1st Road Trip from LA - Denver

Hello

I am from Colombia, South america. Have travelled road trips with my parents in the US, but this will be the 1st one with my wife.

i am planning to drive from LA to Denver, in 10 days early November. The following is my trip details:

1. LA (3 nights LA)
2. LA - Sequioa NP. (1 night SNP)
3. Sequioa - DV - Las Vegas (2 nights LV)
4. Vegas - Zion (2 nights Zion)
5. Zion - Moab ( 1 night MOAB)
6. Moab - Denver. (1 night Denver)

I have some issues about the drive for the number 3, from Sequioa to Vegas through Death Valley. I have heard that it takes more than 8 hours and maybe more. Don´t know if maybe I should skip Deah Valley and take a more direct road. Need help with this.

Also, would like some information about the weather on early November for this part of the US. Any other tip for this trip. What do you guys think of this itinerary?

Hope to here from someone.
Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

I think you've got an ok start, with plenty of room to make some improvements.

Quote:

---

2. LA - Sequioa NP. (1 night SNP)
3. Sequioa - DV - Las Vegas (2 nights LV)

---

Yes, This part is a bit of a problem. Sequoia to Vegas without going through Death Valley is about 8 hours all by itself. Going through Death Valley means 10-12 hours of driving, not including time to actually explore Death Valley.

However, you've also got a bit of an issue on the day you're planning to visit Sequoia - it's a good 5 hours to get from LA to Sequoia, so even there, you really aren't giving yourself much time to actually see Sequoia, especially noting the shorter amount of daylight available in November (about 10 hours of daylight a day - 2 hours less than you see in Colombia at that time of year).

Quote:

---

5. Zion - Moab ( 1 night MOAB)
6. Moab - Denver. (1 night Denver)

---

You've got a similar problem here. You're looking at 6 hours of driving for each of those days, which doesn't leave much time left to explore the Moab area. Not impossible, but very rushed.

Also keep in mind, yes, in November you will have to be mindful of the weather, as snow or ice will be possible, especially in high elevation areas - in your case, Sequoia and the drive from Moab to Denver are the areas where you are most likely to potentially have to deal with snow.

Is there a reason you have to end in Denver? It seems like you're stretching yourself a bit thin as it is, and it could be easier, cheaper, and more rewarding to finish in Las Vegas. If you could cut down the miles a bit, it would give you a chance to actually enjoy the places you're planning to visit, and potentially include some alternate stops, like the Grand Canyon or Bryce Canyon to name a couple of possibilities.

Thanks for your answer Michael.
What change in itinerary would you suggest between LA and Las vegas, knowing the stops I want to have.

I really do not have to end in Denver. Was just fond of driving through that part. I could maybe do Vegas - Zion - Bryce - Moab and then back to Vegas.

I do not really have a grip of the distances so any suggestions will help.

Other option would be to not go to Sequoia or DV and myabe enjoy better the parks in Utah. That is what I have been thinking.

If you did a Vegas loop you could do as you say above, but head back via Monument valley and Grand canyon south rim. If you stuck to your original outline of LA to Denver I would consider cutting out Sequoia NP and leave LA on the afternoon a day earlier (2 nights LA) and head to Lone Pine. The next morning you would then explore Death valley on route to Vegas. Then after 2 nights in Vegas leave early for Zion and spend the rest of the day and half the following day around the park before heading on to Bryce canyon for the night. That would give you 2 nights in Moab and a full day to check out Arches and possibly Grand view point in Canyonlands.
Between Bryce and Moab you could travel UT scenic 12 and stop briefly at Capitol Reef NP. When you leave Moab for I-70 take the scenic drive on UT128 through Castle valley, you may have time to drive the rim road of Colorado National monument.

So like this.
LA 2 nights
Lone Pine 1 night
Las Vegas 2 nights.
Zion 1 night
Bryce 1 night
Moab 2nights
Denver 1 night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nykogut

I do not really have a grip of the distances so any suggestions will help.

---

The best thing you can do before you go any further with your planning is get hold of some good maps of the South West US, or a good road atlas such as Rand McNally. If these are not available locally, you could purchase an atlas from the RTA store via the link at the bottom of this page. If you order it now you will have it in a week or two. It is essential to have good paper maps when on the road, so you may as well have them while planning your trip. It is not wise to put all your faith in electronics. They have been known to lead people astray.

When you have the maps it is a lot easier to get a good grip on distances than on a tiny screen. The maps will also show you the many routes from which you may choose and highlight the scenic routes. They show you the attractions along your way, in between the many major attractions you will visit..... and much more.

Lifey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nykogut

Thanks for your answer Michael.
What change in itinerary would you suggest between LA and Las vegas, knowing the stops I want to have.

I really do not have to end in Denver. Was just fond of driving through that part. I could maybe do Vegas - Zion - Bryce - Moab and then back to Vegas.

I do not really have a grip of the distances so any suggestions will help.

---

The round trip loop trip is likely your best option and ends of being a proof of the saying, "Less is more." You will also have more flexibility in accommodating your wife's feelings about a first long road trip. Additionally, car rentals are often a lot less expensive using the same departure and return cities (no drop-off fees, extra mileage costs, etc.).

Google Maps (or Bing Maps and others) are useful planning aids. The travel times are not based upon real-life speeds but on speed limits (they do not count gas, meal time, picture taking, etc.) so add 20 to 30 percent. AAA also has a Trip-Tik map feature that is useful in travel road tripping (see https://triptik.aaa.com/home/index.html).

https://www.visitutah.com/ has a ton of information for the area you have expressed interest. Other websites highlight scenic drives (e.g., https://www.myscenicdrives.com/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Scenic_Byway and others). The AAA TripTik also shows scenic by-ways but you need to zoom in for them to appear.

You have the making of a great trip from Las Vegas-Zion-Moab-Monument Valley-Grand Canyon-Las Vegas... many sights along the way, so much that even ten days barely does it justice!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by landmariner

Google Maps (or Bing Maps and others) are useful planning aids. The travel times are not based upon real-life speeds but on speed limits (they do not count gas, meal time, picture taking, etc.) so add 20 to 30 percent. AAA also has a Trip-Tik map feature that is useful in travel road tripping (see https://triptik.aaa.com/home/index.html).

https://www.visitutah.com/ has a ton of information for the area you have expressed interest. Other websites highlight scenic drives (e.g., https://www.myscenicdrives.com/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Scenic_Byway and others). The AAA TripTik also shows scenic by-ways but you need to zoom in for them to appear.

---

I'd have to thoroughly agree with all that; and we all use them. But for someone on their first long roadtrip, to get a good grip on the distances, and where things are in relation to the others, only the BIG picture will help, and only good paper maps can give that picture

Lifey.

Respectfully, Lifey, but there are no "only's" that "only paper" or "only electronic," in doing this stuff.

When I first started doing road trip planning for summer camping trips some 25 years ago, it was actually a CD-based trip planning program that brought me to my senses in scaling down my trip objectives. It is true that for different people different tools can work optimally, but the principle is not necessarily universal.

Paper maps, however, are always in my trip bag because one just does not know when the bad guys might shoot down or hack the GPS system!!! Which also brings to mind that I find a hand held Google Maps as a necessary adjunct to a GPS, or until my Garmin's UI is as slick as cellphone maps in zooming in and out.

Landmariner brings up a good point. These days, it helps to have different sources to use when planning and executing a trip. Personally, we use a combination of road atlas maps and Google maps to lay out a basic trip, then we go get the paper maps from AAA, and then we start planning the day-to-day attack, using the paper maps and Google maps. When we are actually on the road, an atlas is in the vehicle, plus the paper maps we need, along with our smartphones and the Garmin GPS. The latter is used when we are trying to find something in a city.


Donna

With a modern Android phone, I don't see a need for a separate GPS. Google Maps with navigation is every bit as capable as a Garmin, and easier to program with voice recognition. The only downside may be screen size.

(say) OK Google
(say) 1234 Main Street *or say* Walmart
(say) Take me there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glc

With a modern Android phone, I don't see a need for a separate GPS. Google Maps with navigation is every bit as capable as a Garmin, and easier to program with voice recognition. The only downside may be screen size.

(say) OK Google
(say) 1234 Main Street *or say* Walmart
(say) Take me there

---

Signal, Signal, Signal. Garmin GPS is better at pulling in a signal than cell phone data in many parts of the country. And the larger screen is gentler on old eyes ;) I absolutely road trip with BOTH!

There is no difference in getting the GPS signal, and if you are going into an area with no cell coverage you can preload offline maps.

My Android tablet takes care of the screen size issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glc

There is no difference in getting the GPS signal, and if you are going into an area with no cell coverage you can preload offline maps.

My Android tablet takes care of the screen size issue.

---

My android phone doesn't do as well on GPS as my Garmin and my tablet is WiFi only. I find it is next to impossible to download map with sufficient resolution to substitute for a good GPS unit. I do try to download European city and some countryside maps to my android tablet but seldom get the resolution I want for all the areas of a city I might be in... so rely upon Paper Maps!!!

P.S. There are voice-activated and -commanded Garmin units these days.

Data. Data. Data. Using Google Maps, or iMaps, on the phone uses data. If you get by with a small, minimum plan, you may go over your data allowance if you rely completely on the phone. With a Garmin or other separate GPS unit, there's no data involved. And like has been suggested, the screen is bigger. :-)


Donna

I think the android phone GPS can work in a reduced manner without data or WiFi, but its navigational capabilities are greatly diminished in resolution and time-delay. And data connectivity in places like the northern Wyoming mountains is non-existent. Nonetheless, all part of a modern road tripping tool set.

Google Maps provides me with GPS lat/lon coordinates that can be entered into my Garmin and show me the way, very helpful for both end-points and way-points.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. People should use whatever device they're most comfortable with, whatever makes the most sense for their circumstances. The watchword is redundancy: always carry paper maps as a backup! (That advice is repeated frequently on this forum; anybody who's new to road tripping should take it very seriously.)

Rick

Thanks to all. This ended up in another way that what I was expecting but I will take your advice seriously with the paper maps!

Any other itinerary suggestions would be welcome!

I would recommend you decide on the basic stuff first, like if you want to do the trip to Denver, or a loop out of Vegas and what your personal 'must see's' are as all trips are unique and this one is yours ! Once you have finalised that part we can certainly help fill in the blanks and answer any further questions. There are no bad choices, just lots of great options so follow your gut feeling.

In looking at a road trip focused on Utah, Colorado and Northern Arizona, you have about 3 gateway cities depending upon your interests, airline flight options and rental car pricing at the airports in Las Vegas, Salt Lake City and Denver. Weather might be another constraint in planning a trip from any of those three cities if for no other reason than some of the areas you would want to visit may not be practical due to elevations that become very cold even in early November.

For example, Utah Route 12 is a beautiful, scenic drive but elevations bring cold weather early and many hotels and restaurants shut down as winter approaches. For historical weather temps and conditions this site can be very useful (search for Escalante, Utah and then selection Historical Averages): http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx?month=11
On the other hand, if you like the area there is so much to see and do that another trip can be planned.

Hofbrauhaus in Las Vegas was better than expected. We were there on an uncrowded afternoon in mid-October which was nice. From Las Vegas there is a nice scenic drive to the Valley of Fire State Park.

There are a multitude of sights in the region: Zion National Park (NP), Bryce Canyon NP, Capitol Reef NP, Arches NP, Canyonlands NP, Mesa Verde NP, Monument Valley, Lake Powell & Glen Canyon Damn, Navajo Bridge, Grand Canyon South Rim (North Rim closes in October), and more.

Many people acquire a USA or regional map (e.g., Indian Country Guide Map covers New Mexico; Arizona; Colorado; Utah) and stick pins or magic marker dots to help lay out a draft itinerary. Another option is using Google Maps and saving "favorites" such as the green "Want to Go" for your priorities and then plotting out a road plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

I would recommend you decide on the basic stuff first, like if you want to do the trip to Denver, or a loop out of Vegas and what your personal 'must see's' are as all trips are unique and this one is yours ! Once you have finalised that part we can certainly help fill in the blanks and answer any further questions. There are no bad choices, just lots of great options so follow your gut feeling.

---

Hi Dave. Thanks for asking.

The trip I really want to be doing and that i first thought about was LA-Vegas-Zion-Bryce-Moab-Denver. Which is fine for me. But, then I read about the roads to Denver and maybe snow so I thought about getting to Vegas, and doing the loop, maybe to zion, bryce and moab and then getting back to Vegas.

I friend of mine was talking to me about Sequioa NP, and that got me wanting to go there too. But as you say, the less places you go, the better so i can get to know more. Still want to go though.

Would like to saty in park lodges and take small hikes and really get the feeling of driving around but also to sleep and wake up in these magical places. Do not want to be on the road all the time. Just enjoy as much as we can without overdoing it in 10 days.

Quote:

---

The trip I really want to be doing and that i first thought about was LA-Vegas-Zion-Bryce-Moab-Denver. Which is fine for me. But, then I read about the roads to Denver and maybe snow

---

Well it's true there is a risk of snow heading to Denver but the same risk applies to Sequoia NP, Bryce canyon and other places. As we can't predict the weather it does make an itinerary harder to decide on when travelling off season. The good thing is the Colorado road crews are good at what they do as they get plenty of practice and have the right equipment and I-70 is a priority to keep the Nations traffic moving. I did lay out one possible itinerary for this trip earlier in the thread.

Quote:

---

Vegas, and doing the loop, maybe to zion, bryce and moab and then getting back to Vegas. Do not want to be on the road all the time. Just enjoy as much as we can without overdoing it in 10 days.

---

This is where the 'balancing act' comes in, finding the ideal solution that matches your needs, too much or too little is different for everyone. Some like to stay in the same place for 2 or 3 days and others like to travel through and get an overview, possibly with future trips in mind. That's why I suggested you get the basics done and then we can get a better picture of what you want to do and help with the finer detail. Your first itinerary could work, but you could feel like you are pushing on too quickly as we touched on earlier in the thread.

From Vegas you could do something like this.
Vegas (1 night)
Zion. (2 nights)
Bryce canyon (1 night)
Capital Reef via UT scenic 12 (1 night)
Moab (Arches and Canyonlands) 2 nights
Grand canyon south rim (2 nights)
Vegas (1 night)

You could also consider heading from Vegas through Death valley to Yosemite NP and Sequoia NP and possibly include the Grand canyon but you would run a higher risk of weather disruption and possibly road closures in the Sierra's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nykogut

Would like to saty in park lodges and take small hikes and really get the feeling of driving around but also to sleep and wake up in these magical places. Do not want to be on the road all the time. Just enjoy as much as we can without overdoing it in 10 days.

---

That's always one of the tough parts about planning - finding that balance between getting to all the places you want to see and making sure you actually have enough time to enjoy the places you will be visiting.

If it were me, I think I'd be looking at doing either Sequoia or Moab. If you are going to visit Sequoia, then I think you'll be too rushed to make it out to Moab, but if you want to get to Moab then I think Sequoia is probably too much of a detour. (If you go to Moab, then continuing onto Denver would be shorter than returning to Vegas.)

A third option would be to basically eliminate Los Angeles to have more time to explore these places. Keeping in mind, in your original plan, you had 6 of your 10 nights in major cities, and if that's what you want to focus on, then it just doesn't leave as much time for nature.

Made my desicion. Took LA and Denver out of the picutre. I will land in San Francisco stay there for 3 nights. Have some friends where i can stay.

Then I will be off to Sequoia NP. I will stay one night in one of the lodges inside the park. Maybe the Montecito (any reviews).

Next day will drive to Death Valley NP. Looking for a place to stay. The oasis in Furnace Creek is a expensive for my budget. So looking for other options.

Next day to Vegas. Stay 2 nights. Then drive to Zion NP. Stay for 2 nights.

Then one night to Bryce Canyon and back to Vegas. Take flight there back to my country 2 days later through SF.

Trying not to do over do it, staying the nights recommended. Still need some tips on places to stay. Not the camping type.

Thanks to all for your help.

Have you considered going from DV direct to Zion and then just enjoy Vegas at the end of your trip ? I would also consider Yosemite NP as you are starting from SF. I would actually choose it over Sequoia NP and hope that the Tioga Pass is open (CA120) and cross the mountains and down to Death valley. I would also consider dropping Bryce canyon as great as it is. Whether you choose Yosemite or Sequoia your are back to the original problem of not having enough time to enjoy either park with the drives either side of your night stay. Bryce being the 'out of the way' option or you could leave SF a day earlier. For DV lodging you could look at Panamint Springs or Stovepipe Wells or else it will be Lone Pine before, or Pahrump after your visit.

I agree with Dave, if you're starting from San Francisco, then I'd certainly include Yosemite within your plans. There are groves of Sequoia Trees within Yosemite if that's your primary reason for going to Sequoia.

Quote:

---

back to Vegas. Take flight there back to my country 2 days later through SF.

---

This part has me a bit confused. Your planning to spend 2 days in Vegas, then go to Utah, and then go back to Vegas for another 2 days? Or are you flying back to SF and spending 2 more days there?

Either way, rather than using those 2 days to spend more time in a city, I'd use it to spend more time in the parks - perhaps doing both Sequoia and Yosemite or adding the Grand Canyon to your plans (which I'd probably consider doing instead of Bryce anyway).

Zion NP or Bryce Canyon NP, tough choice and a very subjective choice. My wife and I both liked Bryce more than Zion, and would recommend two or three full days at Bryce, only one needed at Zion, unless you go on some long hikes. We let the weather dictate our choices: we visited Bryce during the summer due its much higher altitude and Zion during the Fall (much lower altitude) [The Zion/Bryce Canyon area ranges from 3,000 feet in elevation in Zion, to 8,000 and 9,000 feet elevation in Bryce Canyon.]

Zion NP has a number of hotels and eateries and outfitters right outside the gate. The gateway motels/restaurants were fewer in number and a little further for Bryce but not terribly so.

The truth is guys, I have already been to Yosemite when I was younger. I went there with my parents so I would like to get to Sequoia NP. Thinking about your advice on leaving SF one day earlier so i can get to the parks one more day.
From Vegas, thinking of driving straight to Bryce canyon and then come back to Zion.

I have to take a plane back from vegas to SF. that was what you were asking because my plain leaves from SF. Planning on spending one last night in SF. So will continue with inital idea of 2 nights in SF, 1 night in Sequoia, 1 in Death, 2 in vegas, and then see how i will do with bryce and zion becasue of all the mixed reviwes i have read about how many days you should spend in these 2 parks.

For a November trip you probably will be better off in the lower elevation Zion.

Bryce temps: http://www.intellicast.com/Local/His...ation=USUT0030
The higher elevations in Bryce would be even colder.

Zion temps: http://www.intellicast.com/Local/His...ation=USUT9755

Yes it's your trip and you must go with what works for you and your gut feeling and that's why each trip is unique to the individual and why you will get different opinions on things like 'Bryce or Zion'. Both parks are magnificent in there own way and I love both, but I enjoyed many short walks and easy strolls in Zion that were not long hikes but took up time ( Along the Virgin river, Emerald pools, Weeping rock for example) and in Bryce the beauty for me was from the overlooks that were all close to the road, the rim trail and Bryce Amphitheater. We arrived late afternoon and walked around the rim between Sunrise and Sunset points and the next morning drove to the far end of the canyon and visited all the viewpoints on the way back which puts them all on your side of the road and saves crossing traffic at every stop. We then strolled down a way to the Queens garden, went to Bryce Amphitheater and stood in awe for ages before departing later in the day. If you can split your time between the two you can't really go wrong but be aware that Bryce can be really cold because of elevation. I would still say you will get more time at them if you go from DV to Zion and spend your 2 nights in LV before flying back to SF.

Have a great trip !

I would drive from LV back to SF to avoid the cost of an airline ticket and the one way drop fee on the car. You could also see Sequoia on your way back if you do this.

That thought had crossed my mind initially but with Zion and Bryce included in the timeline plus the time the op wants to spend in SF and LV it would be difficult to make it work.