Landing in Florida for 4 Month Visit

[troltuu]

I really appreciate the help and I did indeed read the pages.

I will leave the states inside the 90 days and stay in Canada for a month and fly out bypassing the US all together.

Problem is that my flight out of the north american continent is after 4 months. To prove my intention of leaving the US someone from another forum suggestet that I simply could by a Megabus ticket from Buffalo to Toronto - even if I didn't ended up using it - and show some hotel reservations in Canada.

Do you in this forum think this could solve my problem (so I can get back to the much more fun part of planning my awsome 90 days roadtrip through America:-)

Morten

[glc]

No!

General requirements for visa free travel

In order to board a plane or a ship and travel to the United States under the VWP without a visa, the traveler must be in possession of an approved ESTA. They must also be holding a passport which meets the requirements listed above and have a round-trip or through transportation ticket issued by a carrier (e.g., airline or shipping company) that has signed a VWP agreement with the U.S. government, which takes them out of the North American continent within 90 days.

You will either have to go to Canada first, or fly off the continent and then fly back to Canada.

[Lifemagician]

The issue is NOT leaving Canada or the US. The issue in YOUR case is that you will not be allowed to fly to the US without a ticket which shows you leaving the North American continent within 90 days.

Airlines get fined and have to take you back to your departure point if they bring you to the US on a one way ticket. You must have a ticket leaving North America within 90 when you arrive in Miami, no matter what other forums might tell you. Read all the ESTA requirements.

There is no other way!

Lifey

[troltuu]

Hello again.

The other forum really disagree with your take on the issue:

"All the information provided on this forum (by wise people) is that this is NOT correct.

When you catch your Norwegian Air flight to Miami, have the documents with you that you describe, including a (bus, air, sea) ticket out of the US within 90 days, plus your return ticket from Canada to Denmark (no US transit stops) - the fact that it is dated beyond 90 days from your first entry into the US does not disqualify you from VWP entry."

and

"the information that you got on the other forum is just plain wrong. There are two separate requirements, a ticket leaving the US within 90 days and a ticket leaving North America sometime and they have made the mistake of conflating them into one requirement of a ticket leaving North America within 90 days but it is not true and if you read all the ESTA and VWP requirements you will find it nowhere.

Another demonstrable falsehood in the other forum is that all your travel has to be on a carrier that has signed the VWP agreement (to return you at their expense if denied entry) when only the carrier that you use to enter the US has to have signed the VWP agreement. The US Embassy in London has FAQs "Do I have to enter and leave the United States by a participating carrier?
No. You are only required to enter the United States by a participating carrier. Your onward or return journey may be by any mode of transport, provided you hold a return or onward ticket."

The one thing I will suggest is that if you want to cover all potential problems you need to buy your Buffalo to Toronto bus ticket before you arrive in the US, easy on the internet from Greyhound or Megabus (both the US and Canadian Megabuses do that route so check both)"

I'm really getting different advice from both seemingly wellinformed sources.

The way described here would in reality make the US decide how long I could stay in Canada. This doesn't make sense to me

I was entertaining the idea of buying a changable ticket from Vancouver inside the 90 days and then change the flight dates when safely through security - I guess once inside the US no one checks if I leave on the flight I initially stated and instead go overland to Canada - as long of course that I don't overstay the 90 days.

But this type of rule-bending would really be a waste of everybodys time and more expensive.

[DonnaR57]

Honestly, it is difficult at the best of times, to decipher US Code regarding certain things. We are not the law, however, so our information has told the OP several times to go to the embassy or check the embassy site. At least one moderator and one regular have to go through the Visa process to spend time in the US, so they always know who to see and about the current laws. Those links have been given.

We really don't advocate rule-bending or breaking on this website. It's a good way to strand someone and cause them heartache when it doesn't work. We want folks to enjoy the US, seeing it by road, so we always advocate for what's right.


Donna

[Southwest Dave]

In a situation like this all you can really do is read the links that have been posted and any uncertainty you then have, you should contact the relevant Authorities and take it up with them. Yes there may be loopholes, but I wouldn't want to plan and book a trip with any doubt hanging over me. Lifemagician is the most experienced 'long stay' overseas visitor on here and speaks from her own personal experiences. Good luck !

Dave.

[Lifemagician]

What strikes me as most interesting, is that you have not bothered to go to the US embassy/consulate to get your information. It is not as if it will take you days to drive to a consulate in Denmark.

If you go down to post 12 in this thread you will read a copy of what is on the US embassy in Copenhagen website. I suspect you have not shown this to the members of the other forum.

Do as you like, but remember, everything is now on world wide computers. One stroke of a key they have your complete travel history. Chances are you will be flagged by Border Patrol or Homeland Security, and jeopardise the opportunity to return.

I have seen people been questioned and taken aside at the airport on arrival. (Have you never seen these border patrol/security television shows? These are all recorded at ports of arrival, in different countries, including the US.)

But if you think you know better, prefer not to get the information from the US consulate/embassy, or would rather try to get around the rules, it is you who will have to live with the consequences.

An extra thought.

I guess once inside the US no one checks if I leave on the flight I initially stated and instead go overland to Canada - as long of course that I don't overstay the 90 days.

In theory that is true. But should you ever wish to travel to North America again, you will be flagged on the computer as an overstayer. That will apply to both US and Canada. Once you are tagged as an overstayer and a liar, it is hard to convince any border control that you are telling the truth, and to shake off that tag. The computer system records both the date you say you are going to leave and the date on which you actually left the North American continent.

Lifey

[troltuu]

Hello forum.

After buying Rand McNallys Road Atlas and plotting in places we really want to visit we have put together this initial itinerary for our 4 months road trip in the US and Canada that we would love to get some feedback on.

We start with a week in Tampa in early April where we have made a home exchange.
Then we will drive along the coast more or less to New Orleans and then to Texas where we will stay somewhere for a week – we are negotiating a house swap in Houston. The Tampa to Texas part we have appr a week to do. Is there any places in the south worth detouring for on this part ?

After this we will fly to San Francisco where we also have a week with an exchange. From here we will go Coast to coast.
Week 5: Yosemite, Death Valley, Vegas, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley.
Week 6: staying a week somewhere – maybe Salt lake city (is there a better option or could it be worthwhile?) since we are going north to yellow stone.
Week 7: Yellowstone and Mount Rushmore. From here we are not really sure where to go. We would love suggestions.
We are aiming for Chicago where we hope to make an exchange in week 9 but if another more southern route would make a lot more sense we could also safe Chicago for some other time since it has easy access from Europe.
Week 10: Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Atlantic City.
Week 11: New York – hopefully doing an exchange, but NYC is not easy to find swapping partners in.
Week 12: Boston where we already have exchange plans.
Week 13: New Hampshire and Maine until our 90 days in the US are up.
Week 14: Nova Scotia, Canada, 1 week exchange arranged
Week 15: Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa.
Week 16: Toronto (doing an exchange hopefully) and Niagara falls daytrip.
Week 18: Back to reality in Denmark :-)

Since we are travelling with kids (twins of 5 years and a baby) we are not going on very long wilderness walks – sights should be mainly drivable. We love to spend time to know a random community a bit better and to try live the American way of live hence the exchange plans. In this phase we still are very open for suggestions. Also anything kidfriendly. As another poster wrote : “We're interested in history, awesome but affordable waterparks/playgrounds, possibly small age appropriate theme parks. Anything that little kids of that age would find mildly amusing”

Best regards from Copenhagen, Denmark – Morten.

[Midwest Michael]

So you've decided to ignore the advice you've been given above by those who have been there and done that - and are pushing forward with your plan to stay in North America for 4 months, despite the fact that you're legally required to leave the continent within 3 months?

Or are you planning to fly out to Iceland somewhere in the middle as you'd mentioned at one point?

Or did you actually contact the US embassy and get information that contradicts what is written on the websites previously provided - as well as the information that others on this forum have discovered in their research? I'll be honest, I'll be shocked if you're allowed to even board your flight to the US with your current plan, as it is the airlines responsibility to fly you back home if you are found to be in violation of immigration rules and are denied entry (and they certainly don't want to fly you home on their dime).

The plan you laid out looks pretty reasonable, except for that incredibly huge problem that even in the best case, could impact your ability - and your childrens ability - to ever return to the US or Canada.

Edit, BTW: I agree that is seems very strange that the US would care when you leave Canada or any other North American country, but when you look closely at the rules (and what others who have tried to do what you are hoping have actually been told by US immigration), you're setting yourself up for some big problems.

[AZBuck]

Four months is longer than you can be in North America under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). Getting out of the United States (into Canada) in 90 days is insufficient to qualify for the VWP. The following is a direct quote from the website of the US Embassy in Copenhagen:

"In order to board a plane or a ship and travel to the United States under the VWP without a visa, the traveler must be in possession of an approved ESTA. They must also be holding a passport which meets the requirements listed above and have a round-trip or through transportation ticket issued by a carrier (e.g., airline or shipping company) that has signed a VWP agreement with the U.S. government, which takes them out of the North American continent within 90 days." (Emphasis added.)

We have warned you of this before. What information have you gotten, from a source more reliable than the US Embassy, that you can contravene this requirement?

AZBuck