Seattle to Seattle via colorado and the west coast, in a van as a solo traveller

Hi All

First off just have to say this site seems brilliant, so nice to see people contributing with such useful info and helping out fellow road trippers!

I'm a Brit, I'm not an obvious outdoors type but after a 3 month road trip in NZ followed by a couple of months in Asia last year I've been hungry for another road trip ever since! Ilove the freedom and the adventure of it all. Thing is I'm not great at research and tend to have a fairly last minute approach to planning. I arrive in Vancouver on the 9th of August, plan to have 10-14 days doign the hoodapus pass tour then heading to seattle picking up a cheap van which I can register at a friends house. I'll either buy an existing conversion or buy a cargo van and make it habitabal (mattress and storage area). I'm thinking of then driving down through the rockies into colorado, pop by the grand canyon then get over to the west coast and drive up stopping by national parks on the way and a couple of the big interesting cities. I'm going to book my return flight around the 25th October from Seattle and my friend there will sell the car for me so I don't need to hang aroudn there at the end.

When in New Zealand I hooked up with an american girl shortly after I got there and we travelled around in a Mazda mpv with a mattress in the back, when she went to Oz I bought the car from her, went to Wellington and stayed with some cool people I met there for a couple of weeks, then me and a new friend picked up a couple of german girls hitch hiking and we travelled with them for another month aruodn the south island. It was an absolute epic way to live, and I'm hoping to do somethign similar in the US. maybe couch surf a bit, try and boondock (not pay to sleep) in forests and national parks and stuff, will stay in the odd motel to charge electricals and have a hot shower. I plan on buying a SatNav as I'm not the best map reader either.

I'm interested in vast wilderness, swimming in lakes, having a few drinks, hiking, kayaking, bit of fishing etc. I can do washing with a bucket, cook on a gas stove outdoors, and the odd meal out.

What I'm looking for is tips on great spots to stop, how easy it is to do "dispersed camping" and whether the official camp sites are any good for what I'm looking for and worth going to? I have healthy potential budget but don't want to break the bank if I can do things on the cheap where possible. Also best places to meet up with other like minded travellers on the road (the road can be a lonely place!) I'm 27, sociable and love nature and general adventuring.

Any help would be most welcome.

Cheers

Dave

Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!

The major logistic hurdle you face is the purchase/registration/sale of the van in the US. This is not as easy as it seems. In order to register a vehicle in most states, you have to be a legal resident of that state, not just have an address of convenience. Unless you can show legal residence, with say a local driver's license, utility bills, passport, or other documentation, you are not going to be allowed to register and license the vehicle. Now your friend could, but that leaves him as the legal owner and responsible for any damage and/or mayhem you cause while driving his vehicle. Are you sure you want to stick him with that responsibility?

In any event, it is usually not cost effective to buy a vehicle for such a short period. Not only do you have to worry about the costs of registering/licensing/insuring the van - and insurance is usually sold in minimum increments of 6 months even if you only plan to keep the vehicle on the road for a few weeks. But remember, you are buying retail and selling wholesale. The loss you are going to take on the transaction is likely to be more than the cost of renting a van. For your own benefit, look into renting, especially since you're returning to the same place you'd pick it up.

You can do fairly well finding cheep to free campsites in the west, but not in the national parks. Instead check out the national forests (USFS) and the domains of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Both offer distributed or dispersed camping where you can camp for free away from prepared campsites, but you will have to do some hiking in/out, not just pull over on the side of the road in the van. Dispersed camping is what you make of it. Prepared campsites will be 'better' in the sense that you can drive to them and stay in the van, and will let you meet other people. Typical charges in the USFS and BLM settings are fairly minimal.

Also, at the first national park or monument you come to, buy an annual pass. This will set you back $80, but will give you free access to all parks and monuments in the system. It typically pays for itself on the fourth park you enter. It does not, however, cover any 'extra' costs such as camping, special activities, or concessions within the parks.

Since your plans seem purposely pretty fluid, I won't offer advice about specific places to see unless there are sites you've heard of and want further info on. Enjoy the planning as well as the trip.

AZBuck

To expand on Buck's comments, you may want to take public transportation from Seattle to San Francisco and rent an Escape Campervan. Arrange your return flight back to the UK from there.

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Originally Posted by AZBuck

In order to register a vehicle in most states, you have to be a legal resident of that state, not just have an address of convenience.

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Buck, I'm glad you said most States, because that is not the case in Washington. If someone will allow you to use their address, then you are able to register in your own name. That is how Don ran his business. Insurance however, is another matter. As you may recall from Jessica's report, there was some under the table business going on. Makes one wonder what would happen in case of a claim.

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In any event, it is usually not cost effective to buy a vehicle for such a short period. Not only do you have to worry about the costs of registering/licensing/insuring the van - and insurance is usually sold in minimum increments of 6 months ...

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It took a long tiome to find a company to insure my vehicle, and they do not sell in 6 mth increments. It is for the full 12 months only.

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The loss you are going to take on the transaction is likely to be more than the cost of renting a van. For your own benefit, look into renting, especially since you're returning to the same place you'd pick it up.

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I'd have to agree, it is not like buying and selling in NZ or OZ. There are members here (Aussies) who have rented with Escape Campervans. The reports have been good, both for price and conditions.

As also mentioned, free campsites are not as readily available as some think. They are well known to permanent vandwellers. Perhaps if you go onto some of their forums you may learn more where to find them.

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Originally Posted by daveswift

(the road can be a lonely place!)

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I respectfully beg to differ. As a senior citizen, I find it anything but lonely. A mere two weeks into my trip, I already have more than a dozen contacts as well as one invitation to come and stay. Not to mention the scores of people who have helped me out, offered suggestions and generally made this trip as wonderful as my last five have been.

And I still have three and a half more months to go.

Lifey

Thank you Azbuck. Your advice is much appreciated. I understand there are hurdles to jump through in buying a van, but from reading various forums and speaking to contacts in the states, I understood that I could purchase a van in Seattle register it to my friends address, then insure it and cancel it when I leave receiving a refund for any months I don't use. My friend was going to sell it on craigslist for me after I leave, which means I save myself the headache of having to sell at the end. Seeing as I want the car for around 2 months, I assumed buying and selling would be the best option, especially with the stealth factor of having a converted cargo van so I can sleep in it in cities.

And thank you for the advice in regards camping, I'll definitely invest in a national parks pass.

Thanks again

Thank you for your reply lifey. I'm going to contact some insurance agents and see if they will insure me, or even if my friend will take the risk of insuring the vehicle for me. This is unlikey though, so maybe the camper van option would be a good way to go. I like the idea of having my own vehicle, and for $65 a day on my own, renting is quite a pricey option, espeically with CDW of $9 a day on top. I was hoping to buy a basic van for around $3000, spend up to $500 on insurance and maintenance and hope to get $2500 back or even if it was $2000 back that's significantly cheaper than renting seeing as I'm renting on my own.

Maybe if I have to do some more research.

Great that your travels are going so well.

Thanks again

Dave

I think you might still be working with some ideas that aren't completely accurate.

You certainly can't assume that you'll get back the insurance premiums after you are done, especially since you'll likely have to work with a high-risk company because of your lack of US driving record. As Lifey explained from her first hand experience, finding any company that will insure you is likely to be difficult.

There is also the potential problem of selling your van without being in the country, because it will be difficult for you to sign over the title, without being there for the sale. There may be ways around that, but they have the potential to be another big headache for your friend - and asking a friend to sell a car for you is already putting a rather large burden on them. Speaking of burdens, if you are using their address for your insurance, it is possible that you could potentially be putting their assets at risk if you get into an accident that is beyond the scope of your insurance coverage. Just add it to the long list of legal complications that makes purchasing a vehicle as a non-resident a very challenging prospect that isn't anywhere as simple as showing up and buying a van.

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especially with the stealth factor of having a converted cargo van so I can sleep in it in cities.

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This also sounds like a potential case where this isn't going to be nearly as simple as you might think. Most cities have very strict regulations on where you can park, especially overnight. Often times you have to be a resident with a permit to park on the street (and if there aren't those regulations, there is a good chance it isn't a safe place to be spending the night!). Public lots where overnight parking is allowed, are not likely to allow you to stay with the van overnight. It might not be impossible every night, but I think this is another case where you will find far more difficulty than you expect.

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I was hoping to buy a basic van for around $3000, spend up to $500 on insurance and maintenance and hope to get $2500 back or even if it was $2000 back that's significantly cheaper than renting seeing as I'm renting on my own.

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I think your cost expectations are significantly low, especially when it comes to insurance and maintenance. I'd expect you'd pay at least $500 just for basic insurance, and Lifey can certainly tell you from her experience that it doesn't take much at all to spend $1000 for repairs, even if you find a "diamond in the rough" for $3000. Realistically, most vehicles at that price point are going to be in need of at least some repairs that will cost you time and money.

Sorry to sound like we are so negative about your plan, because that's really not the case, we just want to make sure you are fully aware about the challenges you're likely to face.

Thank you Michael. From my experience in purchasing vehicles, I would hope that I can get a slightly beaten up but mechanically sound 13-16 yr old van for 3k and provided I check that the tyres are sound, there are no leaks, the belts been changed the transmission sounds ok etc, I can't imagine spending any more than 1k on repairs, so even with 1k on repairs, $500 for two months insurance and losing $500 on the car and giving $200 bucks or so to my friend for his trouble selling it, the whole process will cost me $2200, compare this with renting a vehicle I can sleep in + potentially using more than the 100 mile allowance, + the additional CDW I will be saving at the very least 2500k and having my own vehicle is much more fun for me, and yes here and there I think I'll be able to sleep in a quiet residential street or park car park or Wal Mart with less trouble than if I had an RV or rental camper.

I appreciate your advice, and I understand it is not a simple process but I believe the hoops may be worth jumping through in order to have my very own vehicle with an unlimited milage allowance. I've contacted a couple of insurance agencies and I'll share their feedback with you as to how easy it will be to insure a van as a non us citizen.

Other advice I was looking for, was how reliable are SatNavs in very rural areas of the US? Is there a particular brand that's good over there. Also a good package for a mobile phone with internet data, as if I was stranded somewhere it might be nice to be able to connect to the internet and look for nearby facilities.

Cheers

Dave

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Other advice I was looking for, was how reliable are SatNavs in very rural areas of the US? Is there a particular brand that's good over there.

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I don't think you will have any problems with a Sat Nav. I have a TomTom one [UK and Irleand] and purchased the US map on line prior to leaving and it was fine. It is recommended that you carry paper maps to plot your route and see exactly what is around you. Not only can a Sat Nav send you miles and miles out of your way to put you on Interstate to save a couple of minutes and miss great scenery, they can potentially put you in harms way by sending you down unmade mountain tracks/forests etc using shortest routes, and there has been more than one report of it costing lives, and even more sending people hundreds of miles in the wrong direction by miscommunication. Plotting on paper maps and entering Waypoints into your Sat Nav is a good option and then double check that the Sat Nav route is the same as you have plotted on your paper map.

I can't help with the phone, but service does become patchy to non existant in some remote areas. Depending on how much you plan on using it, it will be worth contacting your provider and asking for details of costs for roaming charges. Sometimes it's not as bad as you might think.

Dave, why and where are you thinking of stealth camping? If you are planning on following all you read on the many vandwellers forums then you may be in for a surprise. Those posts are mostly written by locals who know their area, know the regulations (and how to get around them) and are familiar with law enforcement in their area. Without that local knowledge, or simply the 'say-so' of the internet, you would be taking a great risk.... no matter what vehicle you are in.

I rarely pay for accommodation in cities and have never gone for stealth. Truck stops are free, are 24hr operations, have excellent security, have bathroom facilities (pay for the shower) as well as the immediately evident shop and fuel. There is also a driver's lounge at most and often an area where you can get on the internet (as I am now). Many have special parking areas for those wishing to stay overnight. You find truck stops on the outer edges of cities and along the main arteries throughout the country. You are never far from one. There is even a directory which has all this information in it.

Why would you risk stealth?

I wish you luck finding a 'good' van/truck for as little as $3000. But you need to remember a vehicle only sells that low when it is at the end of its tether. These have usually been used to lug cargo around the place, driven by drivers who are more intent on getting there on time than worrying about the good of the vehicle. Owned by owners intent on keeping their business through the GFC, and very likely doing no more than the very basic maintenance to keep the vehicle on the road.

On top of that, unlike with a rental, you will not only be responsible for your own repairs, but you will be off the road, and that can be days..... days spent in a motel/hotel. If you are planning on going to more remote areas, count on towing costing hundreds (if not much more).

Furthermore, I would heed carefully the points made by Michael as to the burden your friend may have to carry. In this litigeous society, no knowing where that could lead. The main reasons why I was not prepared to register at any of my family's or friend's addresses.

There is another way, a legally sound and secure way, which is the way I went. There are attorneys who facilitate this for non-residents...... at a price! A price well worth paying for peace of mind and the preservation of a friendship.

Now if you were starting in Florida, that could be a completely different story.

As for relying on a satnav anywhere, let alone in remote areas, these stories may give you some insight. Or you could just google 'death by GPS'.

Lifey

Lifey, just for comparison sake, how much did you pay for your van, and how much did you end up spending on repairs during your first trip?

Thank you lifey, that's great advice. I will look to stop in truck stops whenever I'm in a big city. In terms of the Van, I've seen a few and if I go for a 15 year old vehicle, I should be able to get something in OK condition for $3k, I may go up to $4k or even 5k though if I can't find anything in suitable condition, and of course I will sign up with AAA. I may go for a family mini van, and take the seats out and store them with ym friend rather than getting a cargo van, for the reasons you gave and it would save on mpg.

As for the burden on my friend, I will get a high level of insurance cover, I will pay him for his trouble and from teh research I have done, it is perfectly legal. I will be staying with my friend, which is why I register the vehicle there. There is no law which requires you to be a US citizen or have a long stay visa in order to purchase a car.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Michael

Lifey, just for comparison sake, how much did you pay for your van, and how much did you end up spending on repairs during your first trip?

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Not counting the installation of the battery for the fridge, nor regular maintenance, just the vehicle, associated costs and repairs came to between $10K and $10.5K.

And now, picking it up on my return, it has cost me about $500 (not counting the new seats and house battery) to get it safely back on the road again.

It's running just beautifully, and it still gets around 16 mpg.

Lifey

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Originally Posted by Lifemagician

Not counting the the installation of the battery for the fridge, nor regular maintenance, just the vehicle, associated costs and repairs came to between $10K and $10.5K.

And now, picking it up on my return, it has cost me about $500 (not counting the new seats and house battery) to get it safely back on the road again.

It's running just beautifully, and it still gets around 16 mpg.

Lifey

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What did you get for that? Have you got any pictures?

Cheers

DAve

You are quite right. It is legal in WA to register at a friend's place. All we are alerting you to is that it is not a wise move. As for insurance, I checked with dozens of companies all of whom required either a State driver's licence, a social security number, or proof of residency (not citizenship). I spoke with them. Made dozens of international calls. Some even required that you not take the vehicle out of the State for more than a set number of days. And then there were those who would not insure a vehicle over a certain age. This was not just in WA, I checked all over the 48 States. Each time I thought I had a problem solved, up came another one. Believe me, been there, done that!

My vehicle was purchased in PA, registered in MT and insured with a company in Delaware at yet a different address, in another State.

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Originally Posted by daveswift

I may go for a family mini van, and take the seats out and store them with my friend rather than getting a cargo van, for the reasons you gave and it would save on mpg.

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Back in 2009 friends loaned me a spare vehicle they had. This was extremely generous of them, and I am still grateful for the gesture. But all the while I was driving it, I was aware that if I caused serious injury (or death) to anyone, they could potentially be sued for many millions - despite very high insurance. It is just the way it is.

This van had only 58000 miles on the clock when I took it. Friends, wanting me to be safe had the van completely checked and even the slightest thing repaired. Yet, despite all that, up in Alaska it broke down with an issue which could not be foreseen. Four days in accommodation, and $800 later, I was on my way again. Not a pleasant experience.

Lifey

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Originally Posted by daveswift

What did you get for that? Have you got any pictures?

Cheers

DAve

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Long thread, but worth a read. Pictures are in post #60. It's a 1998 model.

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Originally Posted by daveswift

What did you get for that? Have you got any pictures?

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... the Gear Up forum. It's all there for you to read. (While you're there, you'll probably find lots more useful information in other threads.)

Lifey

Edit: looks like I'm not quick enough - lol.

Dave, I just got a call from Lifey. She's stranded in Flagstaff, AZ with no brakes, the master cylinder failed. There is not a master cylinder to be had in the whole city, one is being shipped in and will be there tomorrow. Just saying - her van is 15 years old and cost CONSIDERABLY more than $3k, and this shows that anything can (and will) happen. Failures like this just cannot be predicted, and the older/cheaper a vehicle is, the more likely things like this will happen. With a rental, this would not be your problem (except for delaying your trip).

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Originally Posted by glc

Dave, I just got a call from Lifey. She's stranded in Flagstaff, AZ with no brakes, the master cylinder failed. There is not a master cylinder to be had in the whole city, one is being shipped in and will be there tomorrow. Just saying - her van is 15 years old and cost CONSIDERABLY more than $3k, and this shows that anything can (and will) happen. Failures like this just cannot be predicted, and the older/cheaper a vehicle is, the more likely things like this will happen. With a rental, this would not be your problem (except for delaying your trip).

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Hi, I appreciate this is a big risk, but I've found a 12 yr old vehicle with 65k miles, its all kitted out for camping and sleeping and will be having a full mechanical check prior to purchase (as well as a service). When calculating cost of hiring a vehicle capable of sleeping in, the cost will be more than 3k anyway, so I think the risk is worth taking. I think in order to have the trip I've dreamt of, going the purchase route is the best way. I've foudn an insurer, I've contacted the DOL, who have given me all of the info I need to buy and sell the vehicle. It turns out without giving my cousin power of attorney he won't be able to sell my vehicle for me so I might have to go for something like maxcar* to sell at the end but will advertise on craigslist then go around a few dealers if I don't get a sale.

All I need to do now is research some good camping spots and make a trail. If when I get to Seattle, the vehicile doesn't pass the inspection, and I can't find another suitable vehicle, then I'll pop by some Hostels and look at chipping in with some other travelers for a rental.

Oh and Lifey, I hope everything works out and its not too costly.


Cheers

Dave

Carmax will not buy vehicles worth less than $8000.

I would advise that you get a good paper map and have a good read around the RTA forums and check out the planning pages in the tool bars above. The Map centre is good for plotting potential routes and finding attractions in the areas you will be travelling. Once you have got some dots on the map I'm sure we can help to 'fine tune' and offer suggestions and tweaks.

For me, when visiting National parks there is nothing quite like staying in the heart of the park at night, maximizing your time there and enjoying a night around the campfire. They are quite reasonable to stay in [around $20] and if you are spending 2 or more days there, you can save some money on fuel not having to drive in and out to find a cheap [or free] camping spot. The only problem is is that they do sell out and booking in advance is recommended, but that does cost you some freedom. [The later you are into your trip the higher chance of finding available sites]

Between Seattle and Rocky mountain NP in Colorado you could visit Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons, perhaps even venturing to Glacier NP first. Check out the 'Going to the Sun road in Glacier and the Beartooth Highway in Yellowstoine. While in RMNP you may get the chance, weather permitting, to drive the Trail Ridge road across the park which is also the highest continous paved road in the USA.

From Colorado to the Grand canyon you have many options. Near Colorado Springs are Garden of the Gods, Cave of the Winds and Pikes Peak. You could cut down to Canon City [Royal Gorge bridge] and take US 50 over the continental divide at Monarch pass and through Currecanti Nat Rec area to Black canyon of the Gunnison. At Montrose you could head south on the spectacular 'Million dollar Highway [US550] through the mountain towns of Ouray and Silverton to Durango. Between Durango and Cortez you will find Mesa Verde NP. Nearby is the Four corners NM where you get the opportunity to stand in four states at the same time, the only place this is possible. Utah is also home to some amazing NP's, Arches and Canyonlands near Moab, plus Capital Reef, Bryce canyon [amazing rock spires] and Zion NP. From near here you could visit the North rim of the Grand canyon or head south via Page AZ [Lake Powell, Antelope canyon, Glen canyon etc] to the south rim, or visit both rims !

From GC you can cut across to the coast many ways. A popular route would be via Vegas and Death valley to Yosemite NP [amazing !!] over the Tioga Pass. From Yosemite you could head part way down the coast, say Cambria area and then drive around Big Sur to San Fran although you might prefer LA ?

From SF you could head north over the Golden Gate bridge and visit the Redwoods [Humboltd with the Avenue of the Giants drive as well as the NP] and from Crescent City head inland towards Crater Lake, although access might be limited by this time. From Crater Lake you could head north to Hood river and drive the wonderful Columbia River Gorge into Portland before heading back to Seattle.

There are another 'million and one things' to find along the way, but maybe that will help give you some direction. That would probably come in at around 4500-5000 miles, or 10 days of dedicated driving.

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Originally Posted by glc

Carmax will not buy vehicles worth less than $8000.

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That's not true. My friend just sold his jeep to them for $750. They've made me offers for other cars that were even less. Of course all of those prices were way below kbb value, but they will buy pretty much anything that runs.

Sounds like they have changed their policy. If they do buy vehicles worth less than 8k, they must wholesale them right out to the auctions. I don't think you will find anything on their lots for sale for less than that.

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Originally Posted by daveswift

All I need to do now is research some good camping spots ...

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Sometimes one chances upon them, just by asking when one arrives.

Today I chanced upon a lovely spot in the town park with electricity, bathrooms, water and even a dump station, for $15 per night (a 15 night limit). High up in the Rockies in a little town without traffic lights. A delightful place where I have already met many lovely people, including the Coroner. Born in Europe, he has worked and lived on four continents, including Australia. Am tempted to stay for a few nights, but alas, time is my master.

Lifey

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Originally Posted by daveswift

... I've found a 12 yr old vehicle with 65k miles, its all kitted out for camping and sleeping ...

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When you get them, please post some pics. I feel sure that I am not the only one who would like to see them. What make / model, etc.

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Originally Posted by daveswift

Oh and Lifey, I hope everything works out and its not too costly.

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Here ye go, "Read all about!!" Am looking forward to reading all about your trip. Sure hope you will see your way clear to post a trip report - with pics - in our special forum, either during your trip, or when you are done.

Lifey