North America Trip in 2013

Hello everyone

I wonder if you could help?

Me and my girlfriend are going to be travelling North America for approximately 6-7months starting in July 2013 on a tight budget

We are starting our trip in Chicago and then onto Indianapolis to check out some NASCAR (if it is on)

From there we want to travel to South Dakota to Rapid City and see Mount Rushmore.

From Mount Rushmore we then want to travel to Yellowstone national park.

I am not sure on where to stay, how to stay (camping, etc) and how to get around. I have been thinking about hiring a car to travel around for the time we are there the thing is I am not sure how long you will need to stay at Yellowstone and what there is to see?

After Yellowstone National Park I have found a bus which can take you to Denver, Colorado.

From Denver I was then thinking of flying to San Francisco (due to the distance) and it is relatively cheap.

Obviously be spending a few days in SF and then we want to travel to Yosemite National Park again been thinking about hiring a car to travel California and around Yosemite for the time we are there the thing is I am not sure how long you will need to stay at Yosemite and what there is to see?

From Yosemite we then want to travel California via LA and down to San Diego - not sure what the best/cheapest option would be travelling in California bearing in mind we need to travel to Yosemite. Looking at public transport, looks quite expensive and a lot of travelling around time.

From San Diego we are then going to travel to Las Vegas

While in Vegas we will go and see the Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon

From Vegas will we then fly to Dallas and work our way down to San Antonio (not sure if this is worth doing but would like to) and along to Houston.

From Houston we will then travel to New Orleans

From New Orleans we will then travel to Miami to visit Miami and the Florida Keys.

From Miami we then want to travel to Orlando and do "the parks" and maybe a visit to Daytona Beach

From Florida we then want to travel up to Washington DC

From Washington DC we want to travel to New York

From New York to Boston

From Boston to Niagara Falls and then finish off to Toronto.

We want to see as much as we can and if we can stretch our budget time is not an issue, not sure where to look for cheap accommodation as we are not keeping to dates and most of the hostels requiring advance booking.

Please can I have as much as advice as possible and any helpful information and attractions that should not be missed. We also want to see baseball games, basketball games, american football, etc to make the most of the trip

Thank you in advance

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

A trip of this size and scope is simply too big to offer lots of specific ideas, but there are a few things that I think you should think about as you start to fill out your plans.

First, have you got your visa situation sorted out yet? Getting a long term tourist visa is an unfortuantly complicated process. Even if you get it, typically you are only allowed entry into the US for a maximum of 6 months.

A tight budget and a 6 month trip is a bit of a contradiction in and of itself, but there are some things you should keep in mind to keep costs down. If you rent a car, and that's about the only way you'll be able to get to a lot of places, then you generally are best off keeping a rental as long as possible. Unless you are doing a loop, you'll pay an extra fee every time you drop of a car, and that could quickly add hundreds of dollars or more to your costs.

As to some of the specifics of your outline, your trip is extremely city focused. For example, if you fly from Denver to San Francisco, you'd be going right over some of the most interesting and unique sites and national parks in the world. People spend months just traveling around Colorado and Utah because of how much there is to do there.

I will also note that while Indianapolis is famous for racing, and they do a Nascar race there every year, it is most known for open wheel racing because of the Indy 500. NASCAR is stock car racing, and Daytona is more of the featured track on that circuit, although its very popular, especially in the south.

Finally, finishing your trip in Canada will likely increase your costs rather significantly, especially in regards to airfare and car rental. You'd be best off ending in Chicago, where you started.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben Cann

We are starting our trip in Chicago and then onto Indianapolis to check out some NASCAR (if it is on)

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Although there is one NASCAR Race a year at Indianapolis, Daytona is really the king of NASCAR Tracks and you may want to visit there during your time in Florida. That's not to say the Indianapolis Speedway is not worth a visit. However, it is geared to and famous for open-wheel racing. There is a museum there andi it displays all the cars that have won the Indy 500.

Whoops! I guess Midwest Michael and I were both thinking the same thing at the same time.

Hi Midwest Michael

Thank you for the insight, that is greatly appreciated.

I will be applying for a visa in the next month or so, I have travelled to the US before under the visa waiver programme and I know its completely different procedure.

The budget is going to be approx $18,000-$19,000 between 2 of us and thats for everything, travel, accomodation, food, attractions, etc.

Looking at long term car rental this seems to be very expensive unless you know of a place which offers good deals, even then we will still need to look at places to park, fuel cost, etc.

I was even looking at RV's but again this is very expensive

The trip at the moment is only in the first stage of planning so am open to as many suggestions as possible, I am incrediablly focused on making this "once in a lifetime" as best as it can be.

Thank you

Ben, if you do not yet have your visa, I would attend to that first, before you think of making any more plans. From what we have heard on these forums, it is by no means a given. If you do not have a really good reason - family, work, etc. - don't count on getting one. Most folk have been told it is the VWP or nothing.

On the other hand, $19K for two for six months, including travel costs, renting vehicles, etc. is going to be very very tight. If, and it is a big IF, you get a 6 month visa, I would contact Adventures on Wheels. They give out long term leases which are cheaper than renting.

Lifey

$18,000 is only $100 per day for both of you. Perhaps you could get food (supermarket stuff), a very cheap place to stay (hostel, cheap motel in non-touristy area, campground), and some really inexpensive transportation (bus?), but there'd barely be anything left for attractions. I think you might have a more enjoyable time if you shortened the trip a bit so you can spend more per day and have more flexibility about what you see.

My husband and I just came out of a 4-day, 5-night stay in the Florida Disney parks. Here's roughly what we spent, and there were just 2 of us:

Motel = on property, $130/night (that was a military plan).

Park fees = plan on $280 for a 4-day park hopper, PER PERSON. (We were on a military park promotional that was about half that, but was not available for civilian people.)

Food = this is variable. The motels on property don't feed you any meals. You can buy a dining plan starting at $40/day/person, and that's about right, but it gives you a LOT of food. Can you bring your own food in the parks? Yes. Do people do it? Not usually.

Souvenirs = ouch! Expensive!


Donna

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben Cann

Looking at long term car rental this seems to be very expensive unless you know of a place which offers good deals, even then we will still need to look at places to park, fuel cost, etc.

I was even looking at RV's but again this is very expensive

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RVs are typically far more expensive than car/motel trips.

Renting a car isn't going to be cheap, but the reality is that in many cases, its the only way you can actually get to many places in the US. If you do rent a car, doing lots of little rentals will probably end up costing you more than one big one, unless you do lots of hub-spoke type trips, where you go to a city, rent a car, and explore the area around it, return the car, and then find another mode of transportation to move to your next city.

If you are able to secure a 6 month visa, and I very much agree that the visa needs to be your top priority right now, then purchasing a car might be an option. That's still not going to be cheap, and there are lots of red flags for foreign tourists trying to purchase a car, license, and insurance, but if you can make it work, it could be the most cost effective option for a trip of this length.

Thanks for all the information guys, ideally what kind of money am I looking at in regards to travelling for this length. I think if i really sit down and work stuff out I could raise around $23,000-$25,000.

In regards to getting a bus I dont mind getting public transport and hiring a car in a city is this also a cost effective thing to do but again I dont want to miss out on things I can see while driving but am thinking of costs.

If there was public transport we can sleep on these but with a car we will have to stop and find a place to sleep as I dont think we can sleep in the car in the US as you cant in the UK.

In regards to staying in places is there anyway I could find really cheap hotels or maybe Bed and Breakfasts? Obviously there is the usual big chains but is there any people know locally about?

I am thinking maybe hiring a sleeper van for a lengthy period as I think it will be cheaper than staying at hotel, etc. while travelling Yellowstone, Yosemite, California, etc. What do you think of this idea? Also need to think of fuel costs as well.

Ben

There are relatively inexpensive sleeper vans you can rent, and at least one member I have heard of was satisfied with the arrangement. In fact so much so, he is planning on renting the same for his next trip. As I understand it, these are restricted to the western states. But you can check out all that.

Check out this thread.

But get that visa organised first!

Lifey

For travelling around California and nearby States, you could try one of these camper hybrids from Lost campers'. Small campers are rare in the USA and you won't normally get one way rentals and the other option, an RV, usually work out dearer than a car and Motels when you consider gas and campground fees etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben Cann

In regards to getting a bus I dont mind getting public transport and hiring a car in a city is this also a cost effective thing to do but again I dont want to miss out on things I can see while driving but am thinking of costs.

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One of the most difficult parts of your planning in this regard is that public transportation in the US is generally pretty horrible.

Long distance, Greyhound (bus) and Amtrak (train) are really the only national options, although there are a few others like Megabus that work on a more regional level. Both of those options are pretty limited in where you can go, and they can be very slow methods of transit.

They will work fairly well if you are focusing very heavily on cities, but many national parks and other popular natural areas simply aren't served by mass transit, and you can be looking at many miles from a park to the nearest bus/train stop.

Additionally, with the exceptions of a handful of cities like NY, DC, Chicago, and San Francisco, most city bus systems are really quite challenging, with limited routes, long travel times, and often many connections needed for even short trips if you don't happen to be going exactly the same way the bus routes are lined up.

Once you have your visa all sorted out, and know when you are coming, and for how long, you may like to look into DriveAway. With your limited budget, focus on cities and general wanderlust, this may just suit you. Even if you do it, mixed in with a renting vehicles.

Here's a further explanation. I did this for 13 or so weeks on my first visit and 19 or so weeks on my second visit. In that time I relocated some two dozen cars, drove coast to coast and border to border on a variety of routes, as well as many other routes inbetween. Totalling well over 40K miles. Meanwhile I saw an amazing slice of the USA, and visited places of which I had never even heard.

Check it out... it may just suit you. Feel free to ask any further questions.

Lifey

To be perfectly honest, I think you would be better off if you were to hire one vehicle for a 90 day period under the VWP than you would trying to stretch your budget and rely on combinations of planes, trains, buses and Automobiles over a longer period.

You won't waste lots of time waiting for connections and having to go around the houses to get from 'A to B' by public transport, but you will have the extra money and freedom to go exactly where you want, when you want and have fun. Even if you were to get a 6 month Visa, you could end up seeing more if you stayed within the constraints of your budget including vehicle hire, say for Four and a half months as an example. Perhaps even staying on the east or west coast at the end of your trip for a week or two, with no vehicle and explore a City [or two] in more depth.

We hired an Escape Camper in LA and spent six weeks covering 8000 miles. We are now planning our trip for next year and will be putting the pressure on them for a good deal next year for a 60 or 70 day trip.

Escape Capmers are not RVs but basically a bed on wheels with a little Kitchen area in the back. We love camping so it suited us perfectly. Some nights were in campgrounds and some in RV parks and a few motels when in Las Vegas and LA.

Having the flexability to pay a no milage fee also helped as there were no fees to pay when we dropped it off.

John

Hi Guys

I have now kind of decided on what the best option may now be and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

I have taken on board the less is more approach,as I am now thinking of not spending the full 6 months travelling around the country but more like 4 months and spend the rest of my budget in other countries possibly an "around the world" trip

Will 4 months be sufficent enough to take the route I want to take? I have been looking at Adventures on Wheels and they seem to be the most reasonable on price (because of amount of miles) but as I have never done this before is there alot of campsites/places to shower along the road (the girlfriend insists) and also have to account for the cost of fuel?

I think its best to start the driving of our trip on Denver to tour mount rushmore, yellowstone, all of california, yosemite, etc.

What I am stuck on do I drop the car off in Vegas and fly to Dallas (is Texas worth visting?) and then plane/train/bus it up to Canada via New Orleans/Most of Florida/Washington DC/New York or drive to these destinations up to New York? If so can the journey I want to do be done in that amount time?

Ben

Hello there

I am from the UK and I am going to be hiring a car and travelling around California mid September 2013

We are going to start at San Francisco for a few days and then get the hire car and go to Yosemite National Park, and then I want to drive the Big Sur coastal road and then head towards Las Vegas to do Death Valley, Vegas, Hoover dam and Grand Canyon. (I’m not sure whether to just get a day pass to Hoover dam, GC from Vegas or drive but not sure on parking)

We are going to be camping almost our entire trip (most cost effective) and hiring the camping equipment starting from San Francisco which we will have with us until we reach Vegas. (We can post the equipment back, not sure of there is one locally outdoorsgeek have quoted us for our trip to Yellowstone) if there are any websites for cheap campsites please let me know.

We have a tight budget but we have no time limit so was wondering if there was any advice that can be given and what route to take.

I have been onto to Google maps and roughly planned a kind of route but any help will be appreciated (attached)

We need to finish off in Los Angeles to catch a flight to Peru but for cost it will be more cost effective to get the bus there rather than car hire as we can probably only afford around 2 weeks of car hire.

Thank you

Hi Ben, and Welcome to The Great American RoadTrip Forum.

No doubt you have read quite a bit about this, the most popular route. Two things jump out at me. For one, if you go to Big Sur, after Yosemite, you will be missing the drive over the spectacular Tioga Pass. Secondly you will be zigzagging back to the coast. Unnecessary miles and fuel costs if you are already on a budget.

Has the start in San Francisco been set in concrete? If not, you might consider rearranging your trip to do a loop from LA, which would look something like this....

LA, GC, Hoover Dam, LV, Death Valley, Yosemite, SF and down the coast via Big Sur, to LA. A nice trip for a two week holiday.

This will save you in a one way drop fee, which can be hundreds of dollars. (I am at present looking at a rental from SF to LA, and most have between $250 and $400 one way drop fee.) It will also save on a bus fare for both of you, and be more efficient in fuel. Most companies charge a weekly rate, which is about 5.5 or 6 days of the daily rate.

As for renting camping equipment, I don't know of any places which do this. But recently, driving through the eastern part of the country, I saw front yard posters announcing camping equipment for rent. So it may be worth doing a search.

[Years ago when I drove to AK on a camping trip, I bought my tent, sleeping bag and ground sheet, as well as small stove in a big box store. On my return to LA I sold it all over Craig's List. I advertised it about a week earlier, mentioning the date it would be available. I got almost half my money back.]

Enjoy the planning.

Lifey

Have you now completely scrapped your plans for a larger USA trip?

I'd agree with Lifey that a loop would be a better bet, because it eliminates the zig-zagging and could save you quite a bit of money.

However, even if you are locked into starting in SF, I'd still recommend some changes.

First, It would make much more sense to do the coast highway first, and then head to Yosemite. That would save you a lot of miles, and lets you drive across Tioga Pass, the scenic crossing of the Sierras through Yosemite, on your way to Death Valley.

The other big thing is that I'd drive back to LA from the Grand Canyon. You're going to have to head back to Vegas anyway, and driving directly to LA only adds 200 more miles. That short extra drive, even if you add one extra day to your rental car, is likely going to be cheaper than purchasing additional bus tickets.

Hi Lifey and Midwest

I see your points and that sounds like a really good idea, the reason why we were going to SF first is to spend a few days there 'hire car free' (we are getting the Amtrak from Denver to SF on a separate road trip we are doing but can be changed) then collect the hire the car and onward travel to Yosemite and the Big Sur. We can then drop the car off in Vegas to spend a few days there 'hire car free' and then travel to LA via public transport to catch our flight to Peru.

As we are on a budget we would like to use the car every day and not have it sitting around while we are in the bigger cities we want to do, e.g. SF, Vegas, etc. We want to spend 5 days in SF, 4 days in Yosemite, 5 days in Vegas and finish in LA.

Also not sure if this is maybe too long time in some of the cities and spend a day less and travel to a smaller town.

Was also thinking could start in Vegas hire the car from there and drive to Death Valley, Yosemite via Tioga Pass up to SF down the Big Sur to LA? This way we are not looping and can spend the time making our trip. I also suppose I could off hire the car in SF and then re-hire for a couple of days to do the Big Sur down to LA?

Hope this all makes sense!

Thank you

It will not save you any money turning in a car and re-renting - because you will be paying one more one-way drop fee. In fact, a "loop" may wind up being the cheapest way even if you keep the car while in the cities. I'd look at a LA-LA loop.

I have now decided to do a kind of loop, want to start in Las Vegas and end in LA have looked at costins an it works for us. We are visiting Yosemite and San Fran can you please let me know if there is any roads I should take/places we should go? Thank you Ben

It's only a 5 hour drive to completely close that loop - compare total costs!

Hi glc, have compared total costs (for whole trip) and it actually works out the same cost if not cheaper and a lot easier for us to collect in Vegas and drop off in LA and then we fly out of LAX a few days later. From Vegas-Death Valley-Yosemite-SF-Big Sur-LA is there any route and/or places that shouldn't be missed? Ben

You say time is not so much an issue, but how long do you think you will have for the trip ? Is Grand canyon still on the agenda ?

The pouplar and scenic trip would be 190 across Death valley and 395 to Mono Lake and then the spectacular Tioga Pass [CA120] into Yosemite. After SF spend a few days on CA1, the coast highway on route to LA. A trip to Alcatraz is a highlight of any SF trip. With enough time you could open up many options.

If you were still to head to the GC you could do the 'Grand loop' from Vegas and head into Souther Utah and enjoy Zion NP, possibly Bryce canyon, Monument Valley and Hoover dam to name a few. From Yosemite you could head towards Napa valley, Muir Woods, Point Reyes National seashore and so on, before heading across the Golden Gate Bridge into San Fran.

Once you have figured the basics out we can help fill in the blanks and do a little 'fine tuning'.

Hi Southwest Dave, we are going to be in that area for approx 2-3 weeks. Yes we want to also see the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam. The Grand loop sounds like a good option and I very much like to drive over the golden gate bridge. I will need to come up with a map or list like you say and then fine tune the trip. Thank you for this info it is very very helpful. Regards Ben

Hi guys

I have experimented with a route that I have found from Harry Kline on the website and the advice from Southwest Dave please see attached route and see if this look any good!

Cheers

Ben

Hi Ben, your map is a little small to make out the real detail but it looks like the general idea is good. From Vegas head up I15 to UT9 into Zion NP where you will find the Watchman Camground near the entrance, and within a short walk from the free shuttle buses that take you into the canyon. It's a great park for walking ! It looks as though you have opted for visiting both rims of the GCNP, but before heeading to the North rim you could head to Bryce canyon, the park and the drive are both quite spectacular ! You could then make your way south to the south rim and enter via the east entry kiosk on Desert view drive and leave via the south kiosk through Tusayan. Before arriving at the south rim you could detour to Monument valley and/or stop at Cameron Trading Post. Mather campground at the south rim is pretty cool and only a short walk to the village rim area.

As you take I40 back towards Vegas you could detour onto route 66 through Seligman [quirkey memorabilia stores] to Kingman and stop at the Hoover dam. The Locals route from Vegas into Death valley would be to follow 160 out of Vegas to Pahrump and just north of town take Bell Vista/Ash Meadows road to Death valley junction. Turn right and immediate left onto 190 across DV. Furnace creek is a nice place to stop and a small detour south from here will take you to Badwater Basin, the lowest point in the USA. Just before FC is Zabriske point which is a nice viewpoint just a short walk from the car.

In Yosemite I would stay in one of the 'Pines' campgrounds and as with all the major NP's I would recommend booking asap after the booking window opens.

Hi guys

Me and the girlfriend have finally made the leap and booked our flights to the USA please see below an itinerary of the proposed route and attractions.

We don’t want to be rushing through this trip and are willing to change a few things as we want to get the most of out the trip that we can and see as much as we can but we are on a budget.

Please any information or help would be greatly appreciated and the only thing we have booked at the moment is our hostels in Denver, San Francisco and Las Vegas.

Day 1 – arrive in Denver late afternoon collect hire car (or maybe collect on day 3)
Day 2 – Boulder
Day 3 – Denver
Day 4 – Cave of the winds, Helen Hunt Falls and Royal Gorge Bridge. End in Colorado Springs
Day 5 – Colorado Springs + possibly Cheyenne Zoo
Day 6 – Start trip to Rapid City, Stay in Casper to break up journey
Day 7 – Casper to Hot Springs and Wind Cave National Park and stay in Rapid City
Day 8 – Rapid City, Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse
Day 9 – Rapid City to Yellowstone
Day 10 – Yellowstone
Day 11 – Yellowstone
Day 12 – Yellowstone
Day 13 – Yellowstone
Day 14 – Yellowstone + Grand Teton
Day 15 – Grand Teton
Day 16 – Grand Teton to Cheyenne
Day 17 – Cheyenne to Rocky Mountain National Park
Day 18 – Rocky Mountain National Park
Day 19 – Rocky Mountain back to Denver drop off hire car

Day 20 – Travel to Las Vegas on Bus

Day 21 – Las Vegas
Day 22 – Las Vegas
Day 23 – Las Vegas
Day 24 – Las Vegas collect hire car
Day 25 – Las Vegas to Hoover Dam to Flagstaff
Day 26 – Flagstaff + Sunset Crater
Day 27 – Flagstaff to Wupatki Monument,Desertview watchtower + Grand Canyon Village to Kanab
Day 28 – Kanab to Bryce Canyon then Zion National Park
Day 29 – Zion National Park then to Beatty
Day 30 – Beatty to Death Valley National Park to Yosemite
Day 31 – Yosemite
Day 32 – Yosemite
Day 33 – Yosemite
Day 34 – Yosemite
Day 35 – Yosemite to Napa Valley to Point Reyes
Day 36 – Point Reyes to Muir Woods then San Francisco drop off hire car
Day 37 – San Francisco
Day 38 – San Francisco
Day 39 – San Francisco
Day 40 – San Francisco collect hire car
Day 41 – San Francisco to Big Sur
Day 42 – Big Sur to Los Angeles drop off hire car
Day 43 – Los Angeles
Day 44 – Los Angeles
Day 45 – Los Angeles
Day 46 – Los Angeles
Day 47 – Depart LA in the morning

Thank you very much in advance

Ben

Moderator Note: We really prefer to have one thread per trip, so readers can see exactly what advise you've previously been given, and they can see how your trip has evolved over the course of your planning.

What really stands out to me about your most recent plan is the amount of stopping and starting you are doing.

Renting one car for your trip will likely be much cheaper than renting 3 different cars, even with a 1 way fee, especially when you factor in the extra miles, time, and money for bus fare you are going to add in your trip.

Specifically, you're doing quite a lot of backtracking by going from Yellowstone all the way back to Denver. Your plan would have you completely skipping much of the 4 corners region (Arches, Canyonlands, Mesa Verde, Monument Valley), and backtracking again from Vegas to the Grand Canyon and Zion before Death Valley. You could see a lot more, in less time, by skipping the return trip to Denver.

It should also be noted that LA is very much a city where you'll want to have a car, as it is quite difficult to get around by public transit.

You could find that having four car free days in SF to be counter productive. Many of these companies charge by the week or the month. Often the longer you rent, the cheaper it gets. Depending on which day you arrive, it could also be to your benefit to see what the rate is on different days and at different times of each of those days. Have you put all these alternatives into the search?

Michael is right... it could cost you more (in time and money) all this hopping on and off. Frankly, I still think that all round you could be a lot cheaper off (air fares and car rental), if you did a round trip from Denver. You have the time to head from Denver to Yellowstone, down to California, across to LV and the Grand Canyon, the four courner States and back to Denver.

With forty seven days you have more than the time to do it in a leisurely way.

Lifey

Thanks for the all the advice guys it is greatly appreciated.

I have done a check on car hire for the dates I have requested and stopping and starting the hire car is almost half price the hire company want for a full term and there is a $750 one way drop off fee!!

As the flights have already been booked (as this is part of our round the world trip) we have to finish in L.A to catch our flight to Peru.

Is the time I have given myself in each place enough to see the best of the best and enough time the national parks to all its glory!

Hi Ben. You sure have a great adventure to look forward too !

Theres nothing much wrong with your plans at all and they will work fine, but here are a few thoughts of how you might be able to tweak it a little.

Part 1

I'm not sure if you have any particular reason for going to Boulder on day 2,[or any day] but it would seem to make more sense to go there as part of your onward journey north, or perhaps after RMNP on the way back. You could then spend days 2 and 3 in the Colorado/Manitou Springs area and then make your way to Cheyenne or beyond. I would recommend a visit to the Garden of the Gods in Manitou Springs.

I'm not a fan of using one place as a base when it means out and back journeys like you have in Rapid City that will add miles to your journey. You have to remember that the US is huge and a fine example of this is where you are thinking of staying in Casper to break the journey up to Rapid City. If you are going to Hot Springs and Custer etc, to break the journey up via Casper you are adding an extra 140 miles to your journey. Going up to Rapid City and then back down to Rushmore and then back up to Rapid City will add time when you could do it all while in the Hot Springs/Custer area. Only small things but they can add up and give you less time out of the car exploring and taking in the natural wonders. If you went more direct you might have time to visit Badlands NP.

Coming back I personally would find another night [perhaps one less in Yellowstone] and rather than going back to Cheyenne I would head south to Rock Springs/Flaming Gorge Res and through Steamboat Springs and Grand Lake to RMNP via the spectacular Trail Ridge road, providing it's open. You need to check the status before travelling as it's the highest continous road in the US and winter can blow up there in the summer.

Part 2.

I think you are underestimating the time needed at the National parks of Grand canyon and Zion. I would take a day out of each of the Cities and have more time for the natural wonders. You won't have time to enjoy the GC while travelling from Flagstaff to Kanab and visiting Wupatki. You want at least a full day at the canyon and then to go from Kanab to Bryce to Zion in a day will not let you do justice to either of those two really. You could make it to Zion the same day but would really need to spend a full day there to enjoy it the following day and spend another night. Of course you could also build a detour to Monument valley into the equation. If you are tied down with your bookings in the City I would probably concentrate my time at the GC and leave Sunset Crater and Wupakti and add a day to Zion and spend one less in Yosemite for a better balance.

Beatty to Yosemite valley via Death valley would be a long day with sight seeing, you could either stop in Lee Vining or if spent a second night in Zion you could perhaps end your day at Furnce creek or Stovepipe Wells.

Hi Southwest Dave

Thanks for the info, that all seems like a more sensible idea! We can also re-visit the cities if needed. I have done a spreadsheet of my trip and was wondering if you could have a look at to see if it is achievable without being under too much presuure everyday to get to where we need to go!? I dont know how to upload it on this website so any suggestions would be brilliant

Thank you for your all your help

Ben

The link is - https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5a...HQyS0VCdjJIMlE

Please let me know what you think.

Your trip as a whole will work out OK, but trying to plan hour by hour rarely works. It's good to have the knowledge of whats there, but you might not get to see it all. That's not a bad thing it's just some places you will want to stay at longer and others for not as long. A good example is day 4 where you plan to drive over 200 miles and see 3 attractions, whereas a trip to Cave of the Winds and a tour that could easily make it lunchtime before you leave for the Falls and then a 65 mile journey to Royal Gorge where you need the best part of a day alone to make the journey and expense worth while. Another example is Desert view drive in GC, there are many viewpoints and you could spend most of the morning working your way to the village area, and then you have much more the other side to see going out to Hermits Rest via Shuttle bus.

You also appear to have mapping program times as a guide that do not allow for fuel and food stops, rest breaks or any delays such as congestion and construction. Build an extra 20% travel time into the equation for a little 'wiggle' room.

Other than that, and as previously mentioned a little rushed between Vegas and Beatty I'd say your good to go, nice job !

Although I prefer entering the south rim via the Watchtower, given your time restrictions I would recommend staying in Tusayan near the south entrance and go straight to the village area, up to Hermits rest and then exit along Desertview drive. Williams would possibly be a cheaper option of going that way but Tusayan is the nearest if you can find affordable lodgings. HANG ON !......... If you are camping during this trip why not stay at Mather campground right by the village in the National park ?

Hi Southwest Dave

Wow, that amazing thank you for the input. I will have a play around with the time between Beatty and Vegas as I tried to space it out as even as possible. Also will look at tweaking day 4!

Yes we will be having camping equipment so any tent campgrounds along the route to save us some money would be amazing. If you haver stayed at any you can recommend in the parks would be also very helpful. Bearing in mind I will be travelling with a woman who needs a shower almost everyday!! :-)

Ben

I have also re-tuned it again slightly to see if this is any better!

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5a...0VmYURlakFQR0U

Maybe not the cheapest but here are a few places I have been in an RV and have tent sites and most have facilities but I will leave you to check that out.

Garden of the Gods campground. A nice site that now I have thought about could make a good base to explore Garden of the Gods and Cave of the Winds in the same day and perhaps stay another night and visit Royal Gorge the following.

Rubys Inn is pretty cool and right by the entrance to Bryce canyon.

The National park campgrounds I have stayed at and would recommend [all good value] would be Moraine park [Facilities?] RMNP, Mather campground Grand canyon with showers [I think] The Watchman at Zion. It has flush toilets but not sure about showers. [ 20mins up the road is the Zion River resort which is lovely, though not cheap.] Yosemite has the choice of 3 'Pines' campgrounds in the valley, all in a lovely setting and I believe showers are available to campers at nearby Curry village. [FlushToilets on site?]

We travel out of the main season when it's quieter, but you can expect them to be busy in the main season.

You're looking pretty good ! If you wanted to spend a bit more time in and around Denver you should be able to visit Cave of the Winds on day 5 from Garden of the Gods. So day 4 would be Denver to Royal Gorge to Manitou Springs[?] and day 5, visit the 'Gods' and Wind cave perhaps. They are just along the road from each other and would save a bit of driving in and out of Denver.

Depending on how early you set out and how much time you spend at Badlands, you could consider shortening your journey to Yellowstone the next day by heading on to Spearfish or Sundance instead of staying in Rapid City again. It might be pushing it, but if you stopped over in Sundance and felt good in the morning, you could consider a detour to Devils Tower, but that's the sort of thing you can work out as you go.