Western Parks Road Trip

[Pujsek]

Wonderful tips. Thank you. We decided to leave Grand Teton and Yellowstone for another trip (maybe US-Canadian trip).

I'm almost afraid of the detailed planning. I haven't gotten even close to the details and I've already discovered (or been pointed to) a million different wonderful sights :)

I'll incorporate all of your tips into the itinerary (they are all very beautiful) and try to come up with a preliminary timeline. There's where I'll really need your help.

p.s. I have a side question. Is it possible to get some sort of canyon fatigue or something like that? I know it sounds silly but this year I've been to Cambodia and after three days of non stop exploration of the Angkor Temples I was almost fed up with them. Don't get me wrong. They are really, really spectacular and one of my favorite places I've visited but they can become a little bit tiring.

[Lifemagician]

I'm almost afraid of the detailed planning. I haven't gotten even close to the details and I've already discovered (or been pointed to) a million different wonderful sights :)

No need to be afraid. I have never planned a trip in detail. The important thing is to know what is where (do you have good maps?) and leave yourself fairly flexible. Then when you feel you have seen 'enough' canyons, you will know what else there is in the area, which you might go and see instead. Mind you, sometimes the roads/routes are so spectacular, that they could be regarded as a destination in themselves. Do your research, check the maps, and be sure you know all there is in any given area, even if you only plan to visit one or two of them. Nothing quite so liberating as knowing what the alternative is.

Remember, you are not on a conducted tour. You are free agents. The fact that there are four of you, you might have some different 'must sees' in certain places.

The one thing you need to set in stone is where you would like to stay within the popular national parks. That is not something you can decide at the last minute. But in between all of that, keep yourself flexible so that if you see something which is not on the list/plan, you can explore and find out what it is all about.

Lifey

[Harry Kline]

No need to be afraid. I have never planned a trip in detail. The important thing is to know what is where (do you have good maps?) and leave yourself fairly flexible. Then when you feel you have seen 'enough' canyons, you will know what else there is in the area, which you might go and see instead. Mind you, sometimes the roads/routes are so spectacular, that they could be regarded as a destination in themselves. Do your research, check the maps, and be sure you know all there is in any given area, even if you only plan to visit one or two of them. Nothing quite so liberating as knowing what the alternative is.

Lifey

I agree that the roads you will travel will be spectacular. My wife and I have been to these areas numerous times, and we never tire of the scenery. One point about canyons is that sometimes you drive/hike the canyon floor, and others you are on the rim. The perspective is completely different. I seriously doubt that you will ever get bored or overloaded with what you will see and do on a roadtrip.

I'll even give you an example. Route 9 from La Verkin to Mt Carmel Junction is a public road even though it goes through the southern part of Zion Canyon. That 45 miles is some of the most varied and scenic highway you will ever see, and yet, you really haven't seen the majority of Zion National Park when you drive it. Still, it will amaze you!

I counted between 40 and 50 named sites you will have the opportunity to see on your tentative itinerary, so there are many you will pass without stopping. However, just like the above example, some places don't require hours of exploration to enjoy; merely seeing them is enough.

[Pujsek]

Here is our first rough itinerary:

Day 1: San Francisco to Anthony Chabot Regional Park (37 miles) - camping
Day 2: Anthony Chabot to Yosemite Village (171 miles) - camping
Day 3: Yosemite - camping
Day 4: Yosemite - Mono Lake - Devil's Post Pile - Convict Lake (140 miles) - camping
Day 5: Convict Lake - Mosaic Canyon - Mesquite dunes - Devil's Golf Course - Artist Palette - Zabriskie Point - Hilltop Campground (358 miles) - camping
Day 6: Hilltop - Valley of Fire - Watchman campground (Zion) (215 miles) - camping
Day 7: Zion - camping
Day 8: Zion - North Rim - Vermillion Cliff - Navajo Bridge - Horseshoe Bend - Glen Canyon - Glen Canyon Dam - Page Campground (255 miles) - camping
Day 9: Page - Agathla Peak - Monument Valley (drive through) - Mexican Hat - Gooseneck's State Park - Moki Dugway - Natural Bridges - Blanding (240 miles) - camping
Day 10: Blanding - Arches - Canyonlands - Mesa Verde (271 miles) - camping
Day 11: Mesa Verde - Black Canyon - Curecanti - Poncha Springs (283 miles) - motel
Day 12: Poncha Springs - Pikes Peak - Garden of the Gods - Capulin Volcano (338 miles) - camping
Day 13: Capulin - Ice Caves - El Morro - Gallup (428 miles) - camping
Day 14: Gallup - Petrified Forest - Sedona (208 miles) - camping
Day 15: Sedona - South Rim (135 miles) - camping
Day 16: South Rim - Old Route 66 - Mojave National Preserve (308 miles) - camping
Day 17: Mojave - Joshua Tree (110 miles) - camping
Day 18: Joshua Tree - Sequoia NP (326 miles) - camping
Day 19: Sequoia NP - camping
Day 20: Sequoia - San Francisco (245 miles) - camping
Day 21 - 22: San Francisco - camping

This is a very rough draft which gives us 9 more days to fill. I would appreciate if you could point me to some additional sights along the way and give me some advice about driving times. And also please tell me if you think that some of the drives are simply too long.

[Midwest Michael]

What you do need is more time.

Actually, with the 9 days you have "left," you'll probably be ok, but you've got so many days with 2 days worth of activity packed into one day that you need to start there.

A few of the worst cases, Day 8, seeing the North Rim and driving 255 miles would be a full day all by itself. You want to do that, and see 6 other things. Or day 10, You want to see 3 National Parks and drive 271 miles. One full day just for Arches/Canyonlands is kind of a bare minimum, and Mesa Verde requires guided tours to see the most interesting sites, so that ends up taking most of a day (even if you planned to "see" MV on Day 11, you'd have the same kind of problem the next day.)

Really, you need to take another look at pretty much everything between day 5 and day 13. Nearly all of those days you're planning to drive about 300 miles and see several National Parks or other sites and have to factor in time to set up/tear down camp. None of the drives you have listed by themselves are too long, but if you want to actually see and enjoy all these places you'll be flying by, you need more time to account for that.

[Pujsek]

I crammed a lot of things in certain days (even tough I knew it's too much) because I didn't know how long does it take to see certain places. I also knew that I'll be left with days to fill and you'll be able to advise me on how to properly split the sights between the days.

[Southwest Dave]

I agree with Michael in that you have enough to do, you just need to stretch it out over the time you have. From Zion you should just look at spending a night at, or close to the North rim. Jacob lake is a pretty neat place. Then just head to Page while exploring other attractions on your list for another night. Then you should consider camping at Natural bridges, you won't have time to do everything including Natural bridges and still get to Blanding and will probably need the following morning to explore areas of the park. You should then look at going from Blanding to Arches and Canyonlands where you could easily stay 2 nights, but would need at least 1 night before heading to Mesa Verde during the afternoon of the following day, to explore Mesa Verde the next morning. Then possibly to Black canyon while having time to enjoy the views and mountain towns along the way. From Black canyon you could head to Pikes peak and stay nearby, perhaps at the Garden of the Gods campground. That's as rushed as I would want to be, to ensure you enjoy that section of the trip, but I will let you do the maths and adjust the days how you feel fit and then we can go from there.

[Harry Kline]

It is difficult to assign times to the sites you'll visit, because we all have different ways to see them; some just drive through and others hike out on the trails or climb the formations where allowed. Also, I cannot address the times for Death Valley or Mojave Preserve (never been to either), but I can tell you that you need more time at some I have visited.

Day 8&9: The North Rim has several overlooks and a few rim trails, so a minimum of 3 hours is recommended plus the drive out to it from Jacob Lake, which I recall is about an hour each way. Then it is at least another hour to Navajo Bridge and still another hour to the parking lot for the Horseshoe Bend. Oops, another hour at least to hike out and back. See how the time piles up on you. Believe me, it will fly. I would add a day at Page to visit and tour the dam and possibly take the boat ride down to Horseshoe Bend and back, or go to Antelope Canyon. I would think twice about driving through Monument Valley in a rental. It is all rough dirt road. Either take the Navajo tour, or see what you can from the parking lot, which is quite a bit. You have a full day ahead anyway, so if you take the tour, you need to add a day in there somewhere.

Day 10: Arches and Canyonlands (plus Dead Horse Point State Park, don't miss that) will easily take a full day, so don't sell yourself short on those. If you do have extra time, there are 3 scenic drives to explore outside of the parks.

Day 11 is way too crowded. Mesa Verde takes a full day to see it (a full hour scenic drive each way to get to the mesas from the entrance) Then you have the Million Dollar Highway to go up between Durango and Ridgeway and you won't do that is less than 3 hours once you see the scenery along it. Black Canyon is at least a 3-4 hour stay and then you still have several hours to drive to Poncha Springs. Take 3 days to do and see all of that, and you'll still wish you had more time.

Day 12: Whether you drive up Pikes Peak or take the cog railway, you're looking at a half-day minimum to do it. Garden of the Gods is lots of hiking, and maybe some climbing if you're up to it, so figure 2-3 hours there. Capulin Volcano is another 2 hours, but you say you're camping there. Plan on at least 3 hours drive time between Colorado Springs and Capulin. Extra day needed here.

Day 13: If you start from Capulin early enough, take US64 through Taos. It will take about an hour more than the direct route, but the scenery will be worth it. The Banderas Volcano and Ice Caves will take about 2 hours, as will El Morro. There is some hiking at both sites with rewarding scenery. At El Morro, you actually hike up over the top and back down the other side.

Day 14&15: Petrified Forest is about a 2-hour drive, but add an hour if you want to see petroglyphs and such. If it were me, I would skip Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon even though they are good, and take the Sunset Crater/Wupatki Ruins Loop above Flagstaff, then enter the South Rim via the east gate near Cameron. You have about 6 overlooks along the road that you can actually drive to as opposed to the part beyond GC Village that requires the bus ride . . . Do that the following day and stay for the sunset and afterglow about 20 minutes later. In other words, spend another day at the South Rim.

Okay, I've added about 5 days to your road trip, but I think you've planned it quite well for a rough draft. I know it has been said before, but make sure you calculate drive times based on a 50mph speed to account for stops and traffic. In other words, divide the miles by 50 regardless of the speed limit on the roads you use. I hope this helps in fine tuning the trip, which sounds great!

[Pujsek]

It is difficult to assign times to the sites you'll visit, because we all have different ways to see them; some just drive through and others hike out on the trails or climb the formations where allowed.

This is exactly why I haven't put a lot of effort in the timeline. I would never be able to put it together half this good. Thank you. I will adjust it accordingly.

What is the minimum amount of time you suggest for San Francisco? We will buy the city pass and of course we want to drive over you know what and spend some time in the Golden Gate Recreation area.

[Harry Kline]

What is the minimum amount of time you suggest for San Francisco? We will buy the city pass and of course we want to drive over you know what and spend some time in the Golden Gate Recreation area.

I hope others will join in on this, but I'll start it. Give yourself a minimum of 2 days in the San Francisco area; one for the city, and the other for the Golden Gate Recreation Area. You might want spend the first day in the city just to get acclimated from your trip. You never said your origin city/country, but any overseas travel will produce jet lag. That means 3 days total.

SFO might include:
Ride on the cable cars and a stop at Ghirardelli Square to watch the cars turned around.
Drive down Lomabard Street (the curvy one) and then drive down Filbert Street (the steepest straight one in the city)
Coit Tower on Telegraph Hill
Fishermans Wharf, Pier 39 and the Maritime Park (National Parks Pass will gain free entrance)
Balclutha 3-masted Sailing ship, or other ships to tour
Golden Gate Park
The Presidio waterfront area

The Area north of the Golden Gate Bridge could include:
Vista Point (first exit off the bridge)
Fort Baker
Marin Headlands
Nike Missile Site
Muir Woods
Mt Tamalpais
Shoreline Highway 1
Point Reyes National Seashore
Point Reyes Lighthouse
Drakes Bay & Conservation area
Sir Francis Drake Blvd (inland scenic drive back to Highway 101 from Olema)

Fortunately, the GGRA north of the bridge is very compact, so a day will do very nicely. I provided some links for you, but there are other websites you might want to visit, too. Please understand that this is not a complete guide. You might want to see other places, and very well might exclude some of these.

Harry