Grand Canyon Lodging

We will be at Grand Canyon around Dec. 8-10. I went to the Xanterra web site and found that there are rooms at Kachina and Thunderbird Lodges (on the rim) which are described identically: canyon side, 2 queen beds, non-smoking, $125. We have 2 kids to share one bed, plus our own portable crib for the baby (well, 2 yrs), which they say is tight but do-able. They also describe Maswik Lodge (1/4 mile from rim), with Rooms in Maswik North, 2 queen beds, non-smoking, $49.50 or $68.00, all sleep 5 comfortably.

Anyone stay at these who would be willing to comment? Any specific recommendations or things we should know about one versus another? We have never been to GC before and plan to probably stay 2 nights.

ALSO - Keeping in mind that it will be late fall (snow & short days), is there enough to do that the kids CAN do (ages 10, 5 and 2)? In other words, I know we won't be doing any serious hiking or mule rides, but we like to walk and ride around. Will two days be too much? We are driving from New England and spending 5 or 6 days around NM & AZ before heading to our Christmas holiday destination, Las Vegas (to see family). Thanks for any help!

Sweens,

I once spent 32 days in the bottom of the Grand and only left because I was out of food. I know that is not the scenario you will have with your family, but... yes there is plenty to see and do over two days.

I have never stayted in those lodges and it has been too long since I was there to comment -- but some of our regular posters were in the park last year -- so I expect we will learn something soon.

Maswik is my first choice when I stay at the South Rim Village, simply because it is always the cheapest. The reason for this is that it isn't on the rim, as you've already learned. However, it is an easy walk to the other two lodges you mention, and they are the "center" of the village. If I am not mistaken, Maswik was remodeled just a few years ago (maybe 3 or so) -- I could be wrong about that but I have a vague memory of not being able to stay there about three years back and had to get a cabin instead. There is a 4th lodge (Yavapai) which is a bit further away (near the General Store, and the new visitor's hub) and it is also typically a bit cheaper. The fact that they didn't mention Yavapai to you may indicate it is under renovation as well. All of that said, the quality and amenities of all are similar in caliber -- some folks are willing to pay the extra freight to have the view out the window instead of after a short walk. In my mind, the only accommodation at GC that is really worth MORE money is the El Tovar -- it is a masterpiece.

You could do a canyon rim walk with your kids -- maybe toward the Shrine of the Ages and the old visitor's center -- there was always a ranger talk at the amphitheater there in the evenings, at least seasonally. I'm sure some of the activities will be geared toward the kids, the older ones at least, and there is usually a "junior ranger" program they can participate in. These activities will be advertised in the park bulletin, which they will give you when you pay at the entrance station. The weather can be extremely chilly, so you need to be prepared for that, but this time of year is possibly the BEST time of year to visit (although if you tried to pin me down on that I'd probably waffle -- I love the Canyon in ALL seasons). Be sure to take them out to Desert View to climb up in the "watchtower." Sometimes you can see the rafts on the river below from there!

The food in the village is lackluster, except for the Arizona Room, or possibly Arizona Steakhouse. It is on the east end of the Bright Angel/Kachina lodges complex. Easiest way to get there is to walk through the main doors of the Bright Angel Lodge, straight out the back, and then to your right along the rim walk toward the El Tovar -- you'll see the restaurant to your right as you walk along the rim. It is excellent, and the prices are reasonable for the setting. You'll need reservations, if it is open. I cannot remember if they close it in winter or not. Don't know how you feel about taking the kids to a fancier place than McD's, but they need some culture once in awhile too, hey? And there is NO culture like that found in a western beef establishment! If you prefer something more casual (the aforementioned is a tablecloth and linen napkin kind of place), there is more variety these days in Tusayan, just south outside the park, including a pizza parlor, McD's and some others.

Thanks, Mark and Bob. I didn't mention El Tovar or Bright Angel Lodges because they are full, and Yavapai is closed then, I assume for the winter, not necessarily for renovations. I'm with you in that I can't see spending double the amount to look out my window to see something I can take a nice walk to see. Besides, with so little daylight in December, I expect to be outside during all the times you can see it anyway.

I'm still debating the length of time to stay at GC. I'm also debating how to see the rest of Northern/Eastern Arizona in a few days. This state is really starting to drive me nuts... too much to see in too big an area in too little time! I guess that's not a bad problem to have.

Perhaps the solution is to come back to Arizona again and again! I love traveling but I have to admit my home state is my favorite of all. While you are considering your options, there is another place I highly recommend -- if you can, take a day to visit Canyon de Chelly. It is very beautiful and you can take a Navajo-led tour in a 6-wheel drive open-topped truck through the Canyon. It is an experience you'd remember! Bob

Hmmmmmmm... We were already planning a stop here, but until now I had not heard anything about the tours. Can you tell me more about them? How much are they, will they be running in December, how long does it take, can you bring a 2-year-old (car seat issue)?

Maybe you can help me with my itinerary. We will be coming thru New Mexico and would "LIKE" to see the following in Arizona (in no particular order): Four Corners, Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley, Painted Cliffs/Desert, Grand Canyon, and the Sedona area (esp. the canyons - Boynton, Oak Creek, etc.). We probably only have about 4 days or so (although we may take 5), with 1-1/2 or 2 at Grand Canyon. What might be the most efficient driving circuit? I honestly have not yet gotten to try figuring out the mileage between places, so I anticipate you saying that I'm totally crazy; the drive time alone is 25 hours a day between places. But I'd appreciate a clue-in. Thanks.

Just heard on the news that the Bright Angel trail and the donkey rides are suspended for about 6 months while the trail is being fixed. There are many other things to do in the GC, but thought you might like to know this.

Judy, I don't think the trail is closed -- except for the mules. I called last week and got a reservation -- nothing was mentioned about hikers and they took my reservation OK. I had called because the mules were cancelled and I thought I could get some of the space they had reserved. It normally takes a two-year wait to get a slot at Phantom Ranch, so I was hot on the phone. Unfortunately, they put me on a waiting list as they were going to give first shot to the now-rideless muleteers! :( I did get a reservation for later on though, in March!

I got my tour through the Thunderbird Lodge, but there are several operators and you can find them on the Net. Thunderbird's tele is 1-800-679-2473, FAX is 928-674-5844. Price is about $40 for half-day, $65 for full day, plus taxes and tip. I normally recommend the full-day as you see both Canon del Muerto and Canyon de Chelly (two sides of a "V"). The point of the Vee is where the water flows out of the canyons -- and THAT is why they call the town there "Chinle" -- the name means... "where the water flows out." You pronounce it "chin-lih" if you want to sound like a local -- about equal emphasis on both syllables. I don't know about the littlest child -- not sure what kind of accommodation they can make for a child seat. After all that, I'm not sure your kids would do well on the tour for the entire day -- you might consider the half-day instead, if they can accommodate the little one.

I'll look at your route options when I get home this evening -- I don't have my planning software at work (the software has an optimizing feature that will come up with the most efficient route given the places you want to see). I'll let you know on that one later!

The extra heavy monsoonal rainstorms this summer caused some wash-outs, so Mules are prohibited during the repair phase (several months). Hikers are being allowed, but obviously, they will have to accomodate the worker bees re-building the trail.

I think you can do it (get out your map!). The miles I figure are about 1002. This is about 18:25 hours/minutes of driving time over 4.5 days! Of course, nothing ever goes as planned but that's normal! Here's how it can be done -- leaving Gallup NM at 8:00 AM, drive north to Shiprock, and past Four Corners to Mexican Hat, Utah, then south on US163 to Goulding's Trading Post, and Monument Valley. You can spend 3 hours touring the loop road at Monument Valley and snooping around Goulding's, a venerable establishment in its own right.

Leave the same afternoon for Chinle via Kayenta, US160 to US191, then south on 191. Spend the night at Chinle, take a half day tour of Canyon De Chelly the next morning (or another option, just drive along the rim road and see it from the overlooks). After noon and lunch, head south to Ganado (see the trading post there for awhile if you like, very historic place, then east on I-40 to Flagstaff and south to Sedona on US89A. Spend that night at Sedona, you could make it there by about 4:00 PM, so you'd have time to knock around town a little before dark.

Next morning (8:00 AM), back north on US89A to Flagstaff, and US89 to Cameron, then west into GC Natl Park on AZ64. Stop at Desert View on the way in, and see the viewpoints between there and the South Rim Village; you could arrive by early afternoon, but no hurry. Spend the night at GC and all the next day (Day 4). Consider the West Rim Drive -- winter is the only time you can drive it yourself; in summer, they prohibit vehicles on that road except the park buses.

Morning of Day 5, you drive southbound on AZ64 to Williams, west on I40 to Seligman, take Old Route 66 to Kingman (very scenic and fun), then north on US93 to Las Vegas. You could make it to Las Vegas by mid-afternoon or evening if you just poke along.

The unknown is what will happen with the family to slow you down, but I think this is doable if they are good travelers and everything goes well. This would be a fairly ambitious 4+ days. I could do it, but I no longer travel with wee ones. At worst, it would just take a little more time. What do you think?

Congrats on getting a spot in March! I had no idea that the wait-list for Phantom Ranch was normally so long. Good to know. Hmmmm, I guess I should start planning ahead for that, eh? It's a trip I've always wanted to take.

Yes -- Phantom books that far out. Here's how it works: On the 1st of each month, they open the book on the month 23 months out. So this November 1, you can call for reservations for the month of October, 2005. That's just for the lodging (they reserve the dorms for hikers, normally, the mule riders get the cabins). At the same time you make the reservation for your bed, you "reserve" your meals (there is a choice of beef stew, steak or vegeterian), plus breakfast, and you can order a sack lunch for the trail also. If you have a reservation at Phantom
Ranch, that is all you need as far as hiking the trails.

The program is altogether different for backpackers -- for that, all you need do is get a hiking/camping permit from the backcountry office (rangers). These are limited, but I understand they are easier to get at a later notice than are the beds at Phantom. I am not certain whether a camper can reserve meals at the Ranch or not, but I suspect this is possible. You'd have to ask if you were interested in that.

All the reservations are on a prepaid basis, but you can get a refund if you cancel by the set deadlines (which are reasonable, although I can't remember exactly what they are).

You can get the numbers for Phantom Ranch off Xanterra's website (just search on Phantom Ranch).

Thanks. I'm not one to plan ahead that far but, since this is something that intrigues me, I guess I need to. I had no idea how it worked and will be trying to figure out what the heck I may be doing 2-3 years from now to schedule a visit.

I think you went WAY above & beyond the call of duty with your response. Thank you so much! Your itinerary is amazing. You captured almost everything I was interested in and - more importantly - gave me an idea of driving times in between, as well as times to spend at each place. I'm going to make some modifications, but you certainly did 90% of my work, and I can't thank you enough.

One of the things I wanted to do was stay at the Wigwam Motel for the kids (yeah, right) in Holbrook, so on the day we go to Canyon de Chelly we will swing down to Petrified Forest and Painted Desert, and then spend the night at the Wigwam, assuming I can find their number somewhere to make reservations. To do that, we will perhaps knock out one or two other things, and/or just take an extra day.

Then the next day we will go to Sedona and spend a little more time there, hopefully taking in some of the canyons there. Then it will be on to Grand Canyon. I had thought of taking the main entrance in, but I think I like your idea better (via Desert View).

Thanks again! Any other input would also be appreciated. Oh, by the way - what software do you use for planning trips? The only thing I have is Microsoft Expedia Streets & Trips, which is pretty good but I don't think it does what yours did.

Actually, that IS what I used. I found it for next to nothing on a bargain rack and bought it because I had read posts from others on this site that it was pretty good. Before that, I often used Rand McNally's free software (web-based) which also worked OK, but of course didn't have as many features. I usually decide my route with a paper map or atlas, and then use the planning software to get an idea of mileages and times (too lazy to do the math myself like I used to back in the "olden" days). I hardly ever stick to my plans, but they serve as the framework for what is possible -- like -- can I drive this 3000 miles and still get home in time to make it to work on Monday... :) Enjoy your trip! Bob

If you are hanging around the canyon, it never hurts to check for last-minute cancellations. I am told you have to be there in person, but they are common. Just not a sure thing. Bob