thinking of summer '06 road trip: have several questions ...

[han0522]

Medical school hazing -- I suppose it makes some sense -- but very little. Some of it, maybe all of it, is designed to toughen young doctor's psyches -- but I still wonder at the relatively inefficiency of the process. What I would suggest is that you travel for three weeks and sleep for the other three...

I would suggest you fly to Phoenix, make a three week cruise around Arizona, Utah, Colorado & New Mexico and fly home again.

Mark

Thanks for the response.

I've not considered the idea of flying in until reading your post. A quick glance through Travelocity looks like flying in and back would cost roughly $200, with car rental costs around $600. So, without tax (and whatever else I'm forgetting), it looks like +$800 for flying in. So, for $800 I'd get 2k miles off driving ...

... the problem (and, I'm sort of thinking out loud here) is that would place a static start and end on the trip. I'm afraid I'd feel hurried, and wouldn't be able to spend extra time at some locations if I wanted to, or even come back early if I needed to, without some sort of penalty. Plus, I've enjoyed driving around AR, the scenery, people, etc., and I was hoping I'd enjoy the same while driving through OK and TX.

I don't know. I appreciate your reply and will continue to think through all the different options. Flying in certainly has its benefits, but I'm thinking the costs might be too much.

Again, thanks!

-Chris

[Mark Sedenquist]

... the problem (and, I'm sort of thinking out loud here) is that would place a static start and end on the trip. I'm afraid I'd feel hurried, and wouldn't be able to spend extra time at some locations if I wanted to, or even come back early if I needed to, without some sort of penalty. Plus, I've enjoyed driving around AR, the scenery, people, etc., and I was hoping I'd enjoy the same while driving through OK and TX.

Chris, OK -- as long as we have now identified your preferences -- I much prefer and recommend the Mosey Style whenever possible, (here are some other popular styles). So I would now suggest that you limit this trip to exclusively Oklahoma and Texas. Both states have more than enough amazing places to explore than you have time for. Save the rest of the west for another time.

The site I use whenever I have some "free time" for Texas Exploration is this one. And you can follow a goodly chunk of historic Route 66 as well!

Mark

[Utahtea]

... but trying to squeeze in the entire west (west of the Mississippi) is far too much and I'd probably feel hurried, so you're right, I'd be better off focusing a little more. I guess I could make WA and OR its own trip at some later date, but, gosh, to be that close (and close is, of course, relative compared to Arkansas) ...

Yes, there is a lot worth seeing in California, Washington and Oregon but I think you would be so much better off saving them for another trip. If you can spare the 4 weeks, I'd shoot for that time frame.

Late May will be your best time to start this trip to avoid the heat in AZ & Utah. Also the crowds won't be as bad this time of the year...so the earlier you start on this trip, the better.

Utahtea

[han0522]

I wanted to ask one other thing:

I loved the wildlife in Yellowstone and I'm wondering whether wildlife "viewing" is possible (that is, wildlife is around) in the national parks in CA, AZ, UT, CO, NM. This is probably a dumb question, but I thought I'd ask anyway!

-Chris

[Midwest Michael]

Certainly there is the chance of seeing wildlife at pretty much any national park. Of course wildlife is wild, so what and how much wildlife you actual see during a visit is simply a matter of luck.

[han0522]

Maybe you shouldn't go as far west as you planned. Maybe keep it to Arizona as the farthest point west & Utah as the farthest point north. There are so many national parks and national monuments in these two states alone!

I-40 is a nice drive. Just west of Albuquerque is Petroglyphs National Monument. From Gallup, NM you might go north a little on 491 then take Hwy 264 to Window Rock, AZ and on to Ganado. See the Hubbell Trading Post National Historic Site before heading north on Hwy 191 to Canyon de Chelly National Monument. There is a really nice campground set in Cottonwood trees. Best part is this campground is FREE! Take one of the guide tours into the canyon.

From here make your way north to Monument Valley before going to the Grand Canyon. The go north to Lake Powell , Zion National Park (two nice campgrounds) and Bryce National Park (two nice campgrounds one, you have to have reservations). Work your way up north on scenic Hwy 12 to Torrey and Capitol Reef National Park and the Fruita Campgrounds is one of our favorites. From here make your way to Moab, Utah where you will find Canyonlands & Arches National Park and tons of other places to see. From Moab make sure you take scenic Hwy 128 back up to I-70. Colorado National Monument is near Grand Junction Colorado (nice campground). From Grand Junction head south on Hwy 50 to Montrose and near by Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park (nice campground). From there head south on Hwy 550 (the Million Dollar Highway) through Ouray & Silverton to Durango. Make a side trip to Mesa Verde National Park and Morfield Campground is another one of our favorites. From here you can make your way down to Farmington, NM and Chaco Culture National Historic Park which has a campground but we've never stayed there.

If you still have time you can make your way down to Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM & Guadalupe National Parks, TX.

Here are a few good links
http://www.desertusa.com/park.html
http://www.americansouthwest.net/

Utahtea

Thanks Utahtea, Editor, and Midwest Michael for your help and comments.

It seems like mid-May is the best time to set out. I'm planning on a 3-5 week excursion, wanting to hit the major National and State parks as well as camp along the way.

What I'm thinking right now:

May 15: Leave Little Rock, AR
May 18: Arrive in the Grand Canyon. Spend 2-3 days
Drive to Sequoia NP (spending one night between GC and Sequoia, perhaps at a motel/hotel for the hot shower, maybe). Spend 2 days at Sequoia.
Drive to Hoover Dam, camping nearby.
Drive to Zion NP or Bryce NP and camp 2 days (not sure which, suggestions?)
Drive to and camp at Canyonlands for 1-2 days.
Drive through Arches NP and stop at Colorado Nat'l Mon.
Continue on to Rocky Mtn Natl Park, camp there 2-3 days.
....

This is as far as I've gotten. I'm still "researching" scenic areas in CO, but ultimately, after this, I'll drive to NM, spend a few days there, and then drive back to Little Rock, AR.

(Thanks Utahtea for the excellent suggestions quoted and the links provided; I'm still going through them!)

I'd like comments/criticisms on the above first draft of my agenda. Also, I'm trying to decide on the South or the North rim at the Grand Canyon. There's a 200-mile drive between them, so I'm thinking I'll want to choose either one or the other. I've never been to the Grand Canyon, so I'm thinking South since it seems like it has more of the "touristy" stuff. But according to Utahtea's link the North is more peaceful and maybe more scenic?

My next question is about Sequoia. Of the National Parks that I want to see on this trip, Sequoia is among the top of the list; however, I realize that I'm driving a good distance just for this area; is this a bad idea? Is Sequoia worth the 1-2 days of driving? If it's a scenic drive with good stops on the way (not researched it yet), I'd be inclined to say it is, but I definitely want to hear everyone's opinion.

I'm stuck between Zion NP and Bryce. Perhaps I should add a day or so and stay in both?

Is the Durango area a must-see for CO? I've heard others say so, but, again, wanted to hear other's opinions.

As always, I really appreciate the comments and suggestions.

Certainly there is the chance of seeing wildlife at pretty much any national park. Of course wildlife is wild, so what and how much wildlife you actual see during a visit is simply a matter of luck.

Makes sense.

-Chris

[Troy McClure]

I can only ad what I know. I have been to Bryce and Zion Natl parks in Utah, and both are real good. I liked Bryce better of the two. I hear, and this has been mixed reviews, that The Grand Canyon, while beautiful is one of those places people should see, but unless you are hiking down below the rim (nasty in summer) then it isn't one of the best bangs for the buck. Southern Colorado is nice. I really liked Sand Dunes Nat'l Monument.

Other Natl parks that I think need mentioning, even if it makes your decision harder, include Yosemite-Simply Amazing. Also has Sequias in a few areas of the park. Olympic Natl Park, one of the best I have been to, Equally as impressive as Yellowstone/Teton. Mt. Rainier is also amazing!

Keep in mind that Most places far south will be very dry, even in June and I find it saps my energy and when combined with sun and/or elevation, a lot of people find they need a mid-day nap...especially when driving a great deal.

Sunglasses, Sunblock and lib balm!

Good luck!!!

[Utahtea]

It seems like mid-May is the best time to set out. I'm planning on a 3-5 week excursion, wanting to hit the major National and State parks as well as camp along the way.

What I'm thinking right now:

May 15: Leave Little Rock, AR
May 18: Arrive in the Grand Canyon. Spend 2-3 days
Drive to Sequoia NP (spending one night between GC and Sequoia, perhaps at a motel/hotel for the hot shower, maybe). Spend 2 days at Sequoia.
Drive to Hoover Dam, camping nearby.
Drive to Zion NP or Bryce NP and camp 2 days (not sure which, suggestions?)
Drive to and camp at Canyonlands for 1-2 days.
Drive through Arches NP and stop at Colorado Nat'l Mon.
Continue on to Rocky Mtn Natl Park, camp there 2-3 days.
....

This is as far as I've gotten. I'm still "researching" scenic areas in CO, but ultimately, after this, I'll drive to NM, spend a few days there, and then drive back to Little Rock, AR.

(Thanks Utahtea for the excellent suggestions quoted and the links provided; I'm still going through them!)

I'd like comments/criticisms on the above first draft of my agenda. Also, I'm trying to decide on the South or the North rim at the Grand Canyon. There's a 200-mile drive between them, so I'm thinking I'll want to choose either one or the other. I've never been to the Grand Canyon, so I'm thinking South since it seems like it has more of the "touristy" stuff. But according to Utahtea's link the North is more peaceful and maybe more scenic?

My next question is about Sequoia. Of the National Parks that I want to see on this trip, Sequoia is among the top of the list; however, I realize that I'm driving a good distance just for this area; is this a bad idea? Is Sequoia worth the 1-2 days of driving? If it's a scenic drive with good stops on the way (not researched it yet), I'd be inclined to say it is, but I definitely want to hear everyone's opinion.

I'm stuck between Zion NP and Bryce. Perhaps I should add a day or so and stay in both?

Is the Durango area a must-see for CO? I've heard others say so, but, again, wanted to hear other's opinions.

Got another link for you! http://www.so-utah.com/

I think the S. Rim, Grand Canyon has the better views. It will have more crowds and it will NOT be a place to be over the Memorial Day weekend!!!!

Two days at the S. Rim Grand Canyon will be plenty, unless you hike down to the bottom and spend a night. You will need reservations to stay at Phatom Ranch at the bottom. I think two nights, one full day is enough for the N. Rim.

Sequoia is 624 miles from the S. Rim of the Grand Canyon and then another 560 miles back to Zion. Maybe it's just because I've seen so many giant sequoia's in my lifetime, but I really don't think this would be worth it this trip. Maybe save Sequioa and Yosemite for another trip.

Instead of the Hoover Dam, check out the Glen Canyon dam in Page, AZ at Glen Canyon National Recreational area (Lake Powell)

If you could squeeze enough time, I'd spend two nights in Zion and one night in Bryce. You can leave Zion early one morning and be in Bryce in 2 hours. Both parks have nice campgrounds. If you are going to be at either of these places over Memorial day weekend, then make reservations! When you leave Bryce take scenic hwy 12 to Torrey, Utah and pass Capitol Reef National Park which also has an excellent campground.

Plan at least one day for Canyonlands and one for Arches. You can't drive through Arches. The scenic drive dead ends at Devil's Garden. When you leave Moab, Utah, you will want to take hwy 128 to Cisco, Ut and pick up interstate 70 here. This is a scenic drive that you will not want to miss!

You asked about Durango. If you don't mind back tracking a little from Rocky Mountain National Park , then I'd take the Million Dollar Highway (hwy 550) south from Montrose to Durango. This is a very scenic drive. If you could spare two more nights and one full day, then make it over to Mesa Verde National Park. Morefield campground in the park is very nice.

Have you considered Carlsbad Caverns in southern New Mexico?

Wildlife: Deer in Zion, Bryce & Capitol Reef. Not much in Arches and Canyonlands, unless you count lizards! Rocky Mts will have more.

Utahtea

[han0522]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions Troy McClure and Utahtea.

I can only ad what I know. I have been to Bryce and Zion Natl parks in Utah, and both are real good. I liked Bryce better of the two. I hear, and this has been mixed reviews, that The Grand Canyon, while beautiful is one of those places people should see, but unless you are hiking down below the rim (nasty in summer) then it isn't one of the best bangs for the buck. Southern Colorado is nice. I really liked Sand Dunes Nat'l Monument.

Other Natl parks that I think need mentioning, even if it makes your decision harder, include Yosemite-Simply Amazing. Also has Sequias in a few areas of the park. Olympic Natl Park, one of the best I have been to, Equally as impressive as Yellowstone/Teton. Mt. Rainier is also amazing!

Keep in mind that Most places far south will be very dry, even in June and I find it saps my energy and when combined with sun and/or elevation, a lot of people find they need a mid-day nap...especially when driving a great deal.

Sunglasses, Sunblock and lib balm!

Good luck!!!

Excellent suggestions. I will keep these in mind as I continue planning!

Got another link for you! http://www.so-utah.com/

I think the S. Rim, Grand Canyon has the better views. It will have more crowds and it will NOT be a place to be over the Memorial Day weekend!!!!

Two days at the S. Rim Grand Canyon will be plenty, unless you hike down to the bottom and spend a night. You will need reservations to stay at Phatom Ranch at the bottom. I think two nights, one full day is enough for the N. Rim.

Sequoia is 624 miles from the S. Rim of the Grand Canyon and then another 560 miles back to Zion. Maybe it's just because I've seen so many giant sequoia's in my lifetime, but I really don't think this would be worth it this trip. Maybe save Sequioa and Yosemite for another trip.

Instead of the Hoover Dam, check out the Glen Canyon dam in Page, AZ at Glen Canyon National Recreational area (Lake Powell)

If you could squeeze enough time, I'd spend two nights in Zion and one night in Bryce. You can leave Zion early one morning and be in Bryce in 2 hours. Both parks have nice campgrounds. If you are going to be at either of these places over Memorial day weekend, then make reservations! When you leave Bryce take scenic hwy 12 to Torrey, Utah and pass Capitol Reef National Park which also has an excellent campground.

Plan at least one day for Canyonlands and one for Arches. You can't drive through Arches. The scenic drive dead ends at Devil's Garden. When you leave Moab, Utah, you will want to take hwy 128 to Cisco, Ut and pick up interstate 70 here. This is a scenic drive that you will not want to miss!

You asked about Durango. If you don't mind back tracking a little from Rocky Mountain National Park , then I'd take the Million Dollar Highway (hwy 550) south from Montrose to Durango. This is a very scenic drive. If you could spare two more nights and one full day, then make it over to Mesa Verde National Park. Morefield campground in the park is very nice.

Have you considered Carlsbad Caverns in southern New Mexico?

Wildlife: Deer in Zion, Bryce & Capitol Reef. Not much in Arches and Canyonlands, unless you count lizards! Rocky Mts will have more.

Utahtea

I honestly didn't even think about Memorial Day weekend until I read your post in the other thread. I'll definitely be out of the Grand Canyon by May 26-29, but I need to think about where I need to be during these four days ...

Yeah, Sequoia is a long way. It would add on two strenuous days of driving and I was already feeling uneasy about that; I guess I was needing someone with more experience to tell me that, even though it's an awesome NP, it's not worth the costs. I still need to think through it, but I'm pretty sure I'll cut that portion out and leave it, Yosemite, and everything else CA has to offer to a separate, CA-dedicated trip.

This would also allow some time to camp at the North rim. The problem before was driving from the South Rim -> Sequoia, obviously leaving the North Rim out. But now that might be an option.

Hoover Dam was more of a "Hey, that's on the way to Zion!" type of response :).

It looks like, from my trusty US atlas, that the best way from the Grand Canyon to Zion would be 89 North, probably stopping at Page (I think you mentioned it here and in another thread). However, I think you said to avoid Page, AZ on memorial day as well, so I'll need to plan this carefully. Should Zion also be overrun then? or should I expect any National or State park to be overrun from the 26th to the 29th and just make my reservations appropriately?

Thank you for the CO and NM suggestions. I've honestly not had a chance to look over what I'll want to do in CO, but I'll do that over the weekend and do some searches to answer questions. I think the time saved from potentially removing the Sequoia portion would be best spent in CO. I really enjoyed a vacation a few years back in Colorado Springs and I think I'll have a great time in CO.

-Chris