San Francisco to Denver

So a couple of weeks ago I was looking at flights and inadvertently managed to press the wrong button. Whilst my bank manager is not very happy it seems silly to let the tickets go to waste so I have been putting together a few ideas over the past few days. Interested to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

Last summer we took the kids on their first roadtrip and feedback from them was that it was too hurried with too little time at some stops so we have tried to slow it down a little with 2 nights or more where possible. Some of the stops have been requested by the kids (13 and 12 years old when the trip comes around) so are non-negotiable (Hard Rock Cafe, frozen custard, Cracker Barrel, Buc-ee's! to name a few) whilst some accommodation has already been booked (most can be cancelled if there is a better suggestion but the 3 nights in the cabin in Montrose CO cannot be changed (and we are looking forward to that in particular anyway!)

Interested to hear of any deviations in routes which don't add spectacularly to the distance (keep in mind the promise to try and slow things down this time) whilst adding to the spectacle or roadside attractions, etc. which we have missed. Interested to hear whether the estimated timeframes listed are achievable and particularly interested to hear thoughts on the final week (the section from Great Sand Dunes NP to the airport in Denver) as really not too sure where is a good place to stay in those locations and ideas for visits?

The Telluride Jazz festival is on whilst we are passing unfortunately and I am presuming that this makes a stop there a no-go? Is it even wise to be in the area? Really not sure of the traffic levels that it would generate?

Would like to have maybe done a jet boat ride someplace but not sure there is any en route? I believe the closest would be Moab and adding that to the journey would open a whole new can of worms I think... best to keep things simple as that would require at least another week to be added. Remember the poor bank manager!!

Final thought: this is obviously based upon the idea that the PCH is fully open by next August. In the unlikely even that it is not then I would be interested to hear of alternative suggestions to get from San Francisco to Furnace Creek which would be of interest to the kids (who have requested to see the ocean again and enjoy some beaches where they can swim in the water).

Sunday 28^th July - Day 1:
Fly London - San Francisco (arrive 13:00)
Overnight accommodation booked: Hotel Caza, Fishermans Wharf

Monday 29^th July - Day 2:
Explore San Francisco on foot
Ride cable car
Cable Car museum junction of Washington St and Mason St? see streetcar.org
Dinner at Hard Rock Cafe
Overnight accommodation booked: Hotel Caza, Fishermans Wharf

Tuesday 30^th July - Day 3:
Lombard Street
Golden Gate Bridge
Drive south to Pinnacles NP
Overnight: Asilomar Conference Grounds, Pacific Grove?

Wednesday 31^st July - Day 4:
Drive toward Monterrey and then head south along the PCH
Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park
McWay Falls
Limekiln State Park
Overnight: Cavalier Oceanfront Hotel, San Simeon?

Thursday 1^st August - Day 5:
Finish driving south along the PCH
Lunch at Morro Bay
Avila Beach / Pismo Beach
Drive toward Death Valley NP and find accommodation en route (total journey time +/- 6.5 hours)
Overnight: Bakersfield? TBC

Friday 2^nd August – Day 6:
Continue drive to Death Valley NP via 395 north to 190
Father Crowleys Overlook – watch for planes on Rainbow Canyon
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

Saturday 3^rd August – Day 7:
Explore Death Valley NP
Mesquite Flat Sand Dunes
Zabriskie Point
Devils Golf Course
Artists Drive / Artists Pallette
Sunset Badwater Basin
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

Sunday 4^th August – Day 8:
Sunrise Dantes View
Free entry to National Parks today – avoid!
Drive to Las Vegas (+/- 2.5 hours)
High Roller ferris wheel?
Las Vegas Sphere (show at 7pm)
Overnight: Staying with relatives south of Las Vegas

Monday 5^th August – Day 9:
Drive to Kingman (+/- 4 hours)
Visit Hoover Dam
Frozen Custard at Culvers!
Overnight Kingman?

Tuesday 6^th August – Day 10:
Drive along old Route 66 to Grand Canyon NP (+/- 3 hours)
Explore Grand Canyon NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Maswik Lodge South

Wednesday 7^th August – Day 11:
Explore Grand Canyon NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Maswik Lodge South

Thursday 8^th August – Day 12:
Drive to Page Az then on to Monument Valley (+/- 6 hours)
Stop at Navajo Bridge and Horseshoe Bend
Overnight: Kayenta?

Friday 9^th August - Day 13:
Monument Valley Tour
Leave MV to the north (via Mexican Hat) and drive toward Mesa Verde (+/- 2.5 hours)
Photo stop at Four Corners Monument
Overnight TBC

Saturday 10^th August – Day 14:
Mesa Verde NP tour
Drive western part of San Juan Skyway via Cortez, Telluride and Ridgway
Note: Telluride Jazz Festival – how does this effect this plan?
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Sunday 11^th August – Day 15:
Ouray Hot Springs
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Monday 12^th August – Day 16:
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Tuesday 13^th August – Day 17:
Head south to Silverton via Million Dollar Highway
Old Hundred Gold Mine Tour and gold Panning
Drive towards Great Sand Dunes NP (TBC whether south to Durango or east via Creede?)
Overnight TBC

Wednesday 14^th August – Day 18:
Colorado Gators Reptile Park?
Great Sand Dunes NP
Royal Gorge Bridge?
Overnight Colorado Springs

Thursday 15th August – Day 19:
Drive up Pikes Peak (reservation required)
Garden of the Gods
Overnight Colorado Springs

Friday 16th August – Day 20:
Breakfast at Cracker Barrel
Drive toward Rocky Mountains NP
Overnight: Near RMNP

Saturday 17th August – Day 21:
Rocky Mountains NP
Overnight: Near RMNP

Sunday 18th August – Day 22:
Drive toward Denver
Stop at Buc-ee’s in Johnstown
San Diego Padres vs Colorado Rockies @ Coors Field 1:10pm
Overnight Denver

Monday 19th August – Day 23:
Explore Denver
Elitch Gardens?
Overnight Denver

Tuesday 20th August – Day 24:
Fly Denver – London (depart 18:35)

Sorry for the long post but needed to brain dump a little as it is going round and round at the moment with so many options open to us!! Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Howdy!

This looks like my knind of Road Trip--with the possible exception of Death Valley in August. Make sure your rental car has serious air conditioning!

One question: you plan to drive "old route 66" from Kingman. You're referring to the road that goes through Peach Springs, correct? (Because that's most definitely the best way to go!)

Rick

Yes, sir! This is the route that Google spews out but we will obviously tweak that to get the best of the run.

Death Valley in August is something to be experienced I think. It was 44 degrees in Joshua Tree last summer and the kids are keen to push themselves a little from that! Last year it was low 30s at the same time of year which is unlikely again I suspect but it is what it is. I know that Dave is very much of the belief that 2 nights there will be too much for them but I am thinking that it is best to have the opportunity to stay indoors with the A/C on full if necessary and use the mornings and evenings to explore if necessary thus two nights give us more opportunity for that.

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

Sunday 4^th August – Day 8:
Sunrise Dantes View
Free entry to National Parks today – avoid!
Drive to Las Vegas (+/- 2.5 hours)
High Roller ferris wheel?
Las Vegas Sphere (show at 7pm)
Overnight: Staying with relatives south of Las Vegas

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Craig, I hope we get to meet your kids and wife this time around? (And, see you, of course.)

The best part of the Sphere is still the outside--In our view. Here is a field report from a recent trip.

And yes, two full days at Death Valley in August sounds heavenly to me.

Mark

Hi Craig.

That looks like a fun filled trip in some awesome surroundings and something to really look forward to!

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Sorry for the long post but needed to brain dump a little as it is going round and round at the moment with so many options open to us!!

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Yeah I remember that feeling well! So many options with a relatively small amount of time. It looks like you're getting there with the planning and when I get a bit more time I will have a longer look and see if I can come up with any suggestions.

Dave who can't wait to get back in the USA!

A couple quick thoughts.

When you're at Mesa Verde, the best and most important parts of the park, like Balcony House, require a guided tour and reservations. Make sure you're factoring that into your plans (it seems like that's a pretty busy day for you).

I think Durango's a pretty nice town - if you have the time and budget for it, consider doing a trip on the narrow gauge railroad, but even seeing the trail itself is pretty neat, although you may have a chance to see it in Silverton too. The Durango Diner is also a great example of a classic American "greasy spoon" breakfast/lunch counter, and also a great spot to try Green Chile, which is a regional specialty.

Great Sand Dunes is a nice detour, but personally, I would skip Royal Gorge. It's really just an over the top and expensive tourist trap, and a rare place I actively suggest that people avoid - I hated it that much!

For Rocky Mountain NP, I believe they are still doing a timed-entry system (they were last time I was there in 2020), so you'll need to get a reservation, with a specific time permitted to enter the park, unless you are staying at lodging right within the park.

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For Rocky Mountain NP, I believe they are still doing a timed-entry system (they were last time I was there in 2020), so you'll need to get a reservation, with a specific time permitted to enter the park, unless you are staying at lodging right within the park.

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https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvis...mit-system.htm

Rocky Mountain National Park (RMNP) will implement a pilot reservation system using timed entry in 2024, beginning on Friday, May 24.

Hi all
Thank you for all the tips and pointers. I have made a few changes to our plan and will continue to work on that to make it flow better. I have visited most of the areas solo in the past so, like last summer's trip, I am using my experience to (hopefully) put together something that the kids will enjoy. The Colorado leg though is different as I have never been there and it is good fun trying to figure out the plan!

I have removed the Royal Gorge part of the trip (saw the negative comments elsewhere when searching other threads!) and added a stop in Durango. Unfortunately there's not time for the trip on the train although it does sound fun.

A pity that RMNP have added the reservations thing; I hope it is not too difficult to get entry tickets for the time we want :s I see that Mesa Verde tours open 14 days ahead so, likewise, I hope that we get what we need there. If not we could always cut out the Page stops, head straight to Monument Valley and do something there in the evening thus freeing up time the next day should we only be able to get those slots. Do you know if the tickets are hard to get? And what would be your recommendations for destinations with 12 and 13 year olds along with two out of shape old farts!

Thank you for the article linked, Mark, very interesting. We may well give the inside of the Sphere a miss then (especially as it will run to several hundred Dollars anyway!) and just see the outside. Any thoughts on the High Roller? We (actually I!) just wanted to make a stop at the Sphere along our route and, unfortunately, I am under instruction that we need then to go straight to Kristina's relatives house for the evening so we'll not be able to say hi this time :(

Craig, I know that this trip seems like a dream to you and everyone else who has checked in, but I'm left feeling a bit uncomfortable. Roughly 2,000 miles over 24 days certainly doesn't sound like much and should be quite doable. I think that what bothers me most is that you plan to stay in 18 different places during those 24 days, with Montrose being the only place where you'll spend more than one two nights. Unpacking every night and repacking every morning is going to get old fast, and the time spent doing so is going to eat into what you have available for everything else.

Just as an example, I'd probably plan to stay one more night in San Francisco, cut out the overnight at Pacific Grove and get to San Simeon and spend three nights there. Anything that has to be 'skipped' to do that can be from the southern portion of that leg and seen from San Simeon. Same with Bakersfield - I'd drop the stop there and do San Simeon to Furnace Creek in one go, etc. The idea would simply be to not have to drive somewhere new each day with everything that entails.

With four people over 24 days, unless you're planning on bringing steamer trunks, you're going to have to devote a day or two to just doing laundry, shopping for food and other sundries. My wife, who does all our bookings when we travel, tells me that about three nights in a rental HOME (AirBnB, VRBO, etc.) is where they start to make economic sense so keep that in mind as well. So maybe the Furnace Creek and Montrose areas for your more extended stays?

In any event, everyone has their own travel style, but the suggestions above seem to fit in with your family's desire for a less harried pace.

AZBuck

Hi AZBuck!
It is such a balance, isn't it! Ideally I'd love for us to have more time at every stop but time and resources are naturally limited so we have to prioritise things. After some discussion amongst the family we agreed that the way we did things last year was not to everyone's cup of taste but that wasn't so much the moving along from hotel to hotel; rather the longer days in the car which inevitably ended up with the kids getting irritable. I also feel that the danger with basing yourself in one spot and then travelling back and forth is that you often cover the same ground multiple times. With this in mind we have tried to identify certain 'destinations' - taking a couple of nights at a time at these locations - and then break up the longest of the drives between them with interesting stops along the way to break the journey or overnight stops where necessary. The suggestion that we drive six-seven hours direct to Death Valley, for example, was met with the demand that we stop somewhere en route (Bakersfield simply being a placeholder for that stop which we would determine on the day depending on how energetic everyone felt - or otherwise!)

We spent several days in San Francisco only last year and we are really only using it as a hopping on point so we are not worried about spending any more time there than it takes to acclimatise a little to the new time zone. Given the very linear nature of the PCH route, and the relative lack of (affordable) accommodation along the way, it seemed that the only realistic option was to stop at either end which leads us to what we have come up with so far. It is indeed a little less than perfect but I cannot see any other way of meeting the criteria of limiting the daily hours in the car, seeing the PCH (which we missed last year), spending time on the beaches at the south of the route, etc. I can look at it again though as I would be more than happy to change that section up a little if it helps the flow. What, would you say, is a realistic timeframe from the Fishermans Wharf area of San Francisco to somewhere in the San Luis Obispo are via the PCH? We'd want to stop at a couple of state parks along the way plus the obligatory pull offs for photos. I am not sure that is a comfortable drive in a single day? If it is then perhaps a change is on the cards there.

We have made some tweaks and changes to other aspects of the trip to try and minimise the number of nights on the move; I just need to get round to writing it up and I will post it but would love to hear the views on the above before I do.

Thank you.

I was going to echo was AZBuck said. You are biting off a lot in a short period. The driving in the mountains will tire you especially after constantly checking in and out of hotels. Going from SW Colorado then to the Dunes then CO springs then RMNP then Denver in a few days? If you have the energy to pull all of this off, good luck. I always think I can do it until I hit the wall. In 2019 I did a trip to Nebraska Sand Hills, Colorado (5 days), drove to the Black Hills area (5 more days), up to North Dakota for Teddy Roosevelt NP and after 14 days I was really tired so I decided to drive back home. Your trip is jam packed for sure.

I love the Royal Gorge Scenic Railroad trip (3 hours). If you do it, do the Vista Dome car. The Royal Gorge park up at the top of the Gorge is not bad for the views but not essential. I like the Mollie Katherine Gold Mine tour (did it twice) in Cripple Creek. Pikes Peak is great. I do agree with you to avoid the longer drives and bite off smaller pieces. Unfortunately you have to change hotels to do that.

Red Bull. Red Bull is your friend in these situations.

That said... I have spoken with the family and suggested we could spend a little more time near the coast and an extra night at the place we stayed at in San Simeon last year (they loved it there!) and, strangely, their resistance to driving non-stop from coast to DV went away.

On that same point it looks like I can rejig a little around the Grand Canyon - Monument Valley - Mesa Verde section too if the longer drives are no longer seen as such an evil. Will give us a full day available at Mesa Verde then to suit whatever tour we can (hopefully) secure during the day. Is there any experience on the different tours within MV here I wonder?

I am interested on whether anyone has previously been to Telluride when one of the festivals has been on? Interested to hear whether it is makes it impossible to visit the town or just a little bit busier than usual?

Thank you for the tip on the Mollie Katherine Gold Mine tour. I will check it out!

Will amend the itinerary and post that up soon.

Thank you for all the info and input so far!!

Just for information - this is a trip that was done by a group from NY State (Scouts and adults, so youth 12-17.999, sometimes a few 18-21 year olds, and 4+ adults who were late 30's-60's) 4 times between 2000 & 2015 (every 0 or 5 ending year).

In all cases, the first (Day 0 into 1) and last (Day 14 into 15) nights were spent in lodging (anywhere from a church to the airport floor one time when the flight got in quite late), the other nights were all camping in the various mentioned parks (2 Nights Sand Dunes, 2 Nights Black Canyon, 2 Nights Mesa Verde, 3 Nights Arches, 1 Night Colorado Monument, 3 Nights Rocky Mountain).

Not to say that you are interested in any of that, just to show that these trips/distances can be done (by a large group, no less) and with the added difficulty of camping vs. hotel stays.

The specific activities come from the 2015 trip (save the Day 1 Pikes Drive, it wasn't open that time as they went around 7/4 and there is a race around that time), those did vary from time to time.

Start Denver (or nearby, such as Aurora) having flown in on Day 0.
Day 1 – Drive to Great Sand Dunes NP (270mi), sometimes with drive up Pikes Peak when available (may change distance).
Day 2 – Hikes in Dunes and Visitor Center
Day 3 – Drive to Black Canyon NP (200mi), visitor Center and tour stops
Day 4 – Hike Black Canyon
Day 5 – Drive to Mesa Verde NP via Ouray and Silverton(120 mi), gold mine tour
Day 6 – Hike to Cliff Dwellings, Visitor Center
Day 7 – Laundry/Showers, Drive to Arches NP (160 Mi)– Visitor Center & Tour Stops
Day 8 – Hiking Fiery Furnace, Landscape, Dark Angel
Day 9 – AM Rafting on Colorado River, PM Drive to Dead Horse Point/Mineral Collecting/Dino tracks
Day 10 – Hike to Delicate Arch (AM), Drive to Colorado National Monument (60 Mi)
Day 11 – Drive to Rocky Mountain NP (270 Mi)
Day 12 – Hike Flattop Mtn. with option for other hikes
Day 13 – Drive Old Road, tour stops, Visitor Center
Day 14 – Hike Long’s Peak (or try to – often still enough ice that you can’t go all the way to the top without ice climber gear). Drive back to Aurora (70 Mi).
Day 15 – Drive to Denver, fly home.

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Originally Posted by BillyGr

Not to say that you are interested in any of that, just to show that these trips/distances can be done (by a large group, no less) and with the added difficulty of camping vs. hotel stays.

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Whoa! That looks like a logistical triumph! I bet all of adults slept REALLY, REALLY, well each night.

Thanks for sharing!

Mark

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

Friday 2^nd August – Day 6:
Continue drive to Death Valley NP via 395 north to 190
Father Crowleys Overlook – watch for planes on Rainbow Canyon
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

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Craig, I think you are referring to "Star Wars Canyon?" You won't see any naval aircraft or anything else (except for the daily helicopter safety bird) flying near Father Crowley's Point after the crash in 2019--A jet fighter crashed -- killing the pilot and injured several visitors who were filming the flyovers. Since that unfortunate event, all such flights have been banned.

Mark

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

What, would you say, is a realistic timeframe from the Fishermans Wharf area of San Francisco to somewhere in the San Luis Obispo are via the PCH? We'd want to stop at a couple of state parks along the way plus the obligatory pull offs for photos. I am not sure that is a comfortable drive in a single day? If it is then perhaps a change is on the cards there.

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Craig,

I would echo some of Buck's thoughts about the busyness of the planned trip. Cutting out sections of the trip and saving them for another time seems prudent to me. These days, Megan and I rarely drive more than four hours on a road trip when we can pull that off. Sometimes, we have to push that to 6-8 hours when we "absolutely" must get someplace.

I recently drove San Francisco down PCH -- it is a slow-going. As a rule of thumb -- you should allow an average speed of 35 mph. Perhaps even slower when you factor in the pull-outs for photos. (This is assuming that you drive at the just the beyond the posted speed limits when you are able to maintain any speed.)

So, a trip from San Francisco to San Luis Obispo could easily take 8-10 hours if you stayed on PCH.

Mark

You're welcome : )

I'm sure they did (or at least tried to, we all know how well sleeping doesn't always work in a tent).

Though you do have to also remember that, as part of the program, the youth are doing a fair amount of the work (aside from driving, obviously).

So, the adults would be doing the activities, but once back to a camp setting, they are primarily setting up their own stuff, while the youth are doing the cooking/cleaning and setting up needed group stuff.

It also helps that the group in question did trips frequently, hiking many times with many of those using full backpacks, and offered those going on these trips special meetings to build up with exercises and such (even doing laps of a track while only breathing through a drinking straw to help simulate the lower oxygen of higher elevations).

Plus, that one of the adults (who could qualify the group for entry under one of those senior passes for the parks by the final trip) who would, when the group did summer camp about a 45-minute drive from home, often ride there (and home) on his bike one day just for fun ;).

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

So a couple of weeks ago I was looking at flights and inadvertently managed to press the wrong button.

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Craig, been thinking ab out this trip a bit more.

Bookings made aside, it seems that you might wish to think a bit more about quality of time spent on the trip and less about wracking up the miles.

With 24 days at your disposal -- perhaps a loop trip beginning and ending in Denver makes more sense. Allowing you and your family more time at some of the attractions in Arizona and Colorado. Since you have booked airfare to San Francisco--maybe one or two days there and then fly to your next road trip area?

Some realities of the timing of this trip:

90% chance of heavy fog all along PCH this time of year.
In the summer months, the central valleys of California exceed 100 degrees F and when that hot air hits the ocean -- heavy fog is the result. It usually clears off by 2pm most days.

Death Valley NP in August is fine for drive-through -- but attempting to visit all of those places in the heat of the day will not be ideal. Spending time in the pool makes more sense.

Your kids hoped-for beach time, might be better served by flying to Orange County and just doing that for a couple of days.

Most of the places you are talking about in Utah & Arizona are going to be hot too. You can certainly do them -- but you need to think about providing plenty of time to cool down at area motels in the pools --to avoid over-stressing your family.

I would skip Death Valley and Las Vegas -- travel that distance by air if you are set on flying to San Francisco.

I love road trips but the schedule you have laid out while possible --doesn't sound all that fun for your kids.

But a loop trip around Utah, Arizona and Colorado seems much more like a memorable road trip full of promise and future memories.

Mark

Thank you all very much for the input; lots to think about indeed!

The problem I have with flying is that the kids want to see everything they missed out on last year (predominantly Death Valley & Grand Canyon) and this kinda got tacked on to the idea of the Colorado trip with the knowledge that this is likely to be the last time we take this sort of holiday due to a) the insane cost of flights and accommodation these days and b) they are getting to the age that they will want to do their own thing rather than going on holiday with us.

Originally the idea was to fly to Vegas, spend a day or so with Kristina's family settling in and then drive to Death Valley before backtracking and proceeding on with the trip largely 'as is'. We allowed 3 weeks for this but, when it came down to booking flights, it was actually cheaper to extend the trip by another 3 days and fly out/back to/from differing airports. With this in mind - right or wrong - we extended the trip to what we have now.

I will certainly look at things again and talk it through with everyone but I suspect that it will be hard to persuade them to drop their expectations of what they want to see so I expect to retain a relatively fast-paced trip of some sort coupled with a good percentage of stays being for multiple nights and, additionally, the option to skip certain destinations or re-route as necessary if and when people become tired and need to slow down.

I understand about the climate however, sadly, without incurring the wrath of the local education authority, I am limited to those dates so I have to mitigate the situation as much as possible and I am under strict instruction to ensure that those stops have a pool wherever it is possible for them to do so. Obviously not always possible (eg Grand Canyon unless staying outside the park) but these things certainly make a difference in the summer months.

As I say, definitely a lot to think about and we will talk it all through again for certain. I suspect that, if anything goes, it will be the places that I would like to visit rather than the places the kids want to see and that is as it should be as this is supposed to be for them whilst our reward comes watching them (hopefully) enjoy the new sights and experiences around them.

A few more things to consider.

Because of that valley heating issue -- you will need to be dressed for cooler weather in San Francisco. Daytime average temps are 14-C in August (foggy) with valley temps in the high 30's.

If San Francisco is a must-go (air flights) you can still drive to southern California -- but I would take the fastest possible routes. Spend a couple of days at the beach. Venice Beach is pretty fun. I have lots of favorite places along the California coast between San Francisco and LA but I think you would still be wisest to use that driving time in Arizona, Utah and Colorado.

From LA -- if you use I-15 -- stop for lunch at Peggy Sue's near Yermo -- and the Calico Ghost Town is also a fun stop.

Bypassing Death Valley and Las Vegas -- you could drive the old US 66 and drive through Oatman.
And don't forget we published an awesome book about road trip drives in Arizona & New Mexico.

And then plan on spending two nights or so at the remaining overnight locations so you can have fun driving and still spending some time walking and exploring the areas you are driving through.

I would be sorry to miss you (again) in Las Vegas -- but making the trip fun for everyone seems like a notable priority.

I understand the stated preferences of your kids -- but they don't (probably) remember the reality of packing and unpacking every day.

I did a 31 day trip from Las Vegas to Saskatchewan & back last June -- 7567 Km -- But I am used to extended drives and I like to drive -- being a passenger that long would be not as ideal.

Mark

If you do San Francisco -- an interesting side trip is the working model of the Bay area.

One more thought about Death Valley. It is one of my all-time favorite places in the USA. You can get a nice overview from driving through -- but all of the places you mentioned requires that one get out of the car and spend a few minutes walking around. 55-c degrees is an interesting novelty -- the first time -- but interest will wane if you try and do it more than once or twice a day. (Don't forget to tell everyone -- AVOID TOUCHING THE OUTSIDE OF THE CAR DOOR)

Anyway, I am sure that this will be a grand adventure.

An alternative to the southern route along the coast -- drive over Sonora Pass. Even in August there will be waterfalls all over the place. And then south on US 395 and over to Death Valley (if you really must drive that much.)

Mark

Wow, great attention to this thread, you'd get away with charging a fortune for this level of personal service! I feel sure that, whatever changes we decide on, Death Valley is non-negotiable from at least two of the others in our party (I'd be disappointed to miss out too!) so I know that will 100% stay. I am aware that I listed some possible destinations there but I am also very much aware of the temperature there so I fully expect to visit one or two and spend the remainder of the time there enjoying the pool... or, more likely, hiding out in the airconditioned cabin relaxing :)

I have never been over Sonora Pass so, if there are any issues with the PCH again next year, or indeed if we decide to skip the PCH, that looks like a good option (particularly as the kids really loved a place where we spent a couple of nights last year just south of Bridgeport...

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Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

And don't forget we published an awesome book about road trip drives in Arizona & New Mexico.

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I have just ordered a copy...!! :)

Another random thought.

If you do drive down some of the California coast -- one of my favorite beach towns is Cayucos. It's not as well-known as Morro Bay -- but there is a really beautiful white sand beach and the pier is fun.

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...-200x300-2.jpg

Thanks for ordering Rick's book -- here is a bit more about it.

There are some unique roads over the Sierra Nevada mountains. One memorable solo trip I did three of them in one day.

Tioga Pass
Sonora Pass
Ebetts Pass (This is my favorite mountain road -- lots of hairpin turns)

Here is a map that shows all of them (22)

Sherman Pass is pretty amazing too.

You mentioned Bakersfield at one point.

I do have a favorite hotel in Bakersfield. It is a historic hotel with great views of the historic downtown area. It is called the Padre Hotel. Originally built in 1928, it is an eight-story Spanish Colonial Revival hotel. It is probably more fun for adults than kids.

Mark

Thanks for the beach tip, I will note that! The map showing the various mountain passes may be useful if we do not run down the PCH and I will revisit that when we talk over the options later.

Bakersfield was going to be a layover when we were originally planning to break the journey from the coast to Death Valley but we have been given the green light for a couple of the days to stretch in to longer 'travel days' in order to improve the flow of the trip and give more time at the more interesting stops.

I was going to write up and post the revised itinerary however there are a raft of new thoughts to run through with the family first now I think! :)

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

I was going to write up and post the revised itinerary however there are a raft of new thoughts to run through with the family first now I think! :)

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Sounds like a good plan!

Mark

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog.../0104_0744.jpg
Morning view -- Yosemite High Country

Okay, here goes, version 2.0! I know that some will say it is perfectly achievable whilst others will say it is still too rushed and I have ignored all the advice. I don't think I have ignored anything that has been posted - I have found it all very useful feedback - and I am pretty pleased with what we have now come up with. I have tried to take in to account as many of the suggestions that I could whilst maintaining the basic shape of the intended route. A few things have gone entirely (such as Pinnacles NP, tour at Monument Valley, the show at the Sphere, Horseshoe Bend/Navajo Bridge, Royal Gorge, Elitch Gardens, etc.) and some sections have been rejigged entirely to give a great time at a particular destination (eg a full day at Mesa Verde to allow us to meld our day to whatever tours may be available to us when I come to book). The number of different overnight stops is down to 14 and, apart from two 'driving days', where the distance to be traversed is more than I would have liked, I think that the distances to be covered are perfectly achievable without grinding everyone in to the ground. If, when we hit the road people start to get a little stressy, I have tried to leave little blocks where we could skip certain visits or 'cut off the corner' in order to slow things down should it prove necessary.

Still interested to hear from anyone who has been to Telluride when the festivals are on (Jazz in this case) but I suspect we will simply show up and see what happens. Interested also on recommendations for accommodation in any of the TBC locations: Monterey, Kingan, Cortez, Durango, Colorado Springs, downtown Denver (possibly near the ball park?) and Estes Park (or another suitable alternative to base ourselves for the RMNP). Either reasonably priced cabins or well-located/fun hotels realistically ideally with pools for the kids.

All we need now is for the PCH to be shut down again after winter does its worst and it'll all need reviewing again but I am sure that we could come up with a revised plan to get us from San Francisco to Death Valley without too much in the way of stress if it comes down to it.

Let me know if there are any other thoughts or suggestions. Thanks all!

Sunday 28th July - Day 1:
Fly London - San Francisco (arrive 13:00)
Overnight accommodation booked: Hotel Caza, Fishermans Wharf

Monday 29th July - Day 2:
Ride cable car to Cable Car museum junction of Washington St and Mason St
Dinner at Hard Rock Cafe
Overnight accommodation booked: Hotel Caza, Fishermans Wharf

Tuesday 30th July - Day 3:
Lombard Street/Filbert Street
Golden Gate Bridge
Drive south to Monterey and relax there for the afternoon (+/- 2.5 hours)
Overnight: Pacific Grove/Monterey

Wednesday 31st July - Day 4:
Head south along the PCH
Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park
McWay Falls overlook
Limekiln State Park?
Overnight: Cavalier Oceanfront Hotel?

Thursday 1st August - Day 5:
Finish driving south along the PCH
Lunch at Morro Bay?
Afternoon at Avila, Cayucos or Pismo Beach
Overnight: Cavalier Oceanfront Hotel?

Friday 2nd August – Day 6:
Travel day: drive to Death Valley NP via Lone Pine (+/- 6.5 hours)
Sunset Badwater Basin
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

Saturday 3rd August – Day 7:
Explore Death Valley NP
Zabriskie Point
Devils Golf Course
Artists Drive / Artists Pallette
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

Sunday 4th August – Day 8:
Sunrise Dantes View
Free entry to National Parks today – avoid!
Drive to Las Vegas (+/- 2.5 hours)
Overnight: Staying with relatives south of Las Vegas

Monday 5th August – Day 9:
Drive to Kingman (+/- 4 hours)
Visit Hoover Dam
Frozen Custard at Culvers!
Overnight: Kingman

Tuesday 6th August – Day 10:
Breakfast at Cracker Barrel!
Drive along old Route 66 to Grand Canyon NP (+/- 3 hours)
Explore Grand Canyon NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Maswik Lodge South

Wednesday 7th August – Day 11:
Explore Grand Canyon NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Maswik Lodge South

Thursday 8th August – Day 12:
Travel day: drive to Cortez (+/- 6 hours)
Stop for lunch at the roadside in Monument Valley
Quick stop at Goosenecks State Park to enjoy view
Photo stop at Four Corners Monument
Overnight: Cortez

Friday 9th August - Day 13:
Mesa Verde NP tour (reservation required)
Overnight: Cortez

Saturday 10th August – Day 14:
Drive western part of San Juan Skyway via Telluride and Ridgway (+/- 4 hours)
Gondola from Telluride to Mountain Village and back?
Note: Telluride Jazz Festival – how does this effect this plan?
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Sunday 11th August – Day 15:
Visit Ouray Hot Springs
Ridgway for lunch?
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Monday 12th August – Day 16:
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

Tuesday 13th August – Day 17:
Head south to Durango via Million Dollar Highway (+/- 4 hours)
Old Hundred Gold Mine Tour and gold Panning in Silverton
Overnight : Durango

Wednesday 14th August – Day 18:
Drive towards Great Sand Dunes NP (+/- 3 hours)
UFO Watch Tower?
Colorado Gators Reptile Park
Great Sand Dunes NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Great Sand Dunes Lodge

Thursday 15th August – Day 19:
Great Sand Dunes NP
Drive onwards to Colorado Springs (+/- 2.5 hours)
Garden of the Gods
Overnight: Colorado Springs

Friday 16th August – Day 20:
Drive up Pikes Peak (reservation required)
Drive to Denver (+/- 2 hours)
Overnight: Denver

Saturday 17th August – Day 21:
Explore Denver
Colorado Rockies vs San Diego Padres at Coors Field (6:10pm)
Overnight: Denver

Sunday 18th August – Day 22:
Drive out toward Rocky Mountain NP via Peak to Peak Highway (+/- 3 hours?)
Overnight: Estes Park?

Monday 19th August – Day 23:
Explore Rocky Mountains NP (reservation required)
Overnight: Estes Park?

Tuesday 20th August – Day 24:
Drive back to Denver Airport (+/- 2 hours)
Stop at Buc-ee’s in Johnstown
Fly Denver – London (depart 18:35)

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I know that some will say it is perfectly achievable whilst others will say it is still too rushed and I have ignored all the advice.

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We all travel differently and at a different pace, that's what makes each trip unique. It's great to get others thoughts, look at it from different angles and go with what works for you and the family. Including everyone (Kids as well) in the planning means they can pat themselves on the back on a job well done but can't blame you if it gets too much! (Win win)

The trip looks perfectly doable to me and you have a good idea of what is comfortable for you as a family now. ;-)

If you're not running too late and have a packed lunch, Goosenecks has sheltered picnic tables with a cool view!

I have no idea of what Telluride might be during the Jazz Festival but it's still a a great drive from Cortez up through Dolores and Rico to Placerville and onto Montrose. Telluride is off CO145 so driving through shouldn't be a problem but it gives you the opportunity to turn off and take a look. Between Durango and the Sand dunes you could do a quick stop at Pagosa Hot springs.

From Pikes peak it doesn't add much time to go from Woodland park north on CO67 through Decker and continue up through Aspen park which is a pleasant drive and (imo) nicer than going back to I-25. If it wasn't for the game at Coors field I would of suggested going towards Estes park and just visit Denver after RMNP. Estes park is a good location unless there are cabins available in the NP(?) around Morraine campground. The walking around the Bear lake area is great and for all levels. If you have time, driving the Trail ridge road is a great adventure!

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If it wasn't for the game at Coors field

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hmmm, this somehow got me to thinking... the struggle with the last few days was all about accommodating the ball game which the kids wanted to get to. What would happen if this was not an option, say it was cancelled, or say they *thought* it was cancelled...? Puts a whole new perspective on the final days I think. I know I am not excessively worried about seeing downtown Denver and I have been to plenty of games in my time. Something to ponder for the weekend I think!

PS look what arrived already. Just got to go out for a bit so not had a proper look but a quick flick through the book and it looks really nicely done. A nice feel and very colourful and inviting. If I'd have seen it on a shelf in a bookstore or in the library I would absolutely have taken it home with me!

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hmmm, this somehow got me to thinking...

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That's why I put it there! Haha. I may have forgotten to book the tickets now it's soldout. I may have booked the wrong tickets and booked a Coors brewery tour in Golden instead but at least it's near Buffalo Bills museum and grave. ;-) All joking aside I know where I would want to spend my time between Denver or RMNP.

Dave

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

Okay, here goes, version 2.0!

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Like Dave mentioned, I think this new plan sound much more like fun and less like a work trip.

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Tuesday 30th July - Day 3:
Lombard Street/Filbert Street
Golden Gate Bridge
Drive south to Monterey and relax there for the afternoon (+/- 2.5 hours)
Overnight: Pacific Grove/Monterey

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My brother, Dan, lives in Aptos and he knows that coast really well. Perhaps he could meet you someplace and explore one of the state parks. Your kids might get a kick out of Steamer Lane.

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Thursday 1st August - Day 5:
Finish driving south along the PCH
Lunch at Morro Bay?
Afternoon at Avila, Cayucos or Pismo Beach
Overnight: Cavalier Oceanfront Hotel?

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My first choice would be the Cayucos Beach Motel – right on the beach.

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Friday 2nd August – Day 6:
Travel day: drive to Death Valley NP via Lone Pine (+/- 6.5 hours)
Sunset Badwater Basin
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

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If CA-190 is open, you wouldn’t go all the way to Lone Pine. Actually if CA-178 is open I would recommend a drive through Panamint Valley—past the Trona Pinnacles—they will seem familiar from all of the sci fi films they have been used for. You do miss that gorgeous road eastward from Father Crowley Point, but Panamint Valley is pretty darn impressive.

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Saturday 3rd August – Day 7:
Explore Death Valley NP
Zabriskie Point
Devils Golf Course
Artists Drive / Artists Pallette
Overnight accommodation booked: Furnace Creek Ranch Cabin

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The Mule Team road is pretty cool too.

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Sunday 4th August – Day 8:
Sunrise Dantes View
Free entry to National Parks today – avoid!
Drive to Las Vegas (+/- 2.5 hours)
Overnight: Staying with relatives south of Las Vegas

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“South of Las Vegas” – where is this? Laughlin? Maybe we could join you for dinner this night?

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Monday 5th August – Day 9:
Drive to Kingman (+/- 4 hours)
Visit Hoover Dam
Frozen Custard at Culvers!
Overnight: Kingman

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I hope you drive the old Route 66 to Oatman on your way to Kingman? The turbine tours at the Dam are the worth the expense if you can fit it in. Or you can park and walk over the bridge for outstanding views.

Tuesday 6th August – Day 10:
Breakfast at Cracker Barrel!
Drive along old Route 66 to Grand Canyon NP (+/- 3 hours)
Explore Grand Canyon NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Maswik Lodge South

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Thursday 8th August – Day 12:
Travel day: drive to Cortez (+/- 6 hours)
Stop for lunch at the roadside in Monument Valley

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Gouldings Hotel has great views for lunch and there is a very cool film museum and trading post there.

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Saturday 10th August – Day 14:
Drive western part of San Juan Skyway via Telluride and Ridgway (+/- 4 hours)
Gondola from Telluride to Mountain Village and back?
Note: Telluride Jazz Festival – how does this effect this plan?
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

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Like Dave, have never been the jazz festival – but I would guess that traffic could be bear.

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Monday 12th August – Day 16:
Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP
Overnight accommodation booked: Montrose Barndominium

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Both of these days have awesome views.

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Sunday 18th August – Day 22:
Drive out toward Rocky Mountain NP via Peak to Peak Highway (+/- 3 hours?)
Overnight: Estes Park?

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Like Dave mentioned – Estes Park is worth seeing – Traffic is a bit of a bear – but views from the Stanley Hotel (maybe lunch) are great.

Looking forward to seeing your photos.

Mark

Here is bit more about the Hoover Dam bridge on the day it opened.

--> When Dave and Lezli visited we had amazing views. (see below)

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...omm_Bridge.jpg
February 20, 2019, David Gomm on the Bridge (a/k/a "Southwest Dave")

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...s/Turbines.jpg
A view of the Nevada-side Turbines in the Dam

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog.../FaceOfDam.jpg
The walkway provides stunning views of the face of the dam.

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...m_Bridge-1.jpg
One more view --showing a bit more dam.

Mark

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Originally Posted by UKCraig

PS look what arrived already. Just got to go out for a bit so not had a proper look but a quick flick through the book and it looks really nicely done. A nice feel and very colourful and inviting.

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Good timing. We only had one (1) copy still in the warehouse in the UK. Glad you were the one to get it!

There are some really good insights for traveling the roads in Arizona and New Mexico.

Thanks for purchasing it.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

That's why I put it there! Haha. I may have forgotten to book the tickets now it's soldout. I may have booked the wrong tickets and booked a Coors brewery tour in Golden instead but at least it's near Buffalo Bills museum and grave. ;-) All joking aside I know where I would want to spend my time between Denver or RMNP.

Dave

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Okay so I haven't managed to get away with that one. I have, however, got corporate to agree one extra night outside of Denver. So either one extra night somewhere between Durango and Denver or, alternatively, an extra night in Estes Park. What would you reckon?

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Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

Looking forward to seeing your photos.

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Yes, I think we are at that stage now, not much more to do other than look forward to the trip! Thank you for all the tips and suggestions, I think it's going to be a really fun few weeks!!

Isn't 18 places over 24 days a bit too much?

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Originally Posted by davwilll

Isn't 18 places over 24 days a bit too much?

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Hi davwilll and welcome to RTA!

For some (most?) people it would seem a lot to do but the beauty of planning your own road trip is to travel at the pace you are comfortable with balanced with how much you want to see. This is a bit of a whirlwind tour but the miles each day are comfortable with enough time for some sightseeing etc. I travel a lot like this and treat each day as going out for the day, I just finish up somewhere else!

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I have, however, got corporate to agree one extra night outside of Denver. So either one extra night somewhere between Durango and Denver or, alternatively, an extra night in Estes Park. What would you reckon?

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Well another night prior to Denver and you could visit Cave of the winds and a place I remember appealing to me that we didn't have time to visit was the Mining towns of Cripple creek and Victor. Near Denver there is Lookout mountain, home of Buffalo Bill's grave and museum close to the town of Golden.
Taking an extra night after Denver you could still visit BB's resting place (?) but then what I would probably do is head through Idaho Springs (lunch?) and continue to Granby/Grand lake for the night and next morning drive the epic Trail ridge road (US34) into Estes park, stay over and visit the Bear lake area next day. So many options but those are a few to ponder.