Seattle to DC with sightseeing and coronavirus?

After threatening to do so for a couple of years, I'm seriously thinking of driving my rising junior to her college in Washington DC, from Seattle, WA. The thought of us being on a plane is really stressful, in this time of masks and disinfectants. Of course, I'd have to balance staying in hotels/motels.

In any case, we'd probably pretty much drive 7-9 hours/day, to not have the trip take too much time. We've been across the country several times, most recently last summer with a drive that took us as far as Montreal, Quebec. So, we're veteran roadtrippers, as a family. But what I am really asking, what would be some good, lesser-known, less popular sights to see, that we can use to break up the trip along the way.

Anyone done a cross-country recently? Hotels/motels? I don't think we could camp....but I'd consider it if we felt that was the safer option.

Thanks for any thoughts/advice/input!

...of just such places, both embedded in the workings of our own mapping software and as stand alone of quiet attractions every couple of hours along the major cross country Interstates. If/once you have a route we'll see if we can offer some specific sites to match your taste[s].

AZBuck

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In any case, we'd probably pretty much drive 7-9 hours/day, to not have the trip take too much time.

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It is good to pace yourself evenly on a cross country route, it is a marathon and not a sprint. Do not be fooled by electronic mapping programs time estimates though, as they don't belong in the 'real world' where construction and congestion can cause delays and us mere humans need to use the bathroom, have some rest and stretch our limbs and the need to refuel ourselves and the vehicle. With this in mind you should think of 7-9 hours as between 400 and 500 miles with those appropriate stops and thats the distance where you should be looking at places you like the look of to spend the night. (Adjusting accordingly if you want to spend a bit more time checking out an attraction on any given day) That will mean 5 overnight stops and 6 days of travel and that could become a nice adventure for you both to share.

As far as hotels go, here are some suggestions. Note that contamination risk from Surface contact still has not been proven to be a significant way to get infected. Nevertheless, decontaminating a room can be done in about 30 minutes. These precautions might be a bit extreme, yet doable.

Get a ground room floor to avoid elevators or having to touch handrails in stairwells.

Bring your own sheet, blanket and pillowcase. You might want a change of sheet and pillowcase for every night. Throw the hotel stuff in a corner.

Bring slippers or whatever to avoid walking barefoot.

Not all disinfectants kill Covid! Check yours with the EPA
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-regist...cov-2-covid-19

Remember, surfaces MUST remain WET for the appropriate amount of time! Alcohol 60 seconds, bleach 5 minutes! Simply wiping something down and walking away might be a waste of time. Follow the DISINFECTING directions on the product.

Wipe down the room keys. Then the outer door lock and surrounding area.

Inside, wipe every light switch AND immediate surrounding area you are likely to touch when turning on the lights. Same goes for door knobs, drawer pulls etc.

Wipe down sink and countertops. Clear off all tabletops. You don’t need the TV guide etc.

Put the tv remote control in a zip lock bag. With all the crevices, you really can’t decontaminate it well, but it still works fine in the bag.

Thoroughly clean the heat/ac unit. Maybe wear gloves when handling it. You should be using gloves fueling up as well.

Imagine that every single surface in the room is covered in wet paint, or honey, or superglue.

After reading these guidelines I would certainly opt for camping where possible! It certainly won't take longer to pitch a tent and cook a meal. The only area of concern would be in the bathroom and showers, just take the necessary precautions and always after exiting wash your hands with disinfectant. Obtain some N95 masks if possible for self-protection in the restrooms. Rest of the time you can wear standard cloth masks.

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Originally Posted by travelingman

As far as hotels go, here are some suggestions. Note that contamination risk from Surface contact still has not been proven to be a significant way to get infected. Nevertheless, decontaminating a room can be done in about 30 minutes. These precautions might be a bit extreme, yet doable.

Get a ground room floor to avoid elevators or having to touch handrails in stairwells.

Bring your own sheet, blanket and pillowcase. You might want a change of sheet and pillowcase for every night. Throw the hotel stuff in a corner.

Bring slippers or whatever to avoid walking barefoot.

Not all disinfectants kill Covid! Check yours with the EPA
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-regist...cov-2-covid-19

Remember, surfaces MUST remain WET for the appropriate amount of time! Alcohol 60 seconds, bleach 5 minutes! Simply wiping something down and walking away might be a waste of time. Follow the DISINFECTING directions on the product.

Wipe down the room keys. Then the outer door lock and surrounding area.

Inside, wipe every light switch AND immediate surrounding area you are likely to touch when turning on the lights. Same goes for door knobs, drawer pulls etc.

Wipe down sink and countertops. Clear off all tabletops. You don’t need the TV guide etc.

Put the tv remote control in a zip lock bag. With all the crevices, you really can’t decontaminate it well, but it still works fine in the bag.

Thoroughly clean the heat/ac unit. Maybe wear gloves when handling it. You should be using gloves fueling up as well.

Imagine that every single surface in the room is covered in wet paint, or honey, or superglue.

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Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

As to route, I've done I-80/I-90; did a route that dipped into ID to Craters of the Moon last year; the southern route is the one we've not really done yet. I'll play with the mapping software and get some thoughts going.

Yup, I know the "rules" about mileage, etc. :-)

The problem with camping is...I haven't done it in years. Like many years. We have a decent tent, sleeping bags, pads, etc. Need a Coleman stove. But it's a big unknown for me, to find camping spots along a route. I know about KOA spots, and, theoretically, that there are spots in the state and national park areas. But it's intimidating. Now, is it MORE intimidating than sleeping in a hotel in the midst of a pandemic?

Again, thanks for the replies. I'll post some potential routes soon.

If you need public camping spots along the Interstates or US highways, we have an entire forum for that purpose! There are some public campgrounds who are closed to tenters who require restrooms and showers, only opening to those units that are self-contained. That's probably not because they're trying to discriminate, but because they've closed their restrooms and don't want folks leaving human waste around.

We are currently on a trip ourselves, just for the purpose of seeing family. A lot of stuff that travelers need, such as hotels and fuel stations, are open. We brought our own Clorox wipes, but more importantly, our own pillows! I am relatively comfortable with sheets of beds at motels being clean, but not so much pillows that many heads have laid on (and drooled on). That's normal for us, though, not just in this pandemic. We also brought masks, and wear them whenever we are around other people and/or inside -- especially in rest area facilities.

One of the states we are planning to travel through, has many counties that are reverting to "take out and drive through" for their restaurants, closing the dine-in. But we just came through three states that has dine-in open (CA, UT and CO), at limited seating/capacity.

As for whether a hotel or tent is more intimidating in a pandemic, is certainly your decision. If we'd still had our RV, I think we'd be traveling in it this trip. Tenting? We gave up sleeping on the ground a long time ago, even with air mattresses trying to cushion the ground. BUT it may be a choice for you.

The other thing to consider, taking a child to college, is how much stuff she is going to be taking. If you have to add that to tents, sleeping bags, and cooking equipment....well, something to think about.


Donna

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Originally Posted by travelingman

As far as hotels go, here are some suggestions. Note that contamination risk from Surface contact still has not been proven to be a significant way to get infected. Nevertheless, decontaminating a room can be done in about 30 minutes. These precautions might be a bit extreme, yet doable.

Get a ground room floor to avoid elevators or having to touch handrails in stairwells.

Bring your own sheet, blanket and pillowcase. You might want a change of sheet and pillowcase for every night. Throw the hotel stuff in a corner.

Bring slippers or whatever to avoid walking barefoot.

Not all disinfectants kill Covid! Check yours with the EPA https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-regist...cov-2-covid-19

Remember, surfaces MUST remain WET for the appropriate amount of time! Alcohol 60 seconds, bleach 5 minutes! Simply wiping something down and walking away might be a waste of time. Follow the DISINFECTING directions on the product.

Wipe down the room keys. Then the outer door lock and surrounding area.

Inside, wipe every light switch AND immediate surrounding area you are likely to touch when turning on the lights. Same goes for door knobs, drawer pulls etc.

Wipe down sink and countertops. Clear off all tabletops. You don’t need the TV guide etc.

Put the tv remote control in a zip lock bag. With all the crevices, you really can’t decontaminate it well, but it still works fine in the bag

Thoroughly clean the heat/ac unit. Maybe wear gloves when handling it. You should be using gloves fueling up as well.

Imagine that every single surface in the room is covered in wet paint, or honey, or superglue.

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This little "to-do" list falls somewhere in between sobering and terrifying, but the crazy thing is, even if you do take your precautions to this extreme, there are still no guarantees. Travel of any kind during this pandemic is a calculated risk; we can reduce the risk to some extent (see above), but we can't eliminate it. Personally? I plain and simply wouldn't enter a room full of wet paint or super glue, much less sleep in one. I can't even imagine a circumstance where I'd willingly do that to myself--but that's me.

This staying at home business is most certainly getting old. But (with any luck at all), it's not gonna kill me!

Rick

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Originally Posted by Rick Quinn

This staying at home business is most certainly getting old. But (with any luck at all), it's not gonna kill me!

Rick

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I hear you! Our family had several planned air and road trips that we had to cancel:-(. I am really torn on her going back to school, but the school plans to be open for a shortened in-person semester, and my kid wants to go back. Most of the gear/winter stuff was left in storage in DC, since said kid was actually on a semester abroad in Ireland when the pandemic hit.

Everything I've read suggests that the biggest risk factors are being in close contact with other people's exhalations. Surface transmission is considered less of a risk. Of course, it's all just a balance of risk. Flying versus driving even without a pandemic is a risk.

If I was still a kid in college, wild horses couldn't have held me back, much less a mere pandemic, so I can definitely relate. I think it's great that you're supporting your daughter's decision, especially under these circumstances. If her school does go forward with their plan to open, do what you've got to do to keep your family as safe as possible.

Then again, there are a lot of "open" signs flipping back around to "closed" these days, so I don't think I'd be too surprised if that in-person semester gets further postponed.

Rick

My husband and I are traveling, and we are both over 60. We asked our doctor what she thought about travel. Her main comments were, "Stay out of crowds", "Wear a mask", "Wash your hands a lot," and "don't touch your face."

As for your daughter going back to college, even some of the colleges are trying to decide what to do. My SIL teaches at a midwestern college in Kansas, and they are still "on the fence" about classes this fall. She's decided that if she goes back to teach (and in-person is best for her field), she will be taking a shower when she gets home every day. Your daughter is probably in less danger than some of her professors and asst profs.


Donna

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Originally Posted by landmariner

Obtain some N95 masks if possible for self-protection in the restrooms.

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You cannot just put on any old N-95 mask and expect it to provide ANY protection unless you have been professionally FIT TESTED to determine which brand and size mask fits YOUR face, and you are instructed how to properly adjust and wear the mask.

I have done this testing for many years in a hospital.

Here is a video of what’s involved. If ANY leak occurs while you wear it, it fails to protect you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xl4qX6qEYXU

And, fit testing is a serious issue.

https://www.reliasmedia.com/articles...95-respirators

I just returned from a trip from Colorado thru Wyoming, Idaho to Montana and back by motorcycle. Campgrounds are very busy as are the usual stops along interstates (standing in line 20 min at Subway in Rawlins for instance)

I think everyone is social distancing in campgrounds since so many other choices are closed.

One campground that's usually been nearly empty was full this time except I got the last spot.

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Originally Posted by noFanofCB

I just returned from a trip from Colorado thru Wyoming, Idaho to Montana and back by motorcycle. Campgrounds are very busy as are the usual stops along interstates (standing in line 20 min at Subway in Rawlins for instance)
I think everyone is social distancing in campgrounds since so many other choices are closed.
One campground that's usually been nearly empty was full this time except I got the last spot.

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So, sounds like camping is popular this year! I think the lean toward driving is strong. My kid is liking the idea, and I would enjoy the time together. I think hotels/motels are what we'll go for. Being too new to camping makes that too challenging to take on during a pandemic.

As for route, I'm thinking Seattle-Missoula, MT-Buffalo, WY-Mt. Rushmore (maybe only...we've seen it several times), Badlands Nat'l Park, SD (drive the loop from Wall to the Ben Reifel ctr at least), Sioux City, IA, Indianapolis, IN, DC. So, I-90-I-80-I-74-I-70-I-270.
I have an EZ-Pass for the tolls. Driving a Toyota Sequoia that's made three cross-country trips already.

Suggestions for a good stopping place between Sioux City and Indianapolis and Indianapolis and DC welcome! Just need a decent size town likely to have multiple hotel/motel and some dining options. Bonus for any natural areas that we could see -- mounds, waterfalls, etc. that are near enough to the highway to be a lunch stop.

The halfway point between Sioux City and Indy would be Davenport IA, plenty of services there. Between Indy and DC, halfway would be St. Clairsville OH, plenty of services there.

Rather than take the PA Turnpike, I'd go south on I-79 at Washington PA to I-68 back to I-70. Not only is it toll-free, it's a better road, same amount of time.

Well, I will say you've already made a couple of outstanding choices! Not flying, especially now that two of the four major airlines have gone back to pre-pandemic cattle car standards is perhaps the best one. Also, the inclusion of Sioux City and Indianapolis indicates that you're going to eschew the Midwestern Turnpike$, and for only about 30 miles more on the odometer.

There's lots more to do in the Rapid City area besides Mount Rushmore and the Badlands. For a relatively short stop consider Devils Tower which can be included on a loop from I-90 via US-14 and WY-24. If you're looking for a longer and/or more adventuresome stop in the area consider Wind Cave or Jewel Cave.

Depending on the weather (wind) you might want to consider US-20/I-380 between Sioux City and Iowa City rather than staying on I-29/I-80 through Des Moines. Although it's a surface road, US-20 is a four-lane divided highway with controlled access at major intersections and a 65 mph or so speed limit.

For a stop between Sioux City and Indianapolis, I'd think somewhere around the Quad Cities on the Mississippi would work well. Between Indianapolis and DC, I'd be looking for something on or near the Ohio around Wheeling. That would make your last day into DC a bit shorter as you'll be crossing the Appalachians (via I-79/I-68). Remember I-76 is the Pennsylvania Turnpike, which is both narrow and expensive.

And finally, I'll refer you back to the list I pointed you to in my initial response for scenic roadside 'rest areas' that can serve as both picnic grounds and let you get a little exercise to break up the day.

AZBuck

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Originally Posted by glc

Rather than take the PA Turnpike, I'd go south on I-79 at Washington PA to I-68 back to I-70. Not only is it toll-free, it's a better road, same amount of time.

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I use to travel a lot between DC area and Indiana and absolutely second taking I-79 down to I-68 to I-70. The drive through western Maryland and the mountains is so much nicer, and free, compared to the PA Turnpike.

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Originally Posted by NowthatIamretired

I use to travel a lot between DC area and Indiana and absolutely second taking I-79 down to I-68 to I-70. The drive through western Maryland and the mountains is so much nicer, and free, compared to the PA Turnpike.

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Me three. I lived in DC and made that drive numerous times; I wouldn't do it any other way!

Rick

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Originally Posted by travelingman

You cannot just put on any old N-95 mask and expect it to provide ANY protection unless you have been professionally FIT TESTED to determine which brand and size mask fits YOUR face, and you are instructed how to properly adjust and wear the mask.

I have done this testing for many years in a hospital.

Here is a video of what’s involved. If ANY leak occurs while you wear it, it fails to protect you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xl4qX6qEYXU

And, fit testing is a serious issue.

https://www.reliasmedia.com/articles...95-respirators

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My wife is a long time OR nurse (neuro), edited a section of Lippincott for years, and put together an award winning poster for AORN annual convention on sterile control. She fits me with an N95. Nonetheless, that is for only higher risk situations. Given the innate engineering of the N95 it is still safer than the every day surgical mask which is better than an ordinary mask which is safer than the everyday homemade versions. But you are absolutely right that to get 100% out of an N95 it needs to properly fitted, beards are no-no's, etc. When the risk of going into a close space, poorly ventilated rest area bathroom, I prefer to be even 15 percent safer.

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Originally Posted by glc

<snip>

Rather than take the PA Turnpike, I'd go south on I-79 at Washington PA to I-68 back to I-70. Not only is it toll-free, it's a better road, same amount of time.

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Totally agree on the I-79 option instead of the turnpike.

The suggestion of planning the last night about 3 to 4 hours outside of D.C. is highly recommended. Even though it is summer and covid-19 has increased teleworking, D.C. is still a congested rush hour city. Best to hit DC area middle of the day.

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Originally Posted by landmariner

My wife is a long time OR nurse (neuro), edited a section of Lippincott for years, and put together an award winning poster for AORN annual convention on sterile control. She fits me with an N95. Nonetheless, that is for only higher risk situations. Given the innate engineering of the N95 it is still safer than the every day surgical mask which is better than an ordinary mask which is safer than the everyday homemade versions. But you are absolutely right that to get 100% out of an N95 it needs to properly fitted, beards are no-no's, etc. When the risk of going into a close space, poorly ventilated rest area bathroom, I prefer to be even 15 percent safer.

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Looks like you’re in very good hands with someone who is knowledgeable about N-95 masks!

My biggest concern about the average Joe donning one is that they will have a false sense of security and take unnecessary risks. Likewise, I fear that a lot of the infected front line workers got that way from an improperly fitted mask. Like scuba gear and parachutes, they must be properly fitted and properly used 100% of the time. I’ve always hated wearing those masks and always worried about this.

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Originally Posted by travelingman

Looks like you’re in very good hands with someone who is knowledgeable about N-95 masks!

My biggest concern about the average Joe donning one is that they will have a false sense of security and take unnecessary risks. Likewise, I fear that a lot of the infected front line workers got that way from an improperly fitted mask. Like scuba gear and parachutes, they must be properly fitted and properly used 100% of the time. I’ve always hated wearing those masks and always worried about this.

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Have you noticed all the "fitting challenges" people are having with the full array of masks which only cover the mouth and not the nose? LOL, but really isn't funny at all. They swab up the nose for a reason.

It's not just the hoi polloi either. Very early in this outbreak (January!) I laid in a stock of PPE. By a stroke of good luck, my son-in-law is actually a sales rep for a major supplier of such equipment in the southwestern US. Among the items I purchased was a full up N95 mask, including a professional fitting and instructions on how to sanitize it after use. recently i went for a routine doctor's visit wearing that mask and the receptionist/nurse told me that the mask was not acceptable because 'It had a valve" and was no use in protecting either me or anybody else. She instead gave me an ill-fitting piece of paper on a string which made no contact with my face on either side and thus did nothing to filter either the air I was breathing in or that which I was exhaling. I told this to my doctor and showed her the two masks. She just shook her head and said she'd have to have a talk with her staff. On every scale, from the national to the decidedly local, we are on our own people. Take care of yourselves.

AZBuck

The valve allows unfiltered air to enter the room.

See CDC q&a page.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topi...ealthcare.html

Now read the FIRST question and answer on that site, regarding the 'surgical' mask I was given instead.

AZBuck

I just got back from a visit to my wife's neurosurgeon and since I had just seen and responded as above, we took along three different masks. He was wearing a fourth type. His recommendations, in order:

1) KN95 mask with no valve (what he was wearing since he's in contact with patients all day)
2) KN95 mask with valve
3) surgical mask, tightly fitted
4) cloth mask

Look, all masks will offer some protection and are MUCH better than nothing. Debating relative merits of different types is counter productive and leads to some thinking that since there is debate they might as well wear nothing. No, the simple answer is WEAR A MASK during the pandemic, the best you can lay your hands on, but in any case WEAR A MASK.

AZBuck

Wearing of masks in public spaces is mandatory where I live, and in an ever-increasing number of other places as well. There are four things I can say about these "Mask Up" mandates:

1.) Wearing a mask in public spaces is the best, smartest thing you can do as an individual to help slow the spread of this terrible disease

2.) Mandatory mask policies have absolutely nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with preserving our quality of life

3.) The greater good--public health--is far more important than your freedom to feel the wind on your cheeks (or whatever other idiotic excuse you might have for refusing to cooperate).

Last but not least (and my personal favorite):

4.) The stupid people are so much easier to spot now! (When I see one, I give them a very wide berth ;-)


Rick

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Originally Posted by AZBuck

Now read the FIRST question and answer on that site, regarding the 'surgical' mask I was given instead.

AZBuck

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The surgical mask you were given was not to protect you; it was to protect others in the waiting room.

The “N95” mask you walked in with would offer you some personal protection, especially if it had been professionally fit tested. What made it unacceptable was that valve. Because of the valve, you were NOT protecting others in the room. In fact, you could have been putting others at risk by wearing that mask.

Once you donned the mask they gave you, you WERE protecting others in the room. Of course, it offered you no personal protection.

Had you worn a real N95 mask, it would have protected both you and the others in the room.

Show that response to your doctor.

Please re-read my initial comment in this discussion. I DID show my primary physician both masks, the KN95 mask I wore into her office and the surgical mask her receptionist insisted I wear. Her response was that I was correct and that she would have to have a talk with her personnel. So that's two MDs who have agreed that a KN95 mask, even with a valve, is better than a surgical mask. I will continue to follow their advice.

Also re-read the discussion about these 'debates' being counter-productive. They are.

WEAR A MASK.

AZBuck

One other option in that particular situation would be to have left the valve mask on, and then covered it with the surgical mask they provided.

That would (or at least it seems) provide the best protection, as the valve mask protects you (not letting you breathe in anything bad) but opens when you exhale (which lets out anything you might have), while the surgical layer over top stops/slows what you let out through the valve (protecting others) while not doing much for you.

So you have one layer protecting you and the other protecting the rest of the people in the room.

Obviously, not something most would do or go as far as to obtain, but in a situation where both were available...

I am not a medical expert, but I have used N95's with valves for years because of the kind of buildings I have "crawled" (inspected) as part of disaster response and property management. The valve, as I understand it, is mostly to ease the discomfort of the wearer in low air flow situations.

But I think we're getting away from the point here.

For COVID-19, unless one is a medical, front-line worker, the purpose of a mask is to reduce the incidence of respiratory droplets issued from our noses/mouths from landing on other people.

By and large, no mask of any kind, generally available to the public, is going to protect "me." Viruses are not stopped by masks, without extraordinary measures -- custom-fitted and used with face plates.

Intuitively, (and that's the extent of my knowledge), I would think that wearing a N95 with a valve would not offer the same level of "protection" to other people that a non-valve N95 does. But any kind of mask does prevent the easier transmission of respiratory droplets from our bodies to others.

My brother manages a series of medical clinics -- by and large -- his front-line medical evaluators are using N95 (without valves) and face plates -- but they all acknowledge that short of wearing full-on, air-supplied respirators, they are not truly protected.

I know that there has been some somewhat heated discussion about the relatively validity of different kinds of masks herein. Bottom-line -- wearing a mask is an "implied statement of intent" that we all in this together and that we are looking out for each other. But arguing about the efficacy of what kind of mask or another -- in my view, that's not a priority for me.

This forum will continue to provide a "safe" place to discuss the specifics of these troubling times. But I don't think there is truly a "correct" point of view.

I have a small supply a N95 valves and valveless for crawling hazardous attics -- but when I go out in public, I use a cloth neck gaiter -- No expectation that I will be protected against any nasty virus molecules.

Mark

One more bit of advice, which you are free to ignore and whatever sort of mask you wear. Take a look at it and if it's 'surgical-like' it will have a central covering with over-ear loops on either side:
. _
(|_|)

Most people will just casually put the loops over their ears and be on their way. But you can get a much tighter fit by first putting the mask up to your face, positioning the bottom below your chin and the top over your nose. (Note: the 'top' will/should be the edge with an embedded piece of plastic or metal that can be bent to the shape of your nose bridge.) Now, rather than just pulling the loops around your ears 'as is', give each loop a half twist as you put it over its respective ear. This will have the bottom of the mask attached to the top of your ears and top of the mask attached to the bottom, making a much tighter and better fitting covering.

AZBuck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AZBuck

One more bit of advice, which you are free to ignore and whatever sort of mask you wear. Take a look at it and if it's 'surgical-like' it will have a central covering with over-ear loops on either side:
. _
(|_|)

Most people will just casually put the loops over their ears and be on their way. But you can get a much tighter fit by first putting the mask up to your face, positioning the bottom below your chin and the top over your nose. (Note: the 'top' will/should be the edge with an embedded piece of plastic or metal that can be bent to the shape of your nose bridge.) Now, rather than just pulling the loops around your ears 'as is', give each loop a half twist as you put it over its respective ear. This will have the bottom of the mask attached to the top of your ears and top of the mask attached to the bottom, making a much tighter and better fitting covering.

AZBuck

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And hopefully keep the mask from sliding down off one's nose during talking (that is one benefit of the tie behind the head method).