The 30th Tioga Pass Prognosticator, (TPP). Winter closing 2020

[Mark Sedenquist]

George,

Of course, it would be a rapid climb... That was my point, an aircraft that suddenly loses 25,000 pounds of ballast would rise rapidly and correspondingly lose lift (which could cause it to stall and "fall out of the sky.")

Further the challenges of keeping such a bird aloft in a canyon, filled with wildfire smoke and in the midst of swirling and dangerous winds can be quite significant. What actually happens to both fixed wing and helitankers is an immediate need to drop the nose and INCREASE THE POWER to maintain control and keep the helitanker in the air. Followed by an immediate need (in most cases) to immediately climb to avoid smashing into the mountain ridge dead in front of them.

And this flight action is further complicated by the need to hit the flames they are aiming at. Quite often I have seen pilots drop the nose drastically seconds before a payload release so that they can aim the drop at specific flareups as the helitanker pulls out of the dive.

Mark

[DonnaR57]

Yes, according to my neighbor (another CalFire guy, a firefighter), Cal Fire has police officers on site.


Donna

[Midwest Michael]

Due to the Corona virus pandemic we have decided to skip this years Winter closing contest as it seems the Tioga pass was never truly open. The road is only open to those with visitor permits to enter the park and as of now, it has not been officially declared open at all this year. The last official notification about the status of Tioga pass was for the closure on 19th November 2019.

I hate to disagree with the sheriff, but it seems pretty clear that NPS declared the pass to be open on June 15th. The CalTrans site also lists June 15 as the opening date.

Yes, reservations have been required, but that's required for any and all entry into the park. I also think they may have changed the formatting of the website, moving the historic closing dates to its own page, so perhaps that why you're not seeing any notifications since last November?

It also looks like Yosemite will end the reservation requirement on November 1st.

Since the pass is open, I'd say there will at some point be a closing date and there still is the opportunity for prognostication.....

[Southwest Dave]

Hey Michael.

Yes we did call June 15th in the last comp but it wasn't added to the Historic opening and closing page which is normally our 'Go to' for confirmation. Even though the pass is open, rightly or wrongly we felt it wasn't in the 'True sense' of a normal Roadtrip season for which the competition is designed, plus the uncertainty of whether the Pandemic would close it before the weather. In delaying a decision to run the Comp (plus real world distractions that put it to the back of my mind) I got to the point that starting the Comp this late on would have meant the pass could actually close before the minimum 15 day rule applied. (In truth I just wish I'd posted it up back in early September)

For a bit of fun, if anyone feels like predicting a date just post it up !

Dave.

[Midwest Michael]

No doubt this is an unusual year, and it is hard to say how the pandemic will impact the closing - although the fact that they are ending the reservation system on 11/1 does make it seem like that's less likely to be a factor.

The bigger thing is that it appears the NPS has changed the way it reports the closing/opening dates, even noting that the information has moved - so if you're waiting for the Historical Page to be updated as your only "official" source, then you might have to wait until the following year every year!

[Southwest Dave]

For anyone who is planning to visit the park, this info on Wawona road will be of use to you.

Wawona Road (continuation of Hwy 41) has four-hour closures on weekdays
Wawona Road (Hwy 41) will be closed between Wawona and Glacier Point Road junction (Chinquapin) Monday–Friday, 8 am to noon and 1 pm to 5 pm from October 29 through November 18. If arriving to Yosemite via Hwy 41, use Hwys 49 and 140 to drive to Valley.

Dave.

[tseeb]

I have not visited this site in a while, but saw "Tioga closing this eve through at least Monday" posted in a ski forum and thought I should share it. Good to see that others mentioned that Yosemite (and therefore Tioga) has been open without reservations since Sunday 11/1.

We went to Tahoe four times this Summer. Our first trip was for three nights in June. My family's cabin had not been used since January as City of South Lake Tahoe and Eldorado County were both discouraging visitors with threat of fines. We also went for 4 nights in both mid-July and early August. We got good at bringing multiple ice chests and enough food so we did not have to do much grocery shopping while there. Our last trip was in first half of Sept. when we ended up going a day earlier than planned and staying a day extra for a total stay of 8 nights. We left early due to smoke and very high temps in San Jose, CA area and had smoke on some of the days at Tahoe where we mostly stayed around cabin although I took dogs for some short hikes and got in mountain bike rides most days.

SCU, one of the biggest fires in CA (at the time I think it was the 2nd biggest ever) was East of San Jose and spread into 8 counties, but smoke mostly went away from us. They used Reid Hillview, a General Aviation airport that is about two miles away for fire-fighting helicopters. I rode my bike to the street adjacent to the airport and have a video of a Sky Crane filling it's water tank in 58 seconds followed by a Chinook a minute and a half later filling it's tank in 55 seconds. I think they were taking on 10 tons of water in under a minute. There were quite a few people watching them. Laps to where they delivered what looked like water in video took about 15 minutes.
9978SkyCraneCR2.jpg

[Mark Sedenquist]

Yes, those helitankers are impressive to watch. They often draw an appreciative crowd when they working a fire.

Mark

[tseeb]

I also received an email about Tioga closing this evening and link at https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/conditions.htm says
"Tioga Road (continuation of Highway 120 through the park) and Glacier Point Road will temporarily close on Thursday, November 5, at 6 pm in anticipation of snow. We will evaluate conditions on Monday to see if it's possible to reopen."

Some research found that while Sky Crane (Sikorsky/Erickson S-64) can carry 2500 gallons/10 tons of water, the Chinook only carries 2000 gallons or about 8 tons.

I saved a picture of each helicopter loading and leaving from my 3/4 GB video. I was standing in the wide median of the road and had to hold onto my bike when the Chinook was leaving. I could have been up against the fence, but it did not seem like it would have been as safe.

9979SkyCraneLoading.jpg9979SkyCraneLeaving.jpg9979ChinookLoading.jpg9979ChinookLeaving.jpg

[Southwest Dave]

The pass remains closed up to now with more snow due later in the week so you have to think, could this be it for the season ?

Dave.