buying and insuring a vehicle

Hello all,
I have just found this site and after reading though a few posts it looks to be fantastic!
I will start with an introduction, my name is Jamie, my wife Hannah and I are from New Zealand, we are currently in France at the end of a 6 month, 25,000km trip through 16 countries in europe and UK in a tiny camper bought in London and fitted out on the cheap.

We leave for New York on the 7th of october to start the America part of our trip.
We would like to buy a Ford e-series conversion or similar vehicle for a roadtrip through california and some of its surrounding states, then on to mexico over approximatley a 6 month period leaving around the beginning of december.
Hannah is an American citizen although she has never lived there and she has family in California.

Any advice or opinions on the following would be really appreciated

We are assuming it will be easier and cheaper for hannah to buy and Insure the van in her name as she is a citizen?

will it be benificial for her to sit her American Drivers Licence?
(we both have aa international driving permits, full NZ and Australian licences)

Taking into account we have family and a base and an address in California is this the best, cheapest place to buy and insure a van?

Any advice or links on Buying, licencing and insuring vehicles would be greatly appreciated

Kind Regards
Jamie

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

Purchasing a car as a non-resident is extremely difficult, and actually not usually cost effective because most foreign visits are limited to 3 months - which isn't long enough to get back the costs of purchasing.

If you're going to be here 6 months (you do have your visa lined up already, right?), and your wife is a U.S. citizen, then purchasing a vehicle should be much easier for you.

I would recommend that she get a US Drivers License, which will make everything much easier. Having an address available to use in California could also make things easier, although California is state with high taxes and tough regulations, so that might not be the ideal place. California also wouldn't be real helpful if you are starting out in New York, because you'd have to fly to CA to start to get all the license and other paperwork sorted out. I would look at what rules NY and other northeastern states have to prove you live in the state, and see if you could qualify for a license in that part of the country.

Once she has a US Drivers License, purchasing, registering, licensing, and insuring the vehicle should really be pretty easy, and there really shouldn't be any restrictions on buying whatever you want. Insurance may be a little more expensive, because she doesn't have a US driver record, but otherwise, purchasing the car should be a pretty straightforward experience.

thanks heaps for the quick reply michael!
we were expecting tofly or bus NY to chicago then to LA where the car hunt would begin
we have looked into getting a licence there and have been told Hannah would need to do a theory and its up to the lady/man on the desk at the time weather she has to do a practical.
certainly a bit harder than getting our Auzzi licences (show kiwi full -> get licence)
but I Guess thats to be expected
because I have been away from home for so long we were unable to sort my visa before we left so unfortunatly I will be on a 3 month
we had planned to spend that 3 months exploring around california then drivie to mexico/central america for the next three.
we have friends in mexico where we were planning on leaving the vehicle while we backpacked south america, then return with the hope i will be able to get a fresh 3 month visa.
if not hannah will return to her family to sell the car and I will fly home

none of it is as planned or orginised as I would like but this whole trip came about over the course of three weeks things fell into place so we jumped on a plane and left
we have been planning on the fly
stressful, exciting, spontanious its been a blast

if it all turns to custard we will stick to backpacks hostels busses and cheap flights
but we are determined to give it a go

the freedom of a vehicle in europe has been expensive but we are very happy we pulled it off

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammah

we had planned to spend that 3 months exploring around california then drivie to mexico/central america for the next three.
we have friends in mexico where we were planning on leaving the vehicle while we backpacked south america, then return with the hope i will be able to get a fresh 3 month visa.
i

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You need to be aware that when you enter the US on the VWP you have to have a valid ticket exiting the NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT within 90 days. Going to Mexico will not be allowed. Going direct to South America will work. You should be able to get another 90 days on your re entry to the US from South America.

Lifey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lifemagician

You need to be aware that when you enter the US on the VWP you have to have a valid ticket exiting the NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT within 90 days

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Hi lifey! I have read through allot of your posts
Your van looks amazing what a find! Hard work and reaserch payed off!

We are aware of the visa rules I have a fully refundable air new Zealand flight back to NZ within my 90 days
Which I will cancel when I'm in the country
Cost three times the normal flight but fully refundable with no fees so no problem
It was either that or tearing up a $100 spirit flight to Costa Rica

I am hoping to find a similar van to you, probably not as nice. Though as I only have 5-6k to spend on it.

I find the hunt just as much fun as the trip itself!

Cheers
Jamie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammah

I find the hunt just as much fun as the trip itself!

Cheers
Jamie

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And with the help from this wonderful community, I could never have done it. We have just clocked up 75000 miles together. She's going into storage tomorrow.

Lifey

p.s. I have never had an international licence.

Yep lifey google led me to that thread its how I found the forum!
And the reason I signed up!
75,000 miles is a hell of a lot
Hats off to you :)

Cheers
Jamie

So a bit more research and with the proof of address requirements we are thinking it will be best to get the drivers license in CA.
Plan is to head into a social security office in new York and apply for Hannah's social security number, we read online it will take 7 days for them to post it so if we give her California address when we get to California she will have
- us passport
- social security number
- something official addressed to her California address with her name on it (proof of address)

That should be all she needs to get her California drivers license

Here's hoping she doesn't have to sit a practical test! It does seem a bit silly, I mean if we are allowed to rent a car and drive on the roads with international licences then surely they are accepted as valid proof of competency so all that should be neccacary should be an admin fee and proof of identity.
Should be but probably not

My next question! :)
With California license in hand can we buy a vehicle and change ownership in a different state?

Thanks heaps

Jamie

You can sell the vehicle in any state as long as you have the title (pink slip) in hand.

According to the CA DMV website, she will need to take a behind-the-wheel test. It says that people with a license from another country will have to take the test. The test could be waived if the license was from another state. Since it looks like you need to make an appointment for that portion, so I'd just plan to do it.

Quote:

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With California license in hand can we buy a vehicle and change ownership in a different state?

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Yes, but you'll probably have to get the car licensed and registered back in California when you buy it. Usually, you can get a temporary, transit permit to drive it for up to a month until you can get that taken care of. However, an additional note, California does have more strict rules for smog testing than most states. You'll have to look under the hood and look for a sticker saying it passes California or 50 state emmissions, and not just Federal Law. Most cars do have this these days, however, even with that, it will still have to pass a smog test before you'll get your license plates.

Once you have the car registered, you can sell it in any state. You'll just need to make sure you have a copy of the title to transfer to the new owner.

CA resident here: YES, a written test is required. If you move in from another state, the written test is required anyway (I had to take it when I moved here!). They don't call this the Nanny State for nothing!!! And yes, make an appointment, or you'll be standing in line for hours and hours. The behind-the-wheel tests are definitely by-appointment-only and you have to either have taken and passed the written test, or get the waiver.

If the vehicle gets to a certain age (10 years, we think), the vehicle will probably be required to go to a certain type of smog station for its test. Even if it was just smogged a month before, the smog is required to be done right after purchase.

Don't try to buy a vehicle in one state and then register it in California. THAT is a headache. I know, we just did that when we inherited a vehicle outside of CA and brought it here. What a pain in the tush!


Donna

Thanks heaps guys/gals!
So it looks like hannah has to go back to being a teenager again and sit a driving test :)
I'm sure she will be fine!
Funny thing is I have my full Car my full heavy truck and my full motorcycle but it looks like it will be her doing the driving!
It also sounds like we are stuck looking for a vehicle in California as its the only place we have an address.
The only other option we might have is we have a friend in Arizona who we might be able to stay with for long enough to sort licenses I'll have to look into it.
Thanks again all

Much appreciated!

Jamie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midwest Michael

Yes, but you'll probably have to get the car licensed and registered back in California when you buy it.

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Jammah, only a couple of weeks ago I spoke with a family from Sydney in a motor home which they had bought over the internet from a private owner... bought it in CA registered it in MT - through the same attorney who did mine.

Send me an email, and I will give you a contact. All hassle free and very little expense. As well as permanent registration... no ongoing expense to renew each year.

Lifey

Email sent lifey!!
Sounds like a fantastic option
Thanks heaps
Jamie

Hi guys and gals!
My wife hannah and I are in Chicago at the moment we are on the hunt for a van
It must be tidy, more than 20 years old, under 3.5 ton (7000 lb), be free of rust, and prefer under 100,000 miles.

The age and weight are so it meets the requirements for us to export it back to new Zealand when we are done

We are headed towards Oregon over the next week looking at vans as we go, I've found a few around Chicago but the salt makes most too rusty

It is a shame as it seems easy here to buy a vehicle here without a USA drivers license

If anyone knows of anything I'm all ears!

Cheers
James

Moderator Note: Please don't create multiple threads about the same topic

Finding a van in Chicago that's 20+ years old, rust free, and most important, roadworthy is going to be a very difficult task. Finding one under 100,000 miles might make it impossible. You're looking for a very specific, and rare, vehicle, and while you might be able to find one, you are setting yourself up for a bit of a needle in a haystack.

If you do find one, I'd grab it quickly - after taking it to a mechanic for a full inspection. Keep in mind, if you're registering it in Chicago, it probably also needs to pass an emissions test. I also question how easy it will be to title and register a car in Illinois, without an Illinois Drivers License, but I do know that IL does require you to have insurance to register the car, so make sure you also have that lined up in advance.

Illinois requires proof of residency, which I doubt you can legally provide. Emission testing is not required to register the vehicle, but you will receive a notice shortly afterward in the mail at your registered address requiring a test. Title and registration fees for one year are about $200. There are also sales taxes.

Considering how long it took to find mine, and I was looking in all 48 States, not just one city, I'm not holding my breath for you. Can't say at the time we saw anything much in or near Chicago. If it were me, I'd be looking further afield as well. Can always take a cheap bus ride or flight to pick it up. Everything else can be arranged by phone.

Lifey

Edit:Thought you initially said you would be looking in CA? Three years ago, CA and FL seemed to have more than anywhere else.

I don't think a rust-free 20+ year old vehicle of any type exists anywhere near Chicago. Road salt is a killer anywhere it snows in the winter.

We went into the dmv and the lady told us all we need is insurance and photo I'd
To title and register


Moderator Note: Sorry, but posting links to ebay listings is not allowed on this forum.

My apologies moderator
I didn't realise

Without posting links guys
I have found two vans in IL
The first is a 6.2l diesel gmc beauville 74,000 miles
they are asking 6.5k
The second is a 78 chevy g20 done 41,000 miles asking 5k

Both are mint condition

You've found insurance without a US License, then? I still seriously question the answer you received, as it goes against the information you'll find on the state of illinois website.

As far as specific vehicles, it really is up to you to decide what looks interesting to you, and to have a mechanic inspect it to examine its roadworthiness. I will say, that I would never commit to buying a vehicle, on ebay or anywhere else, without seeing it in person, driving it, and getting it inspected. That is even more important when you are looking at vans that are more than 35 years old. The odds of them being in good condition at that age, without a premium price, is very unlikely.

You will need an ILLINOIS ADDRESS to title and register it in Illinois. There's no way around that, regardless of what you THINK the DMV told you. It has to be a documented physical address, it can't even be a post office box.

How do I know? I lived in Illinois for about 35 years and had a PO box. No good, I had to give them a street address in addition.

Thanks guys, I thought it seemed a bit too easy
Although I have to think how does it work if you are buying a vehicle to export? which is effectively what I am intending on doing. Surely on paper you have to own it in the states and it's perfectly reasonable that someone exporting doesn't have a local address
I have been pointed in the direction of a lawyer who will set up a Ltd company and buy the vehicle in that name but it costs $1300
My wife has an American passport I'm surprised it is so hard to buy a car

You can buy it no problem - it's just legally registering it so you can get license plates and drive it over here. That's the issue.

I guess we need to figure what the minimum requirements are to prove an address

Does anyone know what the rules are for Oregon? That's where we are headed next, no salt no sales tax
Sounds good to me

Even tougher.

From dmv.org:

Quote:

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You'll need to fill out a Certification of Oregon Residency or Domicile (Form 735-7182) and provide documents to prove Oregon residency. Any Oregon state tax return document will satisfy requirements. If you do not have tax return documents, you can provide any 2 documents (or more) form the following list:
Utility bills.
Property tax record.
Rental or lease agreement.
Any type of receipts or documents showing that you have been in Oregon for 6 months of the year.
Current bank/credit union account that has been active for at least 60 days.
Receipts of Oregon public assistance.
Oregon voter registration card.

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Dmv.org will answer your questions for any state.

Oh well its looking like the lawyer is the only option.
Where on the dmv website did you find that info?
I have spent hours on the site and have had no luck
I just tried again specific to oregan and couldn't find the info you just posted
I would like to wade through each state and see what the resedancy requirements are
Cheers
Really appreciate the help

Scratch that copy pasted your post and worked backwards
Sorted

Looks like proof of residency is not needed in Michigan and Montana has temporary resident options
I've been looking at too much of this stuff, starting to go cross eyed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jammah

Oh well its looking like the lawyer is the only option.

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Have you followed through with the contacts I sent you? Only a month or two ago I met an Australian family who had used the same attorney. But I would concentrate on purchasing privately. In many States dealers are forbidden to sell if you have it registered in Montana. That is mainly because local residents use the attorney to avoid sales tax on high ticket/luxury vehicles.

Lifey

Absolutely Lifey Kathy is lovely we are just making an honest attempt to avoid the $1300 lawyers fee as hannah is an american with a passport we really thought it was a possibility to buy a car without setting up a ltd company
Its all a bit ridiculous really but what do you do, their country their rules
We will get there

We are now in Milwaukee, found a few vehicles here worth a look and DMV website mentions nothing of prooving residency, looked at two today, no good :)
I have found Mississippi doesn't require proof and Washington does not either.
Washington is promising, there's a few possible vehicles and no salt!

If you are looking for old rust-free vehicles, you need to look in Arizona - the Phoenix area. You can indeed buy a vehicle in one state and title/register it in a different state. People do that all the time.

I'm quite certainly that you have to provide a Wisconsin Drivers License to license a vehicle in Wisconsin, and to get a WI License you have to prove your are a state resident.

Small update, tomorrow we hop on a train bound for Washington state!
Including a 3 hour stop over its a 48 hr journey! We are really looking forward to it!
Its getting cold here in Milwaukee! Time to head to the coast and then start our way down
Few vehicles to look at in WA!

Thanks for the heads up on Arizona glc I'll have a look!

The Empire Builder is a lovely train and route.

Enjoy

Lifey

I know you've focused on buying a van, but are you sure that even makes sense at this point of the trip?

You've already seen how difficult the process can be, and how much time it can take just to find a suitable vehicle. Since it would appear that you're already about a month into your 3 month trip, and you've gotten around without a car so far, I really think you might want to step back an reexamine your plan. At this point, you could probably rent a car for the remainder of your time in the US and it would actually be less expensive than buying, especially when you factor in the repair costs that are very likely going to come up with the kinds of vans you are looking at.

We made it, we have now a titled plated van sorted!

It ended up being 53.5 hours of train then bus journey to pick up the van. Vehicle unseen, deposit paid, it was a little nerve wracking!
But our ebay seller screening was spot on, you could just tell from the ad what the old owners were like.

If anything it's better than I expected
The seller ended up being an ex war veteran who is now a pastor who owns a ranch in north washington and spends his time off building shelters for orphans in central America
Amazing lovely people who took us out and bought us dinner when we got there because they thought we were nice :)

It's a 1990 horizon doge 250
Class b camper
Done 77,000 miles
The seller serviced the van yesterday and topped up the water tanks with water from their spring.
It is immaculate, everything works, brand new tyres, zero rust, zero oil leaks, the v8 purrs
And a very sharp price well under my budget of $5k registered, insured, titled, driving down the road

Very very happy

As far as titling and registration it was unbelievably simple
We walked into the dmv here with nothing but a signed title and registration from the seller and our Nz drivers licence
we told them clearly we are not residents and are intent on travelling
All they asked is pay the tax and provide a mailing address
We gave a california address
No problem at all
Walked out title in hand in 10 minutes

I must say a big thanks to everyone that helped on here that helped
Especially Lifey the insurance broker you recommended was absolutely fantastic

I hope that this info can help future people, I spent far too much time stressing about how hard and how things can't be done

It can be done and relatively simply

Yay time to hit the road!