Southern California loop - August 2023

[UKCraig]

I stand corrected; it was $110 including tax. But still a tip expected on top of that. Not being funny but I am pretty sure if a restaurant was charging that then they should be expected to pay the server and not me?

Dreadful tasting (to be expected but the options were Jack In The Box, Dennys, Subway, McDonalds or 7-Eleven!), dirty tables, dirty attitude from the servers... outrageous prices (and, yes, three did have milkshakes followed by soda all around).

Ah, hotels. Don't get me started on hotel costs either! :)

[BillyGr]

I stand corrected; it was $110 including tax. But still a tip expected on top of that. Not being funny but I am pretty sure if a restaurant was charging that then they should be expected to pay the server and not me?

That's one of those American things - restaurant servers have always been paid less than most jobs, with the expectation that they will earn more due to tips they get. A few places are now starting to require they receive the same minimum as other jobs, but that is still more unusual than usual.

Denny's can be bad (or good) depending on who is running the specific location, as tends to be the case with most of the chains. I suspect the milkshakes added quite a bit - might be close to $20 for 3 of those in many spots, then probably another $3+ for the sodas (even our local diner, otherwise moderately priced, charges $3.99 for drinks like soda or iced tea these days).

The gas pricing is a California thing (being higher than the rest of the country - as another example, here in the area around Albany NY stations are at $3.999 or lower (there were a couple that bumped up to $4.09 a few weeks ago but have since dropped back - at least one was as low as $3.789 for cash payment). As I understand, California decided to require a specific fuel blend to help with their pollution issues, which makes the higher cost (be it from the actual ingredients or that no one else uses it, thus made in smaller quantities and if one refinery is not able to make it, others can't help out in surrounding regions due to being a different blend).

[UKCraig]

All understandable when the end price is low (even though I disagree with it) but when you are paying $100+ for what equates to fast food? Surely the margins are there to pay your staff properly? Anyway I know this always divides opinion US vs Europe so I will just keep quiet and avoid chains that price themselves out of the market in future.

[glc]

Oh - food for how many people?

[DonnaR57]

Fuel prices....I use Gas Buddy app all the time, here locally and when we travel. Hubby and I don't mind driving an extra mile or two for a significant savings. Several times on our trip, we went a half mile away from the highway to save 30c/gal. Over the years, that's worked A LOT.

Right now, using same Gas Buddy, here in MO, regular unleaded fuel is running $3.33-3.63. In our former residence in the state of California, unleaded regular is running $4.99-$5.49.

Food has gone up, of course, and tipping has become a BIG issue in the US. It seems that everywhere you turn around, some electronic gadget or note is asking for a tip. You don't have any idea, when you tip, who actually sees that tip. Does the serve staff have to share with others? You also have to wonder why there's a tip jar on the counter at a fast-food counter, or why the machine asks you if you want to add a tip at said fast-food counter. I've also noticed that in the last year or two, the pre-chosen amounts on said electronic tip has gone up to 18-20-25% from 15-18-20%. (I almost ALWAYS use Custom Tip).

Lodging -- yes, we'd noted this year that lodging has gone up in price. Also noted that a few establishments had a note from the housekeeping staff which was, of course, on an envelope. I have VERY mixed emotions on that tipping, too, and admit that we've rarely left any monetary tip. Instead, we leave the room in as good a shape as possible to make the housekeeping staff job a little easier -- trash in the trash can, an empty and clean fridge, we don't use the coffeepot, we throw all the dirty towels in one place, and if we've moved anything, we try to move it back. (We often move the motel room coffee maker as we bring our own.) These days, most places only service the room before you check in and after you check out, unless you request it, and most ask you to put the trash can outside the room in the hall if it's full.


Donna

[Mark Sedenquist]

I stand corrected; it was $110 including tax. But still a tip expected on top of that. Not being funny but I am pretty sure if a restaurant was charging that then they should be expected to pay the server and not me?

Craig, in the USA, most servers, bartenders, etc. are paid minimum wage and management assumes that they will make most of their income from tips.

I generally tip 15% to 20% across the board to restaurant servers and bartenders. But I have been known to tip considerably more in certain circumstances.

I almost always tip bathroom attendants and carry a stack of brand-new USD $2 bills for that purpose.

I always tip hotel staff -- room cleaners and others -- Generally I tip every every morning -- rates are dependent on a variety of factors -- but generally I leave two $2 bills on the pillow.

Pre-loaded tips are fine on the devices -- Europe has had the hand-held card chargers for more than three decades - it is only now that the US is finally catching up. I generally don't like my card to go off to the back room with the server -- I prefer to do the tipping and paying at the same time.

This is Labor Day in the USA. I also tip the garbage men, postal workers, delivery drivers, etc., generally anyone who makes my life easier on a day-to-day basis. I don't tip these kind of workers every day -- but every so often.

Mark

[UKCraig]

Until a few years ago (pre kids - when I was able to do things for myself!) I would spend a lot of time with friends who worked in the service industry in the US so I am aware of the ridiculous wage they get (just over $2 an hour IIRC) and the presumption that they will share tips with those behind the scenes, buying the right to wait tables and needing to pay tax on the presumption that tips will be earned. The trade off was said to be lower prices and better service. I obviously cannot judge the former but the latter definitely seemed to be true at the time. I was shocked this time about the huge increases in pricing but also the lack of service and general bad attitude of the wait staff. Now you need to ask what is in it for the customer? The whole system is a nonsense and the only reason that wait staff don't want it to change is that they are on to a good thing with tips vastly outweighing anything that they could ever earn if they were paid correctly and fairly. As I say I think that with prices higher now than the equivalent in Europe there is no excuse for this out of control roundabout.

Other than throwing in to the mix the fact that I was prompted at one point to tip a self service checkout (!!!!!!!!) I will leave the subject well alone now as it is really not the intention of this forum to get in to these debates!

[BillyGr]

Craig, in the USA, most servers, bartenders, etc. are paid minimum wage and management assumes that they will make most of their income from tips.

I generally tip 15% to 20% across the board to restaurant servers and bartenders. But I have been known to tip considerably more in certain circumstances.

I almost always tip bathroom attendants and carry a stack of brand-new USD $2 bills for that purpose.

I always tip hotel staff -- room cleaners and others -- Generally I tip every morning -- rates are dependent on a variety of factors -- but generally I leave two $2 bills on the pillow.

Mark

Interesting idea with the $2 bills. We've done that lately as part of the tip for a local restaurant several times, not trying to but simply because these keep showing up in the mail (those groups that are looking for donations and put in money, half dollars are common as well) - particularly when someone gets 20 requests in one day's mail.

[BillyGr]

Until a few years ago (pre kids - when I was able to do things for myself!) I would spend a lot of time with friends who worked in the service industry in the US so I am aware of the ridiculous wage they get (just over $2 an hour IIRC).

Other than throwing into the mix the fact that I was prompted at one point to tip a self-service checkout (!!!!!!!!)

The wage does vary from state to state - most still have a lower wage than the traditional minimum (but the restaurant has to make up the difference if the tips don't), but there are a few places trying to make the minimum wage equal to what other workers are making. Just hard to know which is which outside of an area someone is in regularly (sometimes even one city will do something different than the rest of the state).

No clue who came up with the ones for self-checkout - almost thinking it's something that is built into the software for card payments (having never had it ask when paying cash anywhere) and for some reason they opt to have one software for all businesses, rather than two separate versions for places where tips would not normally be a factor (like the grocery store in general, self-checkout or not) vs. where they would be (like restaurant served food).

[Mark Sedenquist]

Yeah, this is a departure from what we normally discuss on these trip planning forums, but one more comment about fast food servers. Unlike a server in a traditional restaurant or tavern, because of an alarming lack of interest on the part of entry-level workers to work in fast-food establishments--just about every starting employee earns considerably more than minimum wage.

In fact, new hires at McDonald's, Burger King, and few others make more per hour than US Federal Wildland firefighters. The skill set required to fight wildland fire far exceeds the fitness requirements of the average worker at fast food restaurants + one heck of of a lot technical knowledge about fires, fire behavior and equipment.

So, that's a crazy thing.

I don't have any first-hand knowledge about workers at fast-food restaurants as I generally don't eat at them -- with the exception of Jersey Mikes or other fresh sandwich chains. At those places, 100% of the time my experience is that the staff is friendly, courteous and efficient.

Craig, sorry you found other conditions at the places you and your family ate at.

And, now back to planning road trips!

Mark