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Hi All
We are a family of 6 from the UK planning a 4 week trip to the US this summer including a 10 day RV roadtrip visiting Mount Zion NP, Grand Canyon North Rim, Monument Valley and Bryce Canyon. I have read that the Cape Royal Drive at the North Rim is very scenic but have seen a post suggesting it isn't suitable for RVs, is this really the case?
Thanks in advance for any help!!
Mike
Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!
Cape Royal Drive itself is one of the great scenic drives in America, and ends at one of the best viewpoints of all for the Grand Canyon. BUT it is twisty with hair-pin turns, and has steep grades in spots. A good indication of how easy it is to drive is that even though it is only 13 miles long, most people take about 45 minutes to drive its complete length, for an average speed of only about 17 mph. Whether or not you should drive it in your RV is a matter of both your RV's dimensions and your own familiarity with the vehicle. If you were driving your own Class B rig, I'd say "By all means: Do it!" But if you're driving a Class A rental, this is probably going to be way too much of a challenge.
A couple of other things to note: Cape Royal Drive is going to be closed entirely from time to time this summer for repairs. The dates are listed on the NPS web site and you should check that out. Most people try to get to Cape Royal to catch the spectacular sunrises or sunsets. This makes the drive even more challenging for the oversized vehicle and you may need to factor the time-of-day into your decision on whether to attempt the drive or not.
AZBuck
An RV suitable for 6 people may be too large to take that road safely. I would consult with a ranger before attempting it.
Thanks for the replies. Our rental RV is going to be 30 feet. I'll take your advice and ask the rangers at the North Rim. I'm hoping it's going to be possible as it would be a real shame to miss out on the drive and the various associated trails.
Thirty feet is the length of two full-sized cars placed end-to-end. But your RV won't be articulated in the middle. And it will be wider. And heavier. Even if you could manage to negotiate the road, I suspect you would only be able to do so by taking both lanes on some of the sharper curves meaning that you'd be a significant traffic hazard to everyone else on the road. There are trade-offs to every choice we make in RoadTripping, as in life, and in this case the trade-off is carrying all the comforts of home with you in/as your vehicle and not being able to move that vehicle/house down every road that you would like.
AZBuck
I agree with Buck... there are trade-offs. I would hate to meet a 30' vehicle on that road. Many less experienced drivers might freak out.
Lifey
You're right on the limit!Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejay
"Vehicles longer than 30 feet (9 m) are not recommended on the roads to Cape Royal and Point Imperial"
- http://www.nps.gov/grca/parknews/upl...map-spread.pdf
Thanks for the link thats really helpful. As you say we will be right on the limit, I'll see what the local rangers say.
It's as much about the width with a class 'C' RV, normally in the region 8ft 4inches width. Two other potential problems with a class 'C' [the most popular rental] is that first of all everything behind the cab is wider than your driving position looking forward. The mirrors are a good guide when going through a gap that has sides, but not so good for judging the centre line of the road or the edge. You have to use the mirrors for that. The other thing you will need to be aware of is that on tight turns there is a lot of overhang behind the back wheels on a 30ft RV causing more 'swing out' than a shorter one, imagine turning yourself around with a small plank of wood on your shoulder, your going to hit anything that is too close. This is worth remembering with everday driving, especially when pulling away from petrol pumps and parked cars etc.
I have actually driven a 30ft RV where 'recommended' [not legally required] limits have been 22ft, but this has been out of peak season with a lot less traffic about and pretty sure a Ranger would not recommend it, but that would be an opinion. Much will depend on how you have adjusted and how confident you feel about getting out of a tight situation if the need arises. I have had to do so and I have witnessed the aftermath of a sports car hitting the side of an RV on the overhang behind the cab while travelling in the opposite direction on a mountain road. The impact looked to be right on the centre line of the road and impossible to say who was to blame, but at the end of the day, it probably spoiled both their vacations. None of this is meant to either encourage or discourage you, just some food for thought to make an informed decision. I should also mention that I have had a lot of experience with 40ft plus commercial vehicle units before driving an RV.
By the way, when driving an RV on 2 lane roads it is always best to use a safe pull out where possible to let any traffic held up behind you go past. Not only will you get a toot of the horn and a friendly wave [better than the International 2 finger salute ;-) ] it will take the pressure off of you.
One more thing. If you head out of Zion on the Mt Carmel highway [a beautiful drive] you will need to pay an extra fee to get through the tunnel and queue for a little while so they can stop traffic entering the other end. This is to allow you to drive down the centre and avoid taking the roof off on the sides of the arch. I hope you have booked your RV sites as the NP's are very popular with only a limited number of sites. [I know that's two things !] lol
Thanks for the info Dave it will be my first time in such a long vehicle so the tips are really helpful. Hopefully I can also find some useful online info/you-tube clips on RV driving.
I'll keep in mind your suggestion for easing traffic build up behind us.
We were hoping to go to the canyon overlook trail in Zion which I gather means taking a drive thru the tunnel but I e-mailed the rangers who suggested it was best avoided in an RV. I might check again when we get there.
We have booked all our RV sites, we only managed to get 2 of our 3 night north rim stay within the NP, the other night we'll be staying a few miles outside of the entrance to the park.
I'd also welcome any comments on whether driving up the moki dugway on the way from Monument Valley to Bryce is out of the question in such a large RV-it looks a bit hairy from what I've seen. BTW it's not that I'm seeking out the trickiest roads!!
Oh yes the Moki Dugway, have a look at this page. [You can find info on Bryce, Zion etc by scrolling through other pages back and forth.]
The tunnel in Zion really isn't a big problem and it is a spectacular drive. If you have any specific questions about RV'ing then ask away. If you want to share more details of your trip we might be able to make suggestions or help fine tune them.
Dave.
The Canyon overlook trail has very limited parking and you will be lucky to get an RV parked there. There is a bigger pull out further up the road at Checkaboard Mesa that might do but not sure how long the walk back would be.
The OP is from England, so presumably the RV will be rented. There will almost certainly be a clause in the rental agreement forbidding the use of the vehicle on unpaved roads, and of course the Moki Dugway is unpaved. Judging from dashcam videos of the road I wouldn't recommend it in an RV anyway, especially if you're lacking experience and/or confidence.
Unless anyone knows different, of course...
We are a family of 6 with 4 kids age 17,15,14 and 4, our full itinerary is:
UK-Washington DC for 2 nights-plan to see the museums and mall-not much else planned
Fly Washington-Vegas for 2 nights-plan to see the strip area chill out and pick up RV
Vegas-Mount Zion NP-for 2 nights-walk the narrows trail+??
Zion-North Rim GC-for 3 nights-various trails
North Rim-Monument Valley-for 1 night-hope to take guided Jeep tour in the valley
Monument Valley-Capitol Reef OR Lake Powell area-for 1 night (only night we haven't booked yet-suggestions welcomed on which might be the better option!)
Capitol Reef-Bryce Canyon for 2 nights-trails again+?horse trek
Bryce-Vegas-for 1 night-drop off RV collect people carrier/MPV
Vegas-Mammoth lakes (via death valley)-for 2 nights-
Mammoth Lakes-Yosemite-for 4 nights-hope to do the panorama trail, taft point, meadow trail....
Yosemite-Pacific Grove-for 4 nights-hope to take things easy+drive to Big Sur area, visit Monterey aquarium..-welcome suggestions for things to see en route from Yosemite-we plan to stop off at Mariposa Grove
Pacific Grove-San Fran-for 4 nights-probably drop off MPV on arrival-cycle across the bridge, see a baseball game,.....
Fly SF-Newark-for 3 night stay in Manhattan-Statue of Liberty, Empire State + usual tourist things
Newark-UK
We leave in mid July so we are all counting down the days now!!
Any advice on things to do/see on our various stops most welcome.
You're in for a heck of a good time !!
You can get great info from the nps.gov site for available Trails etc for all the National parks. When you arrive at the kiosk you will be given booklets with maps and info and best of all, the Rangers are always happy to tell you about their favourite spots and what is and what isn't suitable for a 4 year old, whether to expect sheer drop offs, steep climbs and will tell you if they are easy walks or strenouis hikes etc, so there is no shortage of info. For example the Narrows means wading through water and it can be tough, but there are so many great walks suitable for all ages and levels of fitness. The Riverside walk in Zion is a favourite for families along with the likes of Weeping rock and Emerald pools where there are 3 stages to choose from.Quote:
Vegas-Mount Zion NP-for 2 nights-walk the narrows trail+??
They're both great options but Capitol Reef and the drive to it is quite wonderful, especially going from MV to Hanksville along UT24 and the scenic byway 12 to Bryce canyon. There are lots of great stops along the way but it's probably best to just stumble across them as you go and let time decide.Quote:
Monument Valley-Capitol Reef OR Lake Powell area-for 1 night (only night we haven't booked yet-suggestions welcomed on which might be the better option!)
Again, in Yosemite there are many great trails, but you should allow a nice amount of time to travel over Tioga pass [CA120] so you can stop and take in the views, perhaps walk in Tuolumne meadows or around Tenaya Lake. Whatever you do don't miss the drive and short walk to Glacier point, it's quite something !
While in SF I would recommend a trip to Alcatraz, it's busy all year and to save waiting in ticket queues hoping to get a seat you are best of booking in advance. If this appeals then use the official nps site to save having to pay agents fees or book other tours you might not want.
When you arrive at Zion you can purchase an annual parks pass for $80 which will save you money over paying individual entry fees.
No doubt the teenagers will love the Narrows. Not so sure about taking a four year old through them. The River Walk up to the Narrows is a wonderful walk, you will all enjoy. In 2007 when I was there, there was quite a bit of commotion up ahead. It turned out to be a rattle snake by the side of the path. It was just slithering around the boulders and trees. One squirrel sitting up on a rock was most disturbed by this and, with tail fully fluffed up, was throwing sand at the snake - to the amusement of all onlookers.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejay
My grandchildren watch the little video I made of it with amazement.
Lifey
Thanks for the suggestions Dave. I'm thinking we will probably take the Capitol Reef option between MV and Bryce. The tip on the annual pass for the park should save us a fair bit.
Fortunately our 4 year old is a pretty good walker so most of the short trails should be fine but I think they'll be a few such as the narrows and some of the longer or hairier walks where either my wife or myself will go with the big kids while the other stays and entertains our little one!
If the Narrows has water in it, or it's been raining anywhere nearby, the rangers will probably recommend that you NOT take the 4-year-old into the Narrows. Emerald Pools and several other hikes are wonderful for small children. My daughters loved the Emerald Pools and the Weeping Walls ... especially the Weeping Walls!!!
Donna
One of the many great things about Zion is the variety of the trails from one extreme to the other.
BTW the first part of the Angels Landing trail, up the initial set of zigzags to a magnificent view of the canyon and river below, is paved and walled and totally safe, if moderately strenuous. However, the famous final part of the same trail is exceedingly dangerous with huge unguarded drops on either side and only suitable for the very fit and the very brave. I did the first bit :)
Hi all can I pick your collective brains again please!
I'm trying to finalise a route and schedule for this section of our summer road trip (full details on a previous thread). We only have a 1 night stay at Capitol Reef and I'm thinking we'll stay at the RV park in Torrey. I wonder if anyone has any experience of driving the Catherdral Valley Loop in Capitol Reef NP? I'm considering hiring a 4wd vehicle for the day and driving the 60 mile loop (looks like it will take around 6 hours with stops/picnic etc), drop off the 4wd then head off in the RV to Bryce. I've done a quick google search and it seems that Torrey-Bryce will take some 3-4 hours if we take it fairly leisurely with some stops to admire the views.
Any comments welcomed on whether this seems like a reasonable plan or whether it will it be too much for 1 day?
[Moderator Edit: PLEASE KEEP ALL POSTS ABOUT THE SAME TRIP IN YOUR ORIGINAL THREAD. THIS POST MOVED BACK HERE]
I've not driven it, but I can say that there is quite a bit to see in and around Capitol Reef without having the extra expense and time loss hiring a 4WD vehicle. Remember it would have to be a proper off road rental company which is usually more of a premium than a standard rental company who wouldn't let you take it off road. At the end of the day it really is coming down to personal preferences and how you want to spend your time. With just 1 night and quite a bit of travelling either side of it I personally would just enjoy more of what the park has to offer with easier access. I'd love to go off roading like that given the time, I just think that you are on too much of a time crunch to fully enjoy it and a puncture or breakdown in the middle of nowhere could add to that.
The scenic drive can be driven for just a $5 fee. I have tried twice to drive it, once arriving to late for daylight and a second attempt last Sept had us arrive with blue sky's and warm temperatures and looking forward to 'scratching that particular itch' only to find that flash floods the previous day had closed it down. Third time lucky I hope ! As well as the Gifford Homestead area and the old schoolhouse you have some nice trails like those at Panorama point. If you can get in the Fruita Campground near the Fremont river and surrounded by the historic orchards it's a great spot to camp, I'm pretty sure they are non-reservable sites though.
Thanks for the advice again Dave, I think you're probably right that times a bit tight. The Highway 24 scenic drive you mention looks really nice with plenty of trail options so I think we'll spend the time there instead.
There are many stops along UT24 which runs through Capitol Reef and it's a very scenic drive, but the $5 scenic drive I was referring to is off the main highway and continues beyond the Gifford Homestead. This, the Apple Orchards and Fruita campground are all found along Campground road, which is a turn off not far past the small Fruita schoolhouse on UT24.
If you decide to take UT scenic byway 12 to Bryce canyon [recommended] then a short way down the highway you will see the Larb Hollow overlook, it's worth pulling in for a few minutes to enjoy the views and there are plenty more to be enjoyed along the way.
You will need all the time you can spare to really enjoy scenic 12 and 24 in Utah. Lots of time and lots of camera capacity. It really is one of the most scenic routes you will travel.
Lifey