Las Vegas - Las Vegas

I'll be travelling the south-west between 28 september and 9 october:

This is the itinerary:

28-30 sept: Las Vegas
30 sept: Las Vegas - Red Rock Canyon - Death Valley - Ridgecrest - Barstow
1 oct: Barstow - Mojave Desert - Kingman - Williams
2 oct: Williams - Grand Canyon - Flagstaff
3 oct: Flagstaff - Holbrook - Kayenta (visits to Barringer Crater, Painted Desert and Petrified Forest)
4 oct: Kayenta - Monument Valley - Goosenecks State Park - Moki Dugway - Page
5 oct: Page - Glen Canyon Dam - Lake Powell - Big Water - through Grand Staircase - Kanab
6 oct: Kanab - Bryce Canyon - St. George
7 oct: St. George - Zion Park - Henderson
8 oct: Henderson - Hooverdam - Las Vegas
9 oct: flight back home...

I know it's a busy program and it's like 2200 miles of driving...
Is it possible? We would like to time some time to get out of the car and make some short strolls.
What about driving in the dark?
Toll roads?

Any information is welcome!

You're right, this is mostly driving. Without resorting to times and distances, I'd say that just eyeballing it, it can probably be done. You won't have much time to stop and explore though, I'm guessing, as your miles are ambitious.

I'd discourage your driving in the dark -- there's no problem in doing it, but there's so much scenery that you'll not want to miss anything by passing by in darkness.

I think your route could be a little more efficient -- you've got a bit of doubling back in this one. I'll work on this and see if I can come up with a more direct route for you. Back later! Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by morphsie

I'll be travelling the south-west between 28 september and 9 october:

---

Although it is technically possible to cover these distances on these days, you will not have time for walking about. So, a couple of suggestions:

Quote:

---

30 sept: Las Vegas - Red Rock Canyon - Death Valley - Ridgecrest - Barstow

---

If you drive the "loop" inside the park at Red Rock -- I recommend it -- the speed limit is 35 mph and your average speed will be about 15 mph or less -- so I would recommend that cut out Ridgecrest and Barstow and stay overnight in Baker, or if you can -- Furnace Creek in Death Valley.
Day 2: From Baker you can either drive through part of the Mojave National Preserve and drive past Kelso Dunes:http://www.roadtripamerica.com/place...preserve05.jpg down to I-40 and over to Kingman and points east or you can continue north on I-15 to exit 286 and take the road to Nipton and then NV-164 over to US-95 crossing the Colorado at Laughlin. That road between Nipton and US-95 has an awesome Joshua Tree forest. Plus, the route to Laughlin takes you right past the petroglyphs at Grapevine Canyon (take 1 hour and walk up there -- you will be amazed) if you push it, you could make Williams this night.

Quote:

---

2 oct: Williams - Grand Canyon - Flagstaff
3 oct: Flagstaff - Holbrook - Kayenta (visits to Barringer Crater, Painted Desert and Petrified Forest)

---

Phew! This is a long day of driving -- you need to figure that your time spent in the parks will average no more than 15 mph average speed. The rest of your schedule is doable -- but I can guarantee that you will have to spend 2-3 hours driving at night every day to see what you have listed during the day.

In any case, we look forward to reading your field report!

Mark

MS Streets and Trips comes up with the most efficient route as -- the one you outlined, only in reverse. They just have to be different, I guess. However, there are a couple of adjustments I'd make (the order of one or two stops), if you're still planning to do the whole thing after reading Mark's response. The route can be covered in 43 hours of driving time, plus the additional time in the parks as Mark suggests (at slower speeds). I'm also mentioning a couple other attractions for your consideration, just to complicate things.

Las Vegas -- Red Rock Canyon -- Death Valley -- Ridgecrest -- Barstow -- Oatman, AZ - Kingman -- Williams -- Grand Canyon -- Flagstaff -- Meteor Crater -- Petrified Forest -- Hubbell Trading Post (Ganado, AZ) -- Canyon de Chelly -- Monument Valley -- Goosenecks -- Moki Dugway -- Capitol Reef National Park -- Bryce Canyon -- Grand Staircase/Escalante -- Lake Powell/Page -- North Rim, Grand Canyon -- Zion National Park -- Valley of Fire State Park -- Hoover Dam -- Las Vegas

There really aren't any toll roads this far west, so no worries there. Bob

I think Mark gave you some great advice on how to shave off a few miles but still get a great trip. Bob's suggestions on re-routing are also good and worth considering.

To be honest, I'm all for speed runs but I think you're over-scheduling yourself. If I were you, I'd make a few cuts in the sights you plan on seeing along the way so you have a bit more time in the other places. You might want to make a list of the "must-sees". I just think you're going to regret not having more time to explore the great places you're going to be whizzing by.

Thanks for the great tips!
Yeah I considered it was a bit too rushy and a bit much driving...
The one problem I have is:
Flagstaff to Kayenta (it's just a bit too much...)
But how do I get close from Flagstaff to Kayenta without missing out on the petrified forest and the meteor crater?

What about driving to Chinle? And the next day to Monument Valley and so on?

What do you consider as must-sees?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by morphsie

Yeah I considered it was a bit too rushy and a bit much driving...The one problem I have is:
Flagstaff to Kayenta (it's just a bit too much...)
But how do I get close from Flagstaff to Kayenta without missing out on the petrified forest and the meteor crater?

---

I really enjoy driving and exploring the four corners area, specifically Monument Valley and the mesas in the Hopi Nation lands. Gerald Thurman, one of our RoadTrip Advisors, has a great field report & slide show from this four corner region. That being said, my advice would be to cut Holbrook, Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley and Kayenta from your trip. Save that for next time. And use this "found time" to really enjoy your exploration of Grand Canyon, Zion and Bryce. Judy is right -- it is shame to blast past so much natural wonder. Here is a field report I prepared about the north Rim and Bryce and a couple of other prime spots on the way. Here is another one about Zion. And finally a brief one about Hoover Dam.

Mark

Well I'm starting to get a bit confused...

Maybe someone can make a suggestion for this road trip?

Arrival in Las Vegas 2 nights

I want to see IF possible in a normal way:

Death Valley and bad water basin

Grand Canyon (South rim)

Barringer Crater

Drive Thru Petrified Forest

Monument Valley

Bryce Canyon

Zion Canyon

Hoover Dam

Back to Vegas :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by morphsie

Well I'm starting to get a bit confused...

---

This is a community of roadtrippers, many of us have a couple million miles of road trip experience. There are ample examples of routing suggestions on this board, in fact, your original route is doable, as we have mentioned, but it would not be the route that most of us would choose. That being said, you get to choose your own route -- you are in charge -- if you want to be on the road 12-14 hours each day, the route & interim destinations you have specified will work just fine. If, on the other hand you would like to travel at a slightly less hectic pace, you will have trim the destinations a little bit. We are thrilled to share our experiences, but point a to point b roadtrip routing is not generally what we share here.

Mark

Ok maybe I underestimate the vast size of the outback...
I downloaded Streets and Trips and Inserted a slightly modified route.
I'm now at 1600 miles in 8 days that seems more doable I guess.
Thanks for all the answers!

Morphsie, what route did you come up with?

Well it looks something like this (1400 miles)

2 days Las Vegas

From Vegas (to Red Rock Canyon not really sure about this) then to Hoover Dam. Down to Kingman so on to to Williams.

Next day Williams - Grand Canyon to Flagstaff.

Next Flagstaff (Meteor Crater) Holbrook - Petrified Forest to Gallup.

Gallup up to Farmington then on to Monument Valley spend the night in Mexican Hat.

Mexican Hat to Page (Antelope Canyon and the surroundings)

Page to Bryce Canyon to Kanab

Kanab - Zion - St George

St George - Fire Valley - Las Vegas

Something like this...
I dropped Death Valley (huge detour all in all...)
Any suggestions where I can make some alterations?
Or stuff that's really cool to see?

That looks like a much better route in terms of allowing enough time to explore the various settings. You should try to stop at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon as well. You're going close by it so it's not a big stretch. The North Rim is quite different than the South Rim.

If you really want to see Death Valley, you might consider still doing that and eliminating, instead, the more eastern parts of your trip (the Meteor Crater to Mexican Hat portion of your itinerary). This way you could circle into Death Valley, head east to Flagstaff and then do the Grand Canyon-Bryce-Zion portion of the trip. This would also be a great itinerary.

But, of course, the best route is the one that includes the things YOU most want to see the most.

Yeah I considered that. But you know I live a long long way off Monument Valley so chances are quite slim I'll ever get there back :D

And I consider another trip within the next 2 years from San Francisco to San Diego... So I could include Death Valley, Sequoia and so on in that trip...

Another question: how difficult are the roads? Like Grand Canyon? A lot of climbing? We're renting a 4WD for 289 dollars a week. Is that a good price?

Any tips are welcome!

The roads are good-quality American ones! You'll enjoy driving them -- there's a lot of ups and downs and twisties. You'll find uneven pavement here and there, a pothole or two, but all-in-all, American roads are in pretty good shape.

I agree with your choice -- if you have to drop anything from this trip, for me, it would be the western-most legs, especially if you can get back to do them later. You could also skip Red Rock Canyon -- it is a beautiful place, but very similar to some of the other terrain you'll be seeing. Like Judy, I also recommend the North Rim -- and the drive down to it from Jacob Lake is one of the prettiest stretches of road anywhere -- you'll really like it.

The weekly fee for the SUV is about normal -- not low, not high. Bob

Well, if you see yourself getting back here, then it makes sense to save Death Valley for another time.

I have driven all of the roads you're going to be driving in a VW New Beetle. It is fairly low to the ground with little clearance. You don't need 4WD or high-clearance for these roads. If you want that, there's nothing wrong with what you're renting....however, fuel consumption will be higher...but you don't need it.

I think you're going to have a fantastic trip!

Thans for all the tips maybe I'll drop Monument Valley and replace it with some extra time to the North Rim and Lake Jacob. All in all I'll drop some 350 miles not doing Monument Valley...
It should give more time to take things easy...
I'd do as follows after the Petrified forest drive back to Flagstaff and then 40 miles North to http://www.anasaziinn.com/graymountain/index.html this motel.
Next day to Page and try to visit Antelope Canyon and the surroundings.

I'd dont like the detour to Monument Valley because it's a long drive from Holbrook-Gallup-Farmington-Mexican Hat. It will be mostly driving without any real highlights I guess.
And I guess a lot of the scenery in Monument Valley will be seen in the other parts of the road trip. Or am I wrong? :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by morphsie

I'd dont like the detour to Monument Valley because it's a long drive from Holbrook-Gallup-Farmington-Mexican Hat. It will be mostly driving without any real highlights I guess. And I guess a lot of the scenery in Monument Valley will be seen in the other parts of the road trip.

---

The entire area is remarkable and full of "highlights", but the mesas that abound in the Monument Valley area are unique and amazing. But like I have mentioned a couple of times -- you don't have time to see it all. When I visit Monument Valley, I also go to the park run by the Navajo Nation (it is not a public park although all who pay a fee are welcome) and such a visit requires 8-10 hours -- your schedule will not allow you that kind of luxury.

Mark

Yep true... It's quite a big outback and I'd rather visit some places in a nice and convenient way than to rush through the South West.

I noticed that there's only one way to the North Rim so you'd have to drive quite a lot in and out the canyon.
So how would you go from Page? And where would you end the day Page-North Rim - ??? ?

I'm too lazy right now to look up mileage into the North Rim, nor do I remember the exact times. I can tell you this....last summer I spent the night in Page, got up and going by about 7am, went into the North Rim, toured the Lodge, checked out the view and sat for awhile drinking coffee, walked a portion of the trail along the rim for maybe 30 minutes or so, did some shopping in the gift shop, drove up to one of the other look out points, walked around for another 30 minutes or so up there, drove to Kanab, ate lunch, drove to Zion and explored it for a bit (not as long as I would have liked to but I had experienced some problems with the heat a couple days before and the heat in Zion was getting to me), and then drove to Ruby's Inn at the entrance to Bryce Canyon. I think I got to Ruby's at about 8pm.

Sorry I don't remember the details but I don't recall it being all that long of a drive into the North Rim. Maybe 30 minutes? Hopefully someone will pop in with more exact info.

I would only go to Page for the night if I was on my way to the South Rim. If you're on your way to Zion or Bryce, there's plenty of lodging opportunities by those parks.

Hope that helped and didn't just confuse you more.

No not at all :)
Thanks for all the advice!

The drive from the junction of US89 and 89A, to Jacob Lake and the North Rim is an easy one -- about 2.5 hours driving time (85 or 86 miles). This section of highway, from Marble Canyon to Fredonia, AZ, is one of the most isolated and beautiful places in Arizona. You're not going to believe the scenery.

The route follows the Vermillion Cliffs (to your right as you head west) -- one of the locations where the magnificent California Condor -- largest land bird in the world -- has been released into the wild after nearly becoming extinct. They are doing well and the "wild" population in Arizona is now almost 40 birds. If you're lucky, you'll see one. The best viewing site is off the west end of the cliffs -- turn right off the highway on House Rock Road (it also has a forest service number but this doesn't show on the map I have at hand). Just follow this good road around the west end of the cliffs -- and there is a viewing area set up there from which you can see the release site. House Rock Road will be a mile or two east of the point where the highway (US89A) very obviously turns a left corner and heads uphill via switchbacks to reach the top of the Kaibab Plateau and Jacob Lake. House Rock is a MAJOR dirt road and is the most obvious one you'll see, going off to the right. The Condors are mostly black, but they have a white blaze underneath their wings -- along the leading edge. They like to soar along and above the cliffs.

Take the time to stop at Lee's Ferry if you can -- it is the only place for several hundred miles that you can drive right to the edge of the Colorado River. The turn is just past the twin steel bridges at Marble Canyon. Jacob Lake is also a fun stop for a break. Check out my photos of Lee's Ferry if you like at http://bschaller.photosite.com.

SR67 from Jacob Lake to the North Rim is one of the prettiest drives anywhere. Also, the drive out to Cape Royal from near the N.R. Lodge is worth your time.

Once you finish, you can stay at Jacob Lake at the end of the day (you might reserve your room in the morning as you pass by), or you might even be able to snag a room at the North Rim if you're lucky. If not, Gen suggests the "quaint and rustic" Crazy Jug Motel in Fredonia, AZ. Bob

It's all so beautiful and interesting! I can't wait to get there :)
Well for now I think I got all my questions answered if I've got more I know where to ask!

After a lot of reading and thinking...
I came up with this:

http://users.pandora.be/morphs/Lasvegas.gif


Las Vegas - Williams (over route 66)
Williams - Flagstaff
Flagstaff - Gallup
Gallup - Mexican Hat
Mexican Hat - Page
Page - Kanab
Kanab - Cedar City
Cedar City - Las Vegas

8 days for 2300 kilometers (1500 mile)

This should be ok I guess...

Any comments?

I think that is going to make a GREAT vacation! Just don't forget to wear a good sunscreen and to drink your water, and have a heckuva good time. Let us know how it goes!

I will do!

When you get to Bryce NP, if you find at that point you still have some time on your hands (hey, you never know, right?), then you might consider continuing on through Escalante and Boulder to Torrey on SR12. It's a magnificent drive and you'd enjoy it. From there, you could swing back around to the west, then south on I-15 to pick up your plan again. This would cost you about an afternoon (if you find you have it). Bob