need advice: first time RV trip from San Jose to LV, GC and Utah NPs

Hi- Our family of 4 and dog are headed on our first road trip this June. Starting in Las Vegas via Death Valley, then to Grand Canyon north rim, and then the Utah National Parks (not really in order: Zion, Bryce, Glen Canyon area, Monument Valley, possibly Moab).

We are renting the RV (Class A 30') for 2 weeks. I am searching for some answers. First off, we decided to visit north rim of GC because south rim seems out of the way since we plan on heading north afterwards. But is that incorrect? is it easier to get to the South Rim (from Page, AZ) since the road is probably wider, easier to drive with an RV?

Next question. Figuring we have enough time to go to Moab, we plan on making a loop (from Monument Valley north to Moab, then Route 70W and 15S back towards Nevada). Is this a somewhat straightforward route to get to Nevada? We are looking to avoid twists and turns, and we want to save time at this point, but we want something doable with an RV.

Assuming we make that loop from Moab via a nice stretch of road, what should we do for our way back to San Jose? Do you suggest cutting through Nevada and heading through Yosemite (70W to 15S to NV375 to US6)? Or would that slow us down because the road winds while we're in Yosemite (btw, 'wind' has long "i" sound :) )? is it faster to retrace our steps via Vegas? We don't want a road that is really slow, nauseating and scary. But if it is not too long a stretch of road we can bear with the curves, as long as we're not wasting too much time (and gas).

That's about it!
Thanks in advance for your help!

Sandy

Hi, and Welcome to the The Great American RoadTrip Forum.

There are pros and cons to visiting the North Rim. At the South Rim you have the IMAX theatre (just outside the NP) with the fantastic movie of the Grand Canyon, which really adds a lot to what you are about to see. It is also where most of the photos with which you will be familiar, are taken. On the other hand, the North Rim is just as scenic, less commercial and no where near as crowded. It will be much easier to find a parking spot, and you will be able to get around with the RV. (At the south rim there is a shuttle bus for various sections.)

Having said that, the North Rim is by far my preferred destination. The view of the Colorado River (as seen in the IMAX movie) is an unbelievable photo opportunity. There are short walks and longer hikes, and chances are, if you want to stay in the NP, it could well be easier at this 'late' stage, to get a vacancy. There is nothing like a sunrise over the canyon, or a sunset over the rim.

You will find that the roads to the attractions you have mentioned are travelled by motor homes much larger than 30', on a regular basis. You should not have any problems. It is amazing how quickly you get used to a larger vehicle. (I am in that position right now.)

I will leave the rest of your questions for others to address. Just wanted to assure you that by going to the North Rim your experience of the Grand Canyon will be as great (if not greater) than the South Rim.

Have a great trip.

Lifey

Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!

It takes roughly the same amount of time to drive from Las Vegas to either the South or North Rim of the Grand Canyon. But you are right, visiting the North Rim would put you in much better shape to then head for the other national parks and monuments in southern Utah. Also, you don't need ot go all the way to page to get to the North Rim from Las Vegas. From I-15 north of St. George, you'd take UT-9 to Hurricane, then UT-59 down to Colorado City AZ and AZ-389 through the "Arizona Strip" to Fredonia AZ. From there Alt-US-89 will get you to Jacob lake and AZ-67 down onto the North Rim. AZ-67 is a single two-lane road that provides the only access to the North Rim, but large RVs navigate it every day, and there is plenty of parking for your vehicle at the park. You'd come out the same way you went in. But at Jacob Lake you have to make a choice. Either you can go east (south) to US-89 north for Page and Glen Canyon, then use AZ-98 over to US-160 and Monument Valley, OR you can stay on Alt-US-89 up to Fredonia continue north into Utah to visit Zion, Bryce Canyon, and the other Utah parks and monuments.

The route you've laid out from Moab back to Nevada, I-70/I-15 is a piece of cake. It's all Interstates which were built to handle the really big rigs. The one spot on your journey where your RV will become an issue is trying to cross the Sierra Nevada, and if you are at all uncomfortable or inexperienced driving such a large (and usually underpowered) vehicle, then you really should stick to going around the mountains, either to the south through Bakersfield, or to the north by way of Reno and I-80 to the Bay area.

AZBuck

Thanks AZBuck. You answered a lot of my questions.

Do you think there is a difference in routes 120 vs 108 through Yosemite? Do you know if 108 is just as curvy as 120? I'd rather not drive towards Tahoe or back down to Bakersfield if I can avoid it. I'm scanning Google Maps for possible alternatives. I like 108 because we can stop at Mono lake and take a look since the kids studied it in school.

Another question. If we want to fit in Capitol Reef NP, how do you think route 12W from Moab compares to I-70? Choosing this route, we can see Bryce Canyon on the way down.


Sandy

Hi Lifey,

I am taking your advice and keeping our plans to visit the North Rim. I decided to look for a movie/documentary about the Grand Canyon I can show the kids before we go or maybe on the way there. Poor replacement for IMAX, I know.

In regards to CGs near the north rim, Jacob Lake CG (Kaibab Camper Village) still has lots of availability for June, but I don't know when we're going to arrive. They are the closest full hook-up CG to the North rim.

Thanks for your reassurances. I feel much more comfortable about the trip!

Sandy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lifemagician

The view of the Colorado River (as seen in the IMAX movie) is an unbelievable photo opportunity.

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Just realised ... that should have read 'The view of the Colorado river through Angel's Window...' (etc.)

Lifey

The North Rim had lovely views of the canyon with very few people so we were quite surprised to find a wedding, a very small one with formal attire, at a vista point.

I think you can include Arches within your 2 weeks and get an overview of the parks you are visiting, as long as you don't mind keeping on the move. I would look at the GC NP web page and decide on what rim appeals to you the most, if you include Arches NP there is only 30 miles difference which is pretty insignificant over 2 weeks. If you were to not visit Glen canyon, going to the south rim would actually be less miles !

North rim route; LV to Zion to Bryce to North rim to Glen Canyon to Monument valley to Arches to San jose.

South rim route; LV to South rim to Glen canyon to Monument valley to Arches to Bryce to Zion to San Jose.

If you get a couple of days at Arches you might also want to include Canyonlands and drive to Grandview Point. I have driven the Tioga Pass in a 30ft Class C RV and found it reasonably comfortable, as do many thousands of RV's that cross there. Only you can decide, but if you are an experienced driver and take it steady you should be fine. It gets a tight in places as you make your way down to the valley, but I don't recall anything that made it feel 'scary'. The 108 does not actually go into Yosemite and although I haven't driven it, I don't think you would be any better off and definitely not when you add those extra miles.

As with anywhere you travel in an RV, if you are holding traffic up behind you on a slow winding road, pull into a turn out when it is safe to do so and let them by. You will be rewarded with a smile and a toot of the horn rather than a frown and a blast of the horn ! [Not to mention the International two finger salute ! lol]

If you decide to take the Tioga Pass into Yosemite [one of my favourite NP's] then I would take the ET Highway to US 6 to CA120. From Cedar City take UT56/ NV319/US93/NV318/375 [ET]. Along the way you have the Little'Ale'inn, close to Area 51 with reports and pictures of 'other worldly beings'. Warm Springs is a derelict old stage post with a hot tub in the middle of nowhere ! After the old Mining town of Tonopah is Millers Rest, a rest area with a difference where you can sleep overnight, for free ! If you have the time, skip through this RV thread for a better idea of what I'm on about. [This bit will be in reverse order]

Depending on which route you take , if you travel the Mount Carmel Highway out of Zion [or into] you will need a a tunnel escort that will cost you $15. [?] You can ask at the entry kiosk about it. You may have to wait a while to go through, but I doubt more than 30 mins and it's quite an exciting drive/. The road up to the tunnel is pretty windy though. If you were going to the north rim you could go back towards Hurricane and around.

Finally, if you are visiting all the National parks listed [or more than 4] you should purchase the annual pass at the first kiosk you visit. It is $80 and is for entry to all parks, including everyone in the vehicle for up to a year. As with all entry fees, this does not include campground fees. Speaking of which, I think you will struggle to find any RV places within the parks, but I would certainly check it out asap and keep checking for cancellations if no luck.

Southwest Dave-

I looked into visiting the south rim GC instead of north rim. It saves *a lot* of time if we were going to bypass Glen Canyon and just go straight to Monument valley. But what I discovered when I looked into day trips/tours, it seems like the only mule and raft trips we can do within our limited time take place at the North rim GC and at Glen Canyon. The north rim has 1 and 3 hour mule rides (the 3 hour one goes into the canyon). Glen Canyon has 3 hour float trips. If we went to the south rim, they only offer full day or overnight trips on mule and raft. We have a dog and can't leave him too long!
So we'll go the extra 50 miles or so to visit north rim.

Do you know if it's legal to stop the RV on the side of the road (outside of a NP) or in a parking lot to sleep for the night? Do we have to find RV campgrounds?

I think we will skip Zion NP. We were there once before, although in winter and most trails were closed. But we will go to Bryce Canyon on the way back from Moab. After Monument valley NM, we decided to see Natural Bridges NP, Natural Arches NP, Dead Horse SP, Canyonlands NP and then Bryce NP. Hopefully that is all doable in 3 days! Maybe 4 if we time ourselves well. It may be a case of: take a picture and get back in the car!

I could have waited to buy the annual park pass, but I was at REI and they sell them, so I bought it. Will save time anyway.

Quote:

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Do you know if it's legal to stop the RV on the side of the road (outside of a NP) or in a parking lot to sleep for the night?

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Generally, no. You need to find a public or private campground. The only real exception is a truck stop - you can generally park overnight there to sleep with permission, but you can't set up camp. Some Walmarts will also allow this, but you have to ask due to some local ordinances and individual store policies.

If you are planning on taking UT261 between Monument Valley and Natural Bridges you will encounter the Moki Dugway ! Not ideal if you want to avoid twists and turns !! It is manageable in an RV but it does have a recommendation that vehicles over 22ft take the long way around. You can find info by putting it into your search engine but here are a few pictures.

View from the bottom

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...2&d=1218832928

View from the top.

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...5&d=1218833363

And us on the way down.

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...4&d=1218833363

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...6&d=1263832090

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...4&d=1263831821

Quite an exciting ride, although for some reason or another the ladies had their eyes closed most of the way down ! lol.

Before you get to the Moki there is a turn off to Goosenecks State Park where you can spend the night for free. Very quiet with a view of the river bending it's way through the desert, but not much else there.

Gooseneck.

http://www.roadtripamerica.com/forum...1&d=1218832437

Doesn't seem like the Moki Dugway is ideal for us, unless it will be really worthwhile at our destination. Do you think we can bypass Natural Bridges? Maybe we should just take 163 towards Bluff and then 191N towards Moab.

While in Monument Valley, do you suggest we drive ourselves on the 17 mile tour or should we take a professional tour? I read that the road is unpaved but doable for cars. Just want to avoid potholes and the like on a rented RV.

Any advice on which Canyonlands visitor center to drive to--- Needles or Island in the Sky? We're not doing heavy duty hiking. We have 2 kids and a dog. Has to be pet friendly.


Thanks!

I really enjoyed Natural Bridges, and it was one of my favorite stops in the region, but if you are opposed to driving the Moki, then it would be a pretty significant detour.

I would strongly advise against taking a rental RV through Monument Valley. Its not too terrible of a road, but it would almost certainly be in violation of your rental agreement, and avoiding potholes would be an impossibility.

Islands in the sky is the more accessible and more visited part of Canyonlands, and has lots of viewpoints that require very little walking.

However keep in mind, as with nearly all national parks, you're going to be very limited on where you can go with a dog. The vast majority of the time, pets are not allowed on hiking trails and generally have to be kept on paved roads and/or camping areas.

I would second all that Michael has said and go as far as to say, do not attempt to take the RV through Monument Valley ! There are wonderful views from Grandview point in the Islands in the Sky section of Canyonlands, right by the parking area and a fairly relaxed/easy walk to the end [or part way] is very rewarding. On the way down is Mesa Arch that is well worth a stop and short walk to. A wonderful view through the Arch at 'Washer woman Rock' awaits you ! There is also a pull out for the 'Shafer Trail' view where you might spot some Off roaders making their way down the twisty dirt track.

If you had enough time you could also drive down to Dead Horse Point State Park.

Edit. I see you had Dead Horse on your list already. An even better reason to do Island in the Sky.

Thanks Dave and Michael for your advice. I am still not happy about skipping Natural Bridges. But I am now considering adding Mesa Verde NP to our plans, as it is not too far out of the way. In which case, I would *have* to skip Natural Bridges, no doubt about that. From the research I've done, it seems Mesa Verde is a very different experience. Especially for the kids who will be seeing so much geology as it is. Makes sense to throw some anthropology into the mix. The cave dwellings are so interesting. Let me know if either of you have made this detour! Thanks!

Mesa Verde is fantastic for kids. I was a kid when I first saw it and loved the tours!



Donna

Yes I have and it is a fascinating experience for all the family. You can get info on the tours of the dwellings on the NPS site. I don't recall seeing the ages of the Kids mentioned, but some of the tours involve climbing ladders and although straight forward enough for those old enough and able enough, I thought it worth mentioning. Also for planning purposes it's not really a quick visit. Just to get in the park and do one tour with a little sight seeing will take at least half a day.

It would appear that it is not long before you depart. Have you checked campground info and availability yet ? The NP's have a limited number of RV sites available and are very popular. It could be that they are already booked out and you will have to look for options nearby. Even if you don't want to book in advance [although I do when on a tight schedule] it will pay to do your homework and make notes of names and numbers.