California, Arizona, Utah -- May Roadtrip

[rans]

Hi y'all, it's been a minute! I would like to ask for feedback on a trip that I planned for my in-laws (late 60s, but fit -- both have always hiked), accompanied by their children (late 20s). They'll do some hiking, but nothing too strenuous or very long. So, trip-wise, be it driving or sightseeing, the pace can not be too great, though things can be pushed at certain points.

The idea is for a 16-day trip through California, Arizona and Utah, hitting the major National Parks and other landmarks and places along the way (must sees: Grand Canyon, Yosemite and PCH). We decided to avoid Jun-Aug because of crowds and heat. Between May or September, I think May makes more sense as Spring is at full steam (e.g. one can see Yosemite falls) and there's more daylight, even if temperatures in some places are a bit high. So, we're pointing towards starting the trip on 10 May.

Current Plan (~ means somewhere around that area)

Day	See/Do	Sleep in	Driving (h)
1	Land in LA	LA	1
2	Movie studio, Hollywood boulevard	Lake Havasu City	5
3	Oatman, Arizona State Route 66	Flagstaff	4.5
4	Montezuma Castle NM, Sedona	Flagstaff	2.5
5	Grand Canyon	Grand Canyon	2
6	Desert View Drive, Horseshoe Bend, Bryce	St George, UT	7
7	Zion NP	St George, UT	2
8	(Maybe Zion NP), Las Vegas	Las Vegas	3
9	Death Valley NP	~Death Valley	2.5
10	Sequoia NP	~Sequoia NP	7
11	Yosemite NP	~Yosemite NP	4
12	Yosemite NP	~Yosemite NP	2
13	San Francisco	~San Francisco	4
14	PCH	~San Luis Obispo	6
15	PCH, Santa Barbara	~Santa Monica	4
16	Fly off.		1

I would appreciate comments and suggestions. For example, road X might be closed, or rather than staying in Y, stay in Z.

A couple of final notes:
- I'm aware that the PCH is currently closed between Esalen Institute and Lucia Lodge, so we'll see.
- I would highly value suggestions of stops along the way, especially, but not only, for long driving stretches (orange in table above).

Thank you!

[Southwest Dave]

Hi and welcome back to the forums!

The plan looks reasonably set out and I presume you have discussed it with them and checked they are happy with the pace of the trip? One area I would look at, is the time they actually have to check out Bryce canyon and Zion NP, it looks a bit rushed to me, especially with a side trip to Horseshoe bend. I would consider dropping Montezuma castle and head into the Grand canyon that day and exit via Desert View drive the following day and head to Bryce canyon, giving them chance to explore more of the Canyon the following morning before heading to Zion for the night, and stay another night to give a full day to explore this amazing park. Personally, I would not use St George as a base for the parks, there are lodgings in Bryce Canyon city (including Ruby's Inn close to the entrance) and for Zion NP, Springdale is a great little town close the entrance and with a Shuttle bus service into the park. From Las Vegas, they could drive through Death valley and stay in Lone Pine, Ridgecrest, or even Lake Isabella area to give a little more time to drive through Sequoia NP.

[AZBuck]

I agree with Dave that you can fit everything you want to see into your travel plans, but I also feel that there is a point of diminishing returns where just adding more 'must see' destinations means that you won't see enough of all of those destinations to make each stop worthwhile. This is most obvious on Days Six and Ten when you plan to visit some fairly important, scenic and time-consuming sites on days which involve significant driving.

Remember that any driving time estimates you get from mapping routines assume constant travel at the speed limit. Those estimates make no allowances for food, fuel, traffic, sight-seeing...not even an occasional stop-light/sign. Your chances of seeing all three of Desert View Drive, Horseshoe Bend and Bryce Canyon while driving from the Grand Canyon to St. George are pretty much non-existent, or would at the very least defeat the purpose of taking a couple of weeks to tour the Southwest. As a RoadTripper who has learned the value of actually taking some time to experience the places I've spent so much time and energy getting to, I would encourage you all to try to do a bit less and enjoy it all a bit more.

In the end, you know your travel styles and stamina better than we do, but I would encourage you to think about two or three things you might be willing to drop at this point rather than asking for more things to see and do, especially on your two longest driving days. But we're always here to work out just such details.

One thing I would agree with you on is that May is probably better than September for this sort of trip. Summer vacations would not have started in earnest yet and temperatures will be, in my opinion, more enjoyable in Spring than late Summer.

AZBuck

[rans]

Hi'a Dave! :) Thanks for the lighting quick reply. Glad to see you're still posting and helping out!

Regarding Bryce, you're right, it is a bit rushed and that's, well, because I ran out of days... Nevertheless, I still think they can make it there and have 2-3 hours, IMO enough for Bryce's main attractions (Horseshoe bend is just an excuse to stop/rest).
Dropping Montezuma implies dropping Sedona too, which, given it's a favourite of mine, I am trying to avoid. Having said that, I am considering it and will discuss it further with them.
Springdale sounds great, will look into it. And your Ridgecrest suggestion is spot on! It's got good accommodation and helps balancing driving time, as time spent driving there from DV is time saved the following day.


AZBuck! Great to see another guru still going strong.

Similarly, I agree with you. I'm well aware of mapping tools' proclivity to assume superhuman drivers and unrealistic perfect traffic conditions, which is why I always look at driving and actual point-to-point times, where the latter includes stops and some margin. Driving time in the table is more of a proxy for driver fatigue than anything else. And the request for things to see is more about roadside attractions (hopefully this won't offend anyone, but I consider Horseshoe bend a bit as such) that allow a short break while getting to see something. So, I will think a bit more about day 6 and see/discuss with them what can be done.
As for day 10, it's a bit hard to escape the long drive. Initially, Sequoia was not part of the plan -- as you rightly say, it's better to have more time and fewer stops -- but then I remembered it's unlikely Tioga Pass will be open and so, to go to Yosemite, they will forcibly have to go around west. And, with that being a long drive, it just makes sense to split in two and check out Sequoia. Having said that, with Dave's suggestion of staying in Ridgecrest after Death Valley, driving time is reduced to 4 hours, so I think it should now be ok.


Cheers!

[rans]

We've decided to heed your advice and drop Sedona, so, thanks, Dave and AZBuck. Now, instead of doing Grand Canyon -> Bryce in one go, we'll split the trip in Page, which is a nice area to explore (e.g. Antelope Canyon) and relax. Then, the following day, it's a ~3h drive to Bryce, giving plenty of time to explore it and then off to a hotel closer to Zion.

Revised Plan (~ means somewhere around that area)

Day	See/Do	Sleep in	Driving (h)
1	Land in LA	LA	1
2	Movie studio, Hollywood boulevard	Lake Havasu City	5
3	Oatman, Arizona State Route 66	Flagstaff	4.5
4	Grand Canyon NP	Grand Canyon NP	2
5	Desert View Drive, Horseshoe Bend, Page	Page, AZ	4
6	Bryce Canyon NP	~Zion NP	4
7	Zion NP	~Zion NP	2
8	(Maybe Zion NP), Las Vegas	Las Vegas	3
9	Death Valley NP	Ridgecrest	4.5
10	Sequoia NP	~Sequoia NP	4
11	Yosemite NP	~Yosemite NP	4
12	Yosemite NP	~Yosemite NP	2
13	San Francisco	~San Francisco	4
14	PCH	~San Luis Obispo	6
15	PCH, Santa Barbara	~Santa Monica	4
16	Fly back		1

[Southwest Dave]

You might have time to visit the Cameron Trading post as you exit the GC. One other thing, that you're likely aware of, is that some National parks now require permits/reservations to enter. Check the nps websites for info.

[rans]

You might have time to visit the Cameron Trading post as you exit the GC. One other thing, that you're likely aware of, is that some National parks now require permits/reservations to enter. Check the nps websites for info.

Cameron Trading Post is a great suggestion! I was actually looking to find something related Native Americans to make up for skipping Montezuma. I've seen Page has the Navajo Village Heritage Center. There's also the Navajo National Monument not far, but it might be a bit too much of a detour.

As for the permits, thanks for the reminder. I learned that here (I do pop in somewhat regularly, even if not logging in :x). It is not entirely unsurprising and a good idea, given the number of visitors and its trend.

I have a few more questions:

1. California used to mandate one free additional driver, but I recall seeing some news that it was now restricted to close family members. Is this still true?
2. Where does it make sense to stay in LA for the first night? Most movie studios, Hollywood Boulevard and Griffith Observatory are, naturally, in the same area, but I'm not sure if that's optimal, be it cost or traffic-wise. It would also be nice to be relatively close to a supermarket and an outdoors shop (REI) for supplies.
3. What's the state of cash-only places? A few years ago it was still quite common to find places that didn't take cards, but I wonder if that has changed after the pandemic.

[DonnaR57]

California used to mandate one free additional driver, but I recall seeing some news that it was now restricted to close family members. Is this still true?

Are you referring to car rentals? Sorry to answer a question with another question, but this confused me.

Where does it make sense to stay in LA for the first night? Most movie studios, Hollywood Boulevard and Griffith Observatory are, naturally, in the same area, but I'm not sure if that's optimal, be it cost or traffic-wise. It would also be nice to be relatively close to a supermarket and an outdoors shop (REI) for supplies.

Some thoughts - Burbank comes to mind. There's a decent Marriott right by the airport in Burbank (not LAX).

As far as REI goes, you may also be able to get what you need at Walmart.

What's the state of cash-only places? A few years ago it was still quite common to find places that didn't take cards, but I wonder if that has changed after the pandemic.

It's been my experience that most places still take cards. Keep a little cash for those very-few places who are cash-oriented. There are ATM's at almost every bank, and you can always get cash at Walmart or Target after making a purchase.



Donna

[rans]

Are you referring to car rentals? Sorry to answer a question with another question, but this confused me.

Yes. Most car rental agencies charge additional driver fees, but in California it used to free and I read up that after the pandemic a law was introduced that stipulated that this now only applies to close family (parents, children, siblings, spouses). I was just wondering if this is still the case or if they have eliminated it completely. I haven't found anything online, but just making sure to avoid surprises.

Some thoughts - Burbank comes to mind. There's a decent Marriott right by the airport in Burbank (not LAX).

As far as REI goes, you may also be able to get what you need at Walmart.

Great! I'll look up that Marriot. It also works out great because there's REI, Target, Walmart, etc. just 5 minutes away.

It's been my experience that most places still take cards. Keep a little cash for those very-few places who are cash-oriented. There are ATM's at almost every bank, and you can always get cash at Walmart or Target after making a purchase.

I'm not a fan of carrying cash and it wasn't uncommon in roadtrips in the USA to come across places that didn't take cards. And if they did, it was usually using the magnetic stripe, not pin+chip or contactless. I was just wondering if that's still the case, or if things have improved in that sense. In Europe, after the pandemic, places not taking cards have gone from few to virtually none.

[AZBuck]

First off... With the number of National Parks on your agenda, you should know that there are several annual/lifetime pass options available from the NPS. Getting one before you depart would be ideal, but you should be able to purchase one at the first National Park you visit. The website also discusses reservations and has links to the parks that require them and the NPS website where you'd purchase one.

If you're not actually planning on staying in Grand Canyon NP itself, then just return to Flag on Day 4 (much cheaper!) and again, do the loop through GCNP in a counter-clockwise direction. A possible addition to your itinerary between Flag/GC and Page is Canyon de Chelly National Monument. However, Sequoia National Park seems to call for a fairly significant detour between Yosemite and San Francisco and would be the first itinerary item I'd drop if things are still tight. In compensation, you might consider Joshua Tree NP. Note that the park's website warns against using GPS to navigate to the park, but instead recommends using I-10 or CA-52 to one of the three main entrances.

According to the Federal Reserve's website: "Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal Tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor." While the Fed also states that "Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise", I believe that the definition of 'private' is limited. If it's a chain you've heard of it's almost certainly a publicly traded company (stocks) and thus not private. Also, there was legislation introduced in Congress to require the acceptance of US currency for in-person purchases of less than $500. It was attached to a Defense appropriation bill, so my guess is that it passed. Remember that 55 million Americans have neither a checking account nor a credit card. Frankly, this is not something I'd worry about.

AZBuck