Grand Canyon, Vegas, Yosemite, Yellowstone, and Glacier Road Trip

[doctorcherokee]

Or, actually, I could break that initial mileage up into two days, 900 miles a day. I mean, the 1800 straight provides a lot of flexibility as to where and when I can rest. If I have a destination halfway there, I have to pretty much reach that point to sleep. Truck stops are everywhere and provide good places for naps and/or breaks.

What are the limits on truck drivers? I read something about 11 or 12 hours daily? Is there a mileage limit? I'd be curious to know.

[Midwest Michael]

Truckers in the US are allowed to drive about 11 hours a day, which works out to about 600 miles. Actually, truckers in Europe are actually allowed to drive even less because of the research which shows that your driving abilities and skill start to fall off dramatically after about 8-9 hours on the road.

Your current plan has you driving 50% more per day than what American professional drivers are allowed to drive, and basically double that 8-9 hour guideline for those first two day.

Yes, you have dialed back the most extremely insane of your plans, and we appreciate that. However, you are still laying out a plan that is simply put, dangerous to yourself and others on the road. Saying you'll be safe while doing such a drive is really no different than saying you plan to be safe while driving drunk. If you think that's harsh, well, sometimes reality is.

Like I said, we can't stop you from pushing yourself way beyond what has been shown time and again to be safe, but we do ask that you ask yourself why you think you aren't affected by those biological factors and why you think you can safely do vastly more than what professional drivers are allowed to do.

[AZBuck]

From Wikipedia:

"In the United States, the Hours of Service (HOS) of commercial drivers are regulated by the FederalMotor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers are limited to 11 cumulative hours driving in a 14-hour period, which must then be followed by a rest period of no less than 10 consecutive hours. Drivers employed by carriers in "daily operation" may not drive more than 70 hours within any period of 8 consecutive days."

If you think that you can safely drive 900 miles in 11 hours, or that you are immune to the deleterious effects that these regulations are in force to prevent, or that just because these regulations don't apply to you they have no merit, then you are only deceiving yourself. As Michael pointed out, just because you have taken risks (and put uncounted innocent people at risk) in the past is NO guarantee that you will get away with it again.

And I'm sorry, but relying on your impaired judgement to tell you when your judgement is impaired is simply illogical.

AZBuck

[doctorcherokee]

I hope you two are advising all road tripping motorcyclists not to ride motorcycles...they're very dangerous as well. Sheesh! Anyway, as I said you have certainly caused me to reevaluate parts of my trip, and for that I am grateful.

[Midwest Michael]

Riding a motorcycle responsibly doesn't put other people's lives in danger - Its very sad that you think reckless behavior like driving drunk or driving tired that endangers the lives of everyone else on the road is even comparable.

[Southwest Dave]

I hope you two are advising all road tripping motorcyclists not to ride motorcycles...they're very dangerous as well.

Motor cycles in themselves are not dangerous at all,it's the human element that is, but they are more open to the dangers of the road and at higher risk of serious injury in a collision. Bike accident statistics are commonly related to poor driving as they are not as easily visible at junctions and in blind spots, that risk will increase significantly when you are sharing the road with exhausted, speeding or drunk motorists who are below 100% awareness.

Don't take things personally, we get this a lot here but statistics don't lie. We say what we say with concern for yours and everyone else's safety, wouldn't it be irresponsible if we didn't ?

There is every chance that you will do it and get away with it, but that is exactly what you will be doing "getting away with it", this time anyway. Another thing to consider is how are you going to feel after driving for 32 hours in a 48 hour period, I would say not great and the time you gained will be used up recovering and could leave you playing "catch up" for the rest of your trip.

Try and find another day for this leg of your trip and it will be far more rewarding, and please keep in mind that everybody advising you this has vast experience in travelling long distances during multi day trips and has yours, and everyone else who may read this thread, best interests at heart.

[doctorcherokee]

"Don't take things personally, we get this a lot here but statistics don't lie. We say what we say with concern for yours and everyone else's safety, wouldn't it be irresponsible if we didn't ?"

I can't argue with that. You are right. I did kind of take it personally, because I've ostensibly never been a drunk or irresponsible driver. Never caused a wreck. I've lived a pretty conservative, straight-laced, one could argue "boring" life and generally don't engage in any high-risk behavior. But I realize the statistics are there for fatigued driving, and I know you all have everyone's best interests at heart and are looking at it objectively.

I have already altered parts of my trip quite a bit to get rid of most night driving, and I will see what I can do for the initial drive out there.

As to motorcycles, the human element is always in play, and though they are not inherently more dangerous there are increased risk factors (including many external that you pointed out) that makes them more dangerous and one could argue that it's unwise or imprudent to use them at all on the road. You are risking your life...perhaps not other people's, but it could be argued that it is also reckless behavior. Perhaps just for yourself and whomever might be on the bike with you. The saying goes: "There are two types of motorcycle riders: Those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash."

Again, I am thankful for the advice. You all have been a great help.

[Midwest Michael]

You can certainly call riding a motorcycle dangerous, just as there are lots of other dangerous things out there. Driving without a seatbelt is dangerous, skydiving could be called dangerous, heck, getting into a car in the first place could be called dangerous. You've got every right in the world to do things that might be dangerous.

But the very big difference between something that is dangerous and something that is reckless is that when you are doing something that is reckless you are endangering the lives of others - and that's just not something you'll find any support for on this forum. Especially not when you are trying to make the rather offensive comparison between the two in order to justify your plan that will most certainly be putting other peoples lives at risk.

You still haven't answered the question of why you feel you can safely drive 50% more than what professional drivers are allowed by law to do, but all we can do is hope that you will start to ask yourself that question before embarking on your current plan. The "challenge" as you previously put it of driving these kinds of distances is not worth risking other peoples lives, but I think we've really said all we can say at this point.