Two days in Death Valley

Hi to all at Roadtrip America.

Last year I made my first visit to America. 4 days in New York City followed by 4 days driving around New York State.

This year I am being a bit more adventurous and visiting Southern California and I would be really grateful of any advice regarding a section of my drive. I am leaving Los Angeles on the morning of September 22nd and heading off to Death Valley. I plan to arrive in Las Vegas for the 24th.

The options I am thinking about, with regard to accommodation, are two nights at Panamint Springs, or two nights at Furnace Creek, or one night at each. What would be the best option with regard to seeing as many of the Death Valley highlights as possible? Are there any ‘tour routes’ on the net which will help me avoid criss-crossing the area in a desperate attempt not to miss anything?

I have tried searching back through previous topics on the forum but there is so much information on Death Valley, my brain is now minced! To be honest though, most of the posts cover drive-throughs rather than a more leisurely 2 day meander.

Regards to all.

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

The options I am thinking about, with regard to accommodation, are two nights at Panamint Springs, or two nights at Furnace Creek, or one night at each. What would be the best option with regard to seeing as many of the Death Valley highlights as possible?

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Panamint Springs is great place for a bit of lunch -- the photos in the main room are great and the folks who run the place are very friendly.
http://www.meganedwards.com/Vegasland/DeathValley01.jpg
But my money would always be at Furnace Creek (the Ranch if on a budget) and the Inn if 3-star+ luxury is your idea of travel.

What will you be driving? If you have a SUV (ideally with 4WD) but most importantly with good tires and clearance you can drive to most of the places you would want to go. Do you have any experience with driving off-pavement in deep gravel, sand or on rough roads. If so, I can recommend a dozen drives in the park. But I am reluctant to mention them if you are primarily a hard tarmac driver. This article about the world-famous Sliding Stones deals with a truly awesome drive to the famous and mysterious racetrack playa. I should add that thousands of visitors have a wonderful time each year, driving two-wheel drive vehicles in Death Valley -- much of the park has graded, paved roads and most of the drives are fine for normal vehicle cars. There are also serious 4-WD roads -- If you have never spent much time driving in off-highway conditions, I wouldn't recommend Death Valley as the place to learn. Although I played a role in two off-highway "rescues" last week regarding motorists who failed to excercise due caution on some of those Death Valley roads!

As an introduction to Death Valley I would suggest using the Trona-Wildrose Road over Emigrant Pass -- this is a narrow, twisting road, but it provides glimpses into little-seen canyons and plateaus. Other drives that first day would be the 20-mule team and Artist's Palette. On the second day, after a stop to the Visitor's Center (to check on road conditions, buy the trail map) you can go exploring.

Happy Planning!

Thanks for the reply.

I will take your advice re the accommodation, although I see from their website that we will miss out on the luxury of the Furnace Creek Inn as it doesn't open until October.

As for the vehicle (and I hope there no guffaws of amusement here), it will be a convertible, so no (intentional) off-roading is planned!

Forgive my ignorance (and I will do some research after posting this) but is the Trona-Wildrose Road something I take before or after Panamint Springs? I am actually writing this from work - an oil rig in the UK North Sea - so my reference material is strictly web-based until I get back home in another week's time.

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

Forgive my ignorance (and I will do some research after posting this) but is the Trona-Wildrose Road something I take before or after Panamint Springs? I am actually writing this from work - an oil rig in the UK North Sea - so my reference material is strictly web-based until I get back home in another week's time.

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Sheesh! What is the weather like this time of year? I think I can understand why you are seeking someplace warm!

Since you mentioned Panamint Springs, which most folks have never heard of, I assumed you were aware of the approach roads -- I am assuming that you will be using US-395 north to SR-190 and over the summit in the Darwin Hills? Shortly after leaving the Panamint Springs area, (hmmm -- I don't I think I would take a convertible rental over the Trona Wildrose road) -- so stay on SR-190 and follow that over Towne Pass into Death Valley -- it is a gorgeous, well-paved road. If you want to drive a portion of the Wildrose Road (and I do recommend it) wait until you reach Emigrant campground and turn right (south) on Wildrose Road. You can follow this road all the way to Wildrose Campground and then turn around and re-trace your path. It is great road, but you won't be able to go much faster than 15-25 mph due to the twisty corners.

Mark

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

or after Panamint Springs?

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From the Wildrose Road, you will see the turn-off for Skidoo Ghost town (don't drive that road in your convertible!) but here is an article we did after visiting Skidoo - Death Valley has scores and scores of ghost towns in it.

After you return to SR-190 head on down to Stovepipe Wells (and just before you reach the settlement, take the dirt road "Mosiac Canyon Road" and drive to the parking lot. It is graded, but a little bumpy -- put your car-top up! Take the 20 minute walk into the canyon. It really is a cool little walk and the perfect way to work out those creaks from the mountain driving.

Mark

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

...Are there any ‘tour routes’ on the net which will help me avoid criss-crossing the area in a desperate attempt not to miss anything?

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First, it would take years to see all of Death Valley -- you will have less than 40 hours. Relax, the place is wondrous, magnificient and calming. See what you have time for, and leave the rest of the "hurry" behind. I drove about 500 miles in Death Valley last week over the course of a day and only saw a couple of places.
http://www.roadtripamerica.com/places/scotty01.jpg
The tour at Scotty's is guite charming and the musuem at the Ranch is full of good stuff.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I can tell you that now we are into Spring, April in the middle of the North Sea is much warmer than December!!! Today is a bright and sunny, with reasonable winds (10 knots) and a temperature of 9 deg C (48 deg F). After the winter temperatures and wind chill it seems almost tropical. 

I have to own up and say I know nothing of the area, having picked up on Panamint Springs from threads on the forum. You suggest lunch at Panamint Springs Resort, so how long should I allow for the drive from LA?

You say that it would take years to cover Death Valley and I have only 40 hours. Can I re-phrase my question then please? Considering the time I have, what are the ‘must not miss’ sights on my second day?

Finally (for now!), how long shold I allow for the drive onwards to Las Vegas?

Many Thanks
Trevor

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

I can tell you that now we are into Spring, April in the middle of the North Sea is much warmer than December!!! Today is a bright and sunny, with reasonable winds (10 knots) and a temperature of 9 deg C (48 deg F). After the winter temperatures and wind chill it seems almost tropical.

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Um. Maybe -- 10 knots and 48 degrees F doesn't seem very tropical to me! I have always longed to be in the north Atlantic in late December and seen some of those massive wind-strengthened waves (but I am 110% prone to seasickness so the liklihood of ever being there in person is zero...). But I digress...

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You suggest lunch at Panamint Springs Resort,

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Um, only the owners of that place can get away with calling it a resort. It is a roadside cafe and motel -- quite cute, but nothing on the scale of the nearest true resort -- the Furnace Creek Inn. Since time is of the essence, for your visit, I recommend not using the very scenic approach from Owens Valley (and missing the Panamint Springs "resort". To that end, I would approach Death Valley from the south and Use I-15 to Baker.

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so how long should I allow for the drive from LA?

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Depending where you are starting from in LA, you can reach the southern tip of Death Valley in about four hours.

That first day could be spent in exploring Badwater, Artist's Palette, the Visitor's Center and Zabriskie Point. Over-night at the Ranch. The next day, I would drive out to Stovepipe Wells, do the walk into Mosiac Canyon, maybe a section of Wildrose, drive up to the Ubehebe Crater, Scotty's Castle and then instead of driving out of the park on SR-267 across the Bonnie Claire Flat, I would retrace the path back to Furnace Creek and take SR-190 out to Death Valley Junction. Along the way, be sure to drive the 20-Mule Canyon loop -- it is dirt, but should be OK for your car.

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Finally (for now!), how long shold I allow for the drive onwards to Las Vegas?

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From Furnace Creek to my home in Las Vegas is almost exactly two hours.

The route I would suggest is turn west on State Line Road (from Death Valley Junction) which turns into Ash Meadows Road to SR-160 and then turn south and drive through the town of Pahrump and over to I-15 and Las Vegas.

Have fun!

Mark

I think I have misled you somewhere along the line as I am planning to spend two nights at Furnace Creek, so I am quite happy to take your original suggestion and enter Death Valley via Panamint Springs.

Considering you estimated 4 hours to the southern tip of Death Valley, would I get to Panamint Springs (US-395 & 190) in 5 - 6, or would it take longer? (I drastically underestimated the time to drive from NYC to Elmira, NY, via Woodstock and the Catskills last year...by about 2 hours! It didn't look that far on the map!!!).

That would allow me to do a bit of the Wildrose Road and also the Mosiac Canyon walk in the afternoon en route to Furnace Creek.

The middle day; Badwater, Artist's Palette, the Visitor's Center and Zabriskie Point.

The following morning; Ubehebe Crater, Scotty's Castle, Furnace Creek for lunch then your route to Las vegas inc 20-Mule Canyon.

How does that sound? You know distances and the attractions of each place and I am wondering if there is anything more I can get to see on the middle day?

Regards

Trevor

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

I think I have misled you somewhere along the line as I am planning to spend two nights at Furnace Creek, so I am quite happy to take your original suggestion and enter Death Valley via Panamint Springs.

Considering you estimated 4 hours to the southern tip of Death Valley, would I get to Panamint Springs (US-395 & 190) in 5 - 6, or would it take longer?

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Yes, that would be about right. But now knowing that you have two whole days in Death Valley, I would suggest using some alternative routes to Panamint. Where in Los Angeles will you be starting your drive that day?

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The middle day; Badwater, Artist's Palette, the Visitor's Center and Zabriskie Point.

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I would also add the 20 mule Team trip here.

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The following morning; Ubehebe Crater, Scotty's Castle, Furnace Creek for lunch then your route to Las vegas

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As you drive up Furnace Creek you could take the twisty drive up to Dante's View (if the road has been reopened) and then on to Las Vegas.

Mark

I am staying at a hotel on N Sepulveda Blvd, El Seguno, close to LA International Airport and will check out on the morning of the 22nd. I have looked on Google Maps and planned I-105, I-210 and I-15 to get to US-395.

However, as I said, this will be my first visit to the West Coast so I am totally ignorant of what are the best/most scenic routes to take. Any advice would be appreciated.

I am now booked into the Furnace Creek Ranch for the 22nd and 23rd. My plan is then to arrive in Las Vegas mid afternoon on the 24th.

Trevor

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

I am staying at a hotel close to LA International Airport and will check out on the morning of the 22nd. I have looked on Google Maps and planned I-105, I-210 and I-15 to get to US-395.

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Trevor,

Since you are driving a convertible and looking for a cruise.... This is what I would do... The Century Freeway (I-105) never actually reaches the I-210 in this universe.... but go ahead and take it east to the Harbor Fwy (I-110) and head north through downtown LA, hop briefly on the Golden State Fwy (I-5) to SR-2 and take that all of the way to the I-210 (heading east) and almost immediately get off on SR-2 (again) and follow the Angeles Crest Highway up into the mountains. At the Clear Creek Ranger Station you are going to turn north again on the Angeles Forest Highway and follow that over the crest and down to the Pearlblossom Highway where you will hop back on the freeway at SR-14 headed north. It only looks complicated in text -- in person it will seem logical. If you weren't interested in driving these mountain roads you can reach this point on SR-14 by following I-5 north to SR-14.

Stay on SR-14 as you zoom north through the Antelope Valley (you will now be a parallel course with US-395) Keep going until you pass the road to California City and go another mile or so and turn east on the Randsburg Red Rock Road (this is a short-cut, believe me?) Take a few moments to drive around Randsburg and Johannesburg -- old mining towns -- clawing their way back to life and you will see that you have found US-395.

At this point, you can either follow US-395 up the Indian Wells Valley all the way to SR-190 at Olancha and then east over to Death Valley...

Or you can zip up the Trona Road, past Ridgecrest to SR-178. Just before you reach the Westend Chemical Plant there is a dirt road off to the south with signs for Pinnacles National Monument. It is a cool place for photos -- the Planet of the Apes was filmed here and many. many others. Your convertible can make the trip!

Then you return to SR-178 and keep driving north -- it will appear that you will follow SR-178 all the way to SR-190, but this is an illusion. When you do reach SR-190 turn left a couple of miles for a cool one at the Panamint Springs Cafe and then head for Death Valley.

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I am now booked into the Furnace Creek Ranch for the 22nd and 23rd. My plan is then to arrive in Las Vegas mid afternoon on the 24th.

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Sounds reasonable.

Mark

As one of the crust scratchers of Death Valley, I would like to add Golden canyon & natural bridge to your "places to see" list. The canyon goes on and on, but you can see it a lil bit. Maybe a mile or so.
Zabriske & badwater iare amazing places for sunrise. Both are comparitively closer to Furnace Creek Ranch.
I would also suggest to do the canyons in the afternoon(sun right abv) or eve(amazing colours) to get good pictures.
And the most important "must-do" in Death Valley:Come out at night and look up to the sky. Sky is practically lit up with stars.
Walk on the dunes is good as well(sunset).
Its a shame to do Artist palette drive anytime other than just before sunset. Its just awesome. You can do some slot canyon walk there..
Gorgeous....

Our Editor knows a lot about the area. Just thought would chip in as I'd been there last winter...

Have fun planning!
You are going to one of the best places on earth.

cool

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Originally Posted by cool

As one of the crust scratchers of Death Valley,

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Cool, What is a crust scratcher?

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I would like to add Golden canyon & natural bridge to your "places to see" list.

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Hole-in-the-Wall Canyon is also pretty amazing -- but he won't be able to get any passenger vehicle more than about 1/8th of a mile up that road!

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I would also suggest to do the canyons in the afternoon(sun right abv) or eve(amazing colours) to get good pictures.

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True, but Trevor is a little short of time to do it all.

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And the most important "must-do" in Death Valley:Come out at night and look up to the sky. Sky is practically lit up with stars.

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Absolutely!

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Walk on the dunes is good as well(sunset).

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Hum, that is too much work for me. I have been up on the top of Kelso Dunes twice for Sunset, but it nearly killed me the last time.

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Our Editor knows a lot about the area. Just thought would chip in as I'd been there last winter...

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Thanks, did you see my latest article on the area?

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You are going to one of the best places on earth.

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It may be my favorite place on this earth!

Mark

Mark,
By crust scratchers I just meant scratching the crust...:)
Correct me if I am wrong, though.

I wanted to give trevor some options, just, just in case he could squeeze in some time.

We'd walked only a few hills over the kelso. Tallest point in the dunes: I saw it from far. :)
We were camping in Texas Springs and so a major shower was due in the eve. We'd already done Zabriske(5 am), Ubehebe, Scotty's, Mosaic...Too much driving, too hot of course, we could not go further than where we were on the dunes.

I remember the name "hole-in-the-wall". I could not go there as we did not have a 4wd as well. I meant the "Natural bridge". Just opp to the devil's golf course. I remember driving up some gravel road, but it was similar to the drive to mosaic canyon.

Hope I was clear this time!

Thanks to Trevor and Mark for bringing back instances from my trip. I am enjoying it all over again.
cool

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Originally Posted by cool

Mark,
My crust scratchers are just scratching the crust...:)

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Oh, I see, as in "just scratching the surface"! I thought you were some kind of amateur geologist or something!

Mark

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Originally Posted by Editor

Oh, I see, as in "just scratching the surface"! I thought you were some kind of amateur geologist or something!

Mark

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Oh! I wish I was....

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

I am now booked into the Furnace Creek Ranch for the 22nd and 23rd. My plan is then to arrive in Las Vegas mid afternoon on the 24th.

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Trevor, Since I knew you were coming this way, I drove both approach routes over the last couple of days to check on road conditions. Here are my latest recommendations....

Wildrose Road is open again and while it remains one of my favorite, least-traveled paved roads in the park, having just driven both routes and remembering what a thrill it can be when you approach Death Valley from the west the first time I am going to revise my ealier recommendation. Before that, one tidbit about Wildrose... The section between Wildrose Campground and the Panamint Valley Road that winds down the Wildrose Canyon has a couple of places where the pavement has been eroded away by the springs in the area. But it is all passable for a passenger car. There is a really neat picnic area about half way down the canyon with some old stone works and it is a fun place to explore.

But I had the immense good pleasure to drive CA-190 from US-395 yesterday as the late afternoon sun was producing that "raking light" that we photographers love. It was, in a word, STUNNING and so instead of taking the route through Ridgecrest by the Trona Pinnacles, I would urge you to stay on US-395 and follow the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada Mountains (you will enjoy the route) all the way to the town of Olancha. Along the way you can stop at the Fossil Falls Recreation site (about a mile past Little Lake) pretty amazing lava tubes and lava falls in the area.

At Olanche take CA-190 to the northwest (on your left-hand side you will be driving past the immense Owens Lake). Owens Lake was "drained" by the LA Department of Water and Power to provide drinking water to Los Angeles. What you will see now is an extremely costly effort to "re-water" this ancient lake bed and cut down the immense dust clouds that have formed here in the past few decades.

As soon as you cross the the Talc City Hills you will gain your first glimpses of the majestic Death Valley. Be sure to stop at the Father Crowley Point overlook on the edge of Rainbow Canyon (and take those 15 mph road speeds seriously!) as you wind down to the Panamint Springs Resort. Stop in and have a cup of coffee -- Rosemary is usually there (she acts as the motel desk clerk, bartender, waitress and font of desert lore). Check out the immense burl that forms the bar's countertop. Originally crafted for major casino bar in Lake Tahoe -- get Rosemary to tell you the tale of what it is doing on the edge of Death Valley.

As you cllimb to the top of Towne Pass (4963 feet) keep looking back to the west -- if you have the good fortune to travel this section in late afternoon -- the shadows on the Panamint Dunes are awesome and you may well see some of the fighter planes practicing in Saline Valley to the north.

But wait until you see the effects of the raking light (again in late afternoon) on the Funeral Mountains as you drive through the Devil's Cornfield just east of Stove Pipe Wells. You have to see it to believe it.

So, that is my recommendation for your approach route!

Mark

Thanks for the information and advice Mark...and you too Cool. My personal 'Discovery of America' will take me to San Francisco and northern California next year but after reading both your comments it is obvious that spending just two days in Death Valley is actually an insult to this world famous area.

2008 looks like being scheduled for a longer return visit.

I am actually quite pleased that you have re-routed my entry into Death Valley Mark. When I first looked at this trip I thought the section of CA-190 as it enters Death Valley looked a really stunning drive.

I really want to see as much as I can and there would appear to be several places where sunrise/sunset it the best time of day to experience them. Unfortunately 'several places' divided by two days just doesn't work.....all the more reason for a second visit :-). The enthusiasm and affection Cool

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You are going to one of the best places on earth.

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and you

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It may be my favorite place on this earth!

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show for Death Valley have really got me excited about visiting!

Moving on, if I could, there are a couple of other queries you may be able to help me out with. I plan to take a bus tour of the south rim of the Grand Canyon. Am I better booking in advance via the internet or are bookings (and better deals!) availabe through the hotels -I am staying at the Luxor.

Also, I have a day to drive from Las Vegas back to Los Angeles. I see that the route will take me past the Mojave National Preserve. I know that this is onother place that needs days to do it justice, not hours, but considering I could spend 2 or 3 hours there - is there one thing/place I should see?

Trevor

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

Also, I have a day to drive from Las Vegas back to Los Angeles. I see that the route will take me past the Mojave National Preserve. I know that this is onother place that needs days to do it justice, not hours, but considering I could spend 2 or 3 hours there - is there one thing/place I should see?

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Trevor, I would drive to the Hole-in-the-Wall campground area to see the twisted topography (there was wildfire in the park last year, and I don't know what happened with it) and I would stop by the Kelso Depot -- this is the visitor's center for the park and really well done.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks, I'll certainly take your advice on that.

Just a couple of new points that I have just thought of;

Do you know if we'll still be OK (road condition) to drive the Wildrose Road from Emigrant Campground back up to Wildrose Campground?

Also, we have spoken a lot about the route into Death Valley....but what about the trip from Furnace Creek to Las Vegas? Any suggestions on which way to go and what to see?

Thanks again
Trevor

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Originally Posted by UKTrevor

Do you know if we'll still be OK (road condition) to drive the Wildrose Road from Emigrant Campground back up to Wildrose Campground?

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As a reminder I drove these roads three days ago and suggested that you not use the Wildrose road -- it is perfectly passable but you don't have sufficient time to use this road if it is not going to be the route in.

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Also, we have spoken a lot about the route into Death Valley....but what about the trip from Furnace Creek to Las Vegas? Any suggestions on which way to go and what to see?

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Re-read this thread -- that route suggestion is in there too.

Mark

UKTrevor,
I was reading your thread and I might throw some tidbits in.

You must include Zabriskie Point either in the early morning or early evening. And bring your camera.

Another great place to venture off too and explore is Harmony Borox Ruins. But park the car and get out and head south to the small hills. There are some ruins there worth seeing.

If exiting out of the park, I would highly recommend taking the road south leading too Badwater (I know the road was washed out, but they are in the mode of repairing. Check at the visitor center prior to exiting for road conditions). When you get to the Ashford Mills Ruins, stop and look at the geological features just to the west. You will see a great snap shot of geological time with the water tables. Hint... near this site is a Prehistoric Native American Camp with geoglyphs (Native American Rock Art).

From there, continue south and take the 178. Stop at the passes and you will get some great shots. A little research on this stretch of road can lead to some pretty interesting places to do a quick stop.

It’s tempting to venture on a dirt road on this stretch of highway. If you do not know the desert, nor have the proper gear do not attempt it. You’re still in the hot season and many people stay away from the back country during these months. I can't tell you how many times I have come across passenger cars stuck for days at a time with temperatures above +100.

Basically, enjoy and take many many pictures.


Joel

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Originally Posted by The Desert Drifter

If exiting out of the park, I would highly recommend taking the road south leading too Badwater (I know the road was washed out, but they are in the mode of repairing. Check at the visitor center prior to exiting for road conditions). When you get to the Ashford Mills Ruins, stop and look at the geological features just to the west. You will see a great snap shot of geological time with the water tables. Hint... near this site is a Prehistoric Native American Camp with geoglyphs (Native American Rock Art).

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Joel, Welcome to the Great American RoadTrip Forum -- I have checked with mutual friends and no one has seemed to know where you were were. Someday I would love to learn the "short version" of what has transpired with your various desert exploration web sites.

Anyway, wonderful to have you here as a member!

Mark

Mark,
Thanks for the hearty welcome and looking forward to sharing some of my experiences and adventures here.

Respectfully,
Joel aka, The Desert Drifter

P.S. Spending a lot of time out in Panamint Valley so email if planning to be out there. Maybe we could hook up and I can tell you all about it!!!

Joel,

Thank you for your tips and advice. It certainly seems that Zabriskie Point, of all of Death Valley's points of interest, is a must do. Your advice re the exit route just re-affirms the plans I had - especially about not trying the dirt roads!

Thanks again.

Trevor