Searching for a Camper Van

Now that I have everything in place to register and insure my own vehicle as a non-resident, I am on the lookout for a vehicle. I have some specifics, and since these are not common - though not unknown - in North America, I thought I would ask the RoadTrip Enthusiasts if they ever see one for sale, to let me know, so I can check it out. I have already had a great deal of assistance from some members on this site, for which I am most grateful. I have also spent much time on forums and sales sites, looking. I have seen a couple, but would like to see more to get some idea and comparison of prices, models and makes.

What I am looking for is a camper, similar to, but not necessarily identical to, a VW Eurovan. Definitely no larger. It is irrelevant where it is located, as I am able to pick up from... well, anywhere in the 48 States.

My specifics are: it needs to be in good mechanical condition, with the priorities being safety, reliability and economy, in that order. It must have a bed and three way fridge. If it has more, that would be a bonus. Cosmetic appearance is not as important as the priorities mentioned above.

Other requirements are automatic transmission, cruise control, air conditioning, a full-size spare tyre and radio. A pop up roof would be nice, but not essential.

I am ready to buy when the right vehicle becomes available. It will not be needed till late March next year.

Thanks for reading.

Lifey

I'm pleased to see that all your hard work appears to have paid off !

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I am ready to buy when the right vehicle becomes available.

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Are you considering purchasing 'the right one' before your next visit ? Personally I don't think I could take that risk and purchase via the Web or advert, unless of course a family member and trusted mechanic could look it over in person beforehand and take delivery. [?] I have travelled many miles, many times, to look at a vehicle after talking to the owner who answered all my questions and convinced me it was 'the best', only to arrive and find what we refer to as a 'shed'. A seller can be real selective about what they tell you and what Angles they take their photo's at.

Great news though and good luck with the search !

Dave,

Believe me, it takes a lot to get me to part with my precious few dollars. Contingency plans are in place in some regions, and now that I know how to go about getting that information, am sure I will be able to find the contacts I need at the time, no matter where in the country it is. Much information has been gained from those with whom I have been in contact over the last 12 months or so. Thank God for Skype. Without it I would never be able to afford to make international calls as frequently as I do.

Lifey

So, may I assume that a full-size conversion van like we discussed is no longer in the picture?

No, not completely. If it has the features for which I am looking, then that may still be an option. But my preference is for a VW or similar. I am familiar with them, and they are smaller in stature and not so heavy.

Here we have conversion vans, much like the VW campers, made by Nissan and Toyota, and if I came across one of them, I'd be very interested. But I don't think a massive Dodge or Ford or ?? is what I want.

Lifey

Lifey, I will keep my eyes and ears posted (once I'm back home). I think what you're looking for is called a Class B motorhome, here. Class C's are full motorhomes with a bunk over the cab, and Class A's resemble a Greyhound bus. But Class B's are just a "van camper". In CA they're hard to buy, but I will definitely watch for you!


Donna

Donna, I think she is looking for something smaller than a typical Class B. It looks to me like most Class B's you find here are built on 3/4 or 1 ton truck/van chassis with big V8's or diesels. VW's don't have sufficient support here in my opinion - but I *have* seen conversions built around minivans such as the old Ford Aerostar.

So RoadTrek is too large for what you're seeking? They are some of the best-built Class B's in North America. I'd still recommend renting one for a trip and see if that really is going to work. Just for information sake: pricing on used RoadTreks.

I still really like the Chinooks - although I like the smaller versions from a decade ago more. Compare this with the pricing for a 1996 model at ~ $17,000

Or even this model -- which I think is home-made -- I've never seen anything like this referred to as a Chinook for $5500

One of the best time of the year to be looking is late Fall to early Winter (in North America = October to November) when many folks are putting their camper vans to bed for the winter and debating about the storage costs.

What I really recommend you do is contact our two long-time RV Lifestyle correspondents -- they know just about everyone in the greater RV "commercial" community and they'd be an excellent resource for you. Jaimie Bruzenak and Alice Zyetz.

Mark

The RoadTrek was what I was thinking of....that, or the really older VW camper vans (of the 70s). Some of those had pop-up roofs. Some of those other things listed as Class B's, seem to me to be small Class C's.



Donna

Those Roadtreks are all based on 3/4 and 1 ton vans.

That $5500 Chinook is definitely not homemade, I had a friend with one of those back in the 70's. It's a 1977, and that's exactly what the original Chinook was - a converted Toyota Hilux. If she could find a later model with a V-6, automatic transmission, and A/C, I think that's exactly what she's looking for.

From Wikipedia:

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Recreational vehicles (RV) have been built on Toyota truck chassis since the introduction of the Toyota Chinook in 1977 on a standard duty chassis until 1993 when the last Winnebago and National coaches were completed on their last remaining 1992 chassis. Since that time there have been a number of manufactures that have used the small Toyota truck chassis to build small class C motor homes including Chinook, RBR, New Horizons, Coachman, Huntsman, National (under both the Dolphin and Seabreaze names), Winnebago Industries (under both the Itasca and Winnebago name), and Gardner Pacific (under the Sunrader name). Beginning in 1986 RV manufacturers began using the heavier Toyota 1 ton cab and chassis.

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Originally Posted by glc

If she could find a later model with a V-6, automatic transmission, and A/C, I think that's exactly what she's looking for.

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Once again, you are spot on. That is exactly what I want... with a three way fridge. Nothing bigger than 6 cyl. And no longer than about 17'. Class B is usually about 20' or 22'. Remember... it's gonna be driven by a lol.

There are some in LV, but there must be more elsewhere. Would be nice to check out others for comparison.

Lifey

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Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

I'd still recommend renting one for a trip and see if that really is going to work.

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You sound as if I don't know what I'm talking about. We drove the VW Microbus, and VW Bus for decades, when going on holidays with the family. I am familiar with the vehicle, and feel comfortable with its size. Many folk whom we have known over the decades, have VW campers, and lots have taken them on the Wallaby (the round Australia trip). It is going to work, don't you worry! And with a three way fridge, will not even need a hook-up in a campground.

And besides all that.... would you really want to be restricted by the terms of a rental agreement? And how much would six months rental be worth... multiply that by several trips - probably one a year from now on - and you will soon have covered the cost of a camper, and its upkeep. Besides, friends in MN will have use of it while I am out of the country.

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Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

One of the best times of the year to be looking is late Fall to early Winter (in North America = October to November) when many folks are putting their camper vans to bed for the winter and debating about the storage costs.

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That was what I was wondering... what the best time is to look for one. Ideally I would like an ex rental, but they all seem to have so many fittings in them. I don't need things like water tanks and all that. It only helps to make the vehicle heavier, and guzzle more gas!

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Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist

What I really recommend you do is contact our two long-time RV Lifestyle correspondents -- they know just about everyone in the greater RV "commercial" community and they'd be an excellent resource for you.

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Thank you, will do.

I have found a couple of very helpful RV dealerships who, although not dealing in the smaller vans, have offered to put out nationwide alerts to see if they can find one. But I would not expect them to put much of their time into looking for a vehicle for me.

Lifey

Lifey, how about some of these? Toyota motorhomes, 17 to 22 feet, some 4 cylinder, some V-6, some automatics, some manuals.

Have you stumbled across this site ? There seems to be something for all budgets.

On the same site I came across this company who restores them. You might not want something fully restored but they might be worth contacting to see if they would sell something with good mechanics in a more 'natural' state.

Gee, thanks guys. I had not come across those sites, though I have a dozen or so which I am watching... included in them the VW Owners site and other VW specialist sites.

glc, those Toyotas are not like the ones with which I am familiar. You see, what I like so much about the VW, and which is the same in the Toyota and Nissan here, is that you can move from the driver's seat to your bed, without having to go outside the van. (The same as I had in the Dodge Caravan last trip, just walk between the two front seats.)

Dave, thanks for those great links. I had not come across either of them, but then, I think I was more focused on sites which had forums where I could ask questions, etc.

That first link in particular, is very helpful. It raises more questions than it answers, but I will deal with that in due course. All I really need is a vehicle in which I can arrange some sleeping space and a fridge to keep my perishables from spoiling without draining the battery when the engine is not running, i.e. a three way fridge (or even a two way fridge).

The restored vans look fantastic. I will try to contact the firm and see what I can get from them. The ones pictured are more than a little outside my budget, but then, who knows what I could pick up. So thanks.

Check out this place, which is in LV. These are the closest I have seen to what I am looking for. They still are far more luxurious than I desire, and have many features without which I can well do. They are also the only ones I have seen who mention a three way fridge. I have had valuable help in checking out this place.

Lifey

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but then, I think I was more focused on sites which had forums where I could ask questions, etc.

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You probably noticed that you can sign up for the forums on that site.

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Check out this place, which is in LV.

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I have had that place saved on my computer for some time for future reference, as an option if just the 2 of us travel next time. I checked it out earlier to double check whether they had a sales Dept as well.

That's the only downside of the VW for what you want, and that's the high price they demand. OK for resale purpose's, but doesn't help when purchasing. I can't seem to find much on the Mazda Bongo type Japanese vehicle in the US, but I think they would be a great choice for you.

[Better do some more packing now].

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Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

I checked it out earlier to double check whether they had a sales Dept as well.

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With the help of an RTA member, that has already been checked out... and yes, I have all those details.

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Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

That's the only downside of the VW for what you want, and that's the high price they demand.

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That is only because they are such a fantastic vehicle, easy to handle, economical and go forever. I also discovered, while going through those links, that what they call a Van, was called a Bus here. My husband always wanted to get the number plate VWBUS.

Lifey

Have just now spent three quarters of an hour on the phone, chatting with Don at Autotourusa.com. An extremely valuable phone call. Learned heaps. Gave me leads to alternatives, which will give me what I am looking for. Still trying to sort it all out in my own head, and now have several more sites to follow up.

Also told him about this site. He said he had never heard of it, but would now check it out. Sure hope he does.

Lifey

Thanks for inviting him to take a look. We'd love to have someone associated with autotourusa.com checking in from time to time.

Mark

An update, and a request.

The researching has continued over the last six or eight weeks, and now it looks like a suitable vehicle may have been found. It is definitely the first vehicle which I would seriously consider.

Next comes the pre-purchase inspection and report. These are a normal thing here, before purchasing a secondhand vehicle. However, it seems the concept is foreign to most folk in the USA. In Oz, as well as in the UK, the automobile clubs have quialified folk who do this for a fee. Here the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce (VACC) offers a similar service. In fact, there is a whole industry around independent pre-purchase inspections and reports. Few would consider buying a car without one. The money invested in such a report, is well worth the peace of mind offered.

I would be very interested if anyone knows of such a service in the USA.

Meanwhile I have contacted the local Ford dealer, in the same town where the vehicle (a Ford) is located, to see if they are able and willing to do the inspection and give me an independent report on the condition of every aspect of the vehicle.

A decade old dream is about to come to fruition.

Lifey

I think you're already on the right track by contacting the local Ford dealership. I can't think of anything that would compare to the association that you're used too. Here, if people are going to get an inspection (and far few people do/or at least have enough of a mechanical background to make an informed decision) they will take it to their personal mechanic. Since you obviously don't have a local mechanic, then going to the dealership should be a good bet (although you'll pay a little more than going to an independent garage.)

Michael, don't let me take all the credit for that choice. It was at the suggestion of our friend and colleague, glc, that I knew how to go about getting an independent report. The problem with getting a local mechanic was, that I do not know who is a buddy of the seller, and I could end up with a report which is not so independent. Speaking with said member, we decided that the best way to go was through the local dealership. It's actually located in your general direction. Just 50 miles south of Chicago.

Lifey

It came a bit late for me, as I have already arranged the inspection through the Ford dealer, but for future reference, I shall post this here. It is still a puzzle to me that this is not more widely known.

National Auto Inspection Services - Pre Purchase Used Car Inspection.

Am seriously thinking of getting them to check the vehicle out, as well. Have requested a quote.

Lifey

I apologize - I honestly didn't know companies like that existed.

.........it appears NAIS is a national agency which contracts with local independent mechanics and body shops to do the inspections, so your concerns about possible conflicts of interest between a seller and a local shop seem to still be present. I do not perceive NAIS to be a business with a physical presence in Cities A, B, and C. On the contrary, I imagine the local mechanic's shops and body shops contracted to NAIS field a phone call or email from NAIS, drive a short distance to the seller's location, whip out a quick report, and are back at their shop in < 1 hour. With ASE and qualified shop hourly labor rates running $75-100/hour, or more, I can not envision contracted inspectors devoting much time to these tasks.

In looking through the FAQs, I see the inspector will NOT personally test-drive the vehicle, but instead MAY do a ride-along for UP TO 5 miles. I personally find it hard to evaluate steering, braking, suspension behavior, transmission behavior on a ride-along, and 5 miles strikes me as a short test-drive.

The inspectors only inspect the underside of the vehicle IF the seller has a lift and IF the seller agrees to lift the vehicle.

There is no opportunity for a compression test.

All of that said, I find the fee to be entirely reasonable and an inspection via NAIS to be far, far better than none at all. With a dealership seller, I'd want assurances the inspector would have access to the underside of the vehicle via the dealership's lift. I would absolutely require same where a vehicle owned/used in snow/ice/salt country is concerned, as there seems to be no way to evaluate levels of corrosion related to winter use in northern climes absent an up-close look underneath.

Glad to see you're making progress, Lifey. Wish I could be more help.

Foy

Yup Foy.... I read all that before I posted. The whole darn site.

Exactly the way it works here. That is exactly how our automobile club works. None of the mechanics are employed by them, but they are all answerable to them.

Lifey

The Red report here would appear to be a thorough report [Have not read it through] with a test drive, a full report and photographs. The downside [I think] it is $349, plus a dollar a mile for every mile travelled over 25 miles from there nearest shop. Although you shouldn't have too much to worry about when using a Ford main dealer service to inspect it anyway, unless something came up that you thought needed a second opinion.

If it's possible, I would want them to do a full governmental road safety inspection test with paperwork to help insure no corners are cut. I don't know what it is called, but the equivalent of the UK's MOT test that you are required to have to use the vehicle on the public highway. Over here, it doesn't matter if it has 9 months of the year left to run, you can still book another test if you have concerns. It's a fixed rate and covers brakes, tyres, steering, suspension, lights, rust, emissions, even light bulbs and wiper blades etc but not mechanical condition. As the MOT is a goverment document and recorded, they take extra care before passing the vehicle 'fit for the road'. Is it the same in the USA ? Perhaps the Ford dealer could do the official test and carry out a mechanical check and service ?

Dave, that sounds the same as what we have here, the roadworthy certificate. You really can't sell a vehicle without it. Not that there is a law against it, but no one will buy it. It would mean that they have to get one, and get repairs done, if necessary, before they can register it.

I have already spoken at length with the Ford dealership, and sent them an email with the list of things I want looked at. But they will not do it till the cheque from friend arrives and is cleared. OMG! I find that so hard to cope with. I don't know anyone who still uses cheques. Here all banking and payments are done by electronic transfer, from bank account to bank account - regardless of which bank it comes from or which bank it goes to... even credit unions, etc. So I am totally dependent on calling my friend, tell what cheque to write, mail it, and wait for USPS to deliver it, then wait for the bank to get back to the issuing bank to clear it.... and a couple of weeks have gone.

And friend who has all my money leaves for Europe on 15th October.

NAIS is on my list to call, in a few hours. It is one of three calls on my list for am USA time. That makes the total this week to almost two dozen. Thank God for Skype. Without it, I would not be able to call Toll Free numbers, toll free. Not that they are all toll free, but it softens the blow. (And you know how big that blow is.)

Next comes organising the six months storage.

Lifey

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Dave, that sounds the same as what we have here, the roadworthy certificate. You really can't sell a vehicle without it. Not that there is a law against it, but no one will buy it. It would mean that they have to get one, and get repairs done, if necessary, before they can register it.

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Exactly that. My thinking was that to carry out that sort of inpection privately, it would cost at least double the fixed maximum fee that could be charged for the test that is pre set by the government. [Over here anyway] So even though the vehicle might have had a test a few months ago, it doesn't mean there is nothing wrong now. Re-testing it could be a way of a cheap and thorough examination of the road worthiness side of things [NOT MECHANICAL, although emissions test can sometimes give an idea]. The other thing is that although you are paying the bill, the work is done for the government and recorded on computers and other than the most 'dodgy' dealers, means you will get a fair and unbiased test unbiased report as the workshops are subject to inspections and punishment, if they do not do the job properly, so not such a big risk of a big tip from the owner to turn a blind eye. [lol] . [Again, that's this side of the pond, so one of our US mates will be able to advise better on what happens there.]

When I buy a second hand vehicle [which is quite often, ask Lezli LOL] with anything under half it's ticket left, I inspect it and service if needed and then take it to re-new it's ticket. A brand new ticket increases the value of of the vehicle and put's your mind at rest that you haven't missed anything.

At least partly the reason there is no such national vehicle condition license/regulation is that every individual state makes up it's own laws on such matters. The Federal government has no role here. The closest national-level program would be the Car Fax program that keeps track of car wrecks and car repairs for the vehicle in it's databases.

Mark

Interesting, Mark.

That is exactly how it is here. I only know the details of the Victorian RWC, but I hear that NSW is much more strict... a bit like CA. I have never checked up to see what the requirements are in all the other States and Territories. All motor vehicle registrations, third party insurance and licencing of drivers is on a State by State basis. As are the blood alcohol levels. They vary from .02 to .08. At least the States have agreed on speed limits. We are no longer faced with different limits there... not since the Northern Territory embraced the concept of speed limits. Until a decade or so ago, it was a free-for-all there.

The Carfax program is a totally different thing. Here a similar prgram is administered by the RTA (Road Traffic Authority).

Lifey

There is no national vehicle inspection program here. It's all up to the individual states. Some states have a periodic safety inspection requirement, and the way they are administered and how in depth they are varies widely. NONE of them are anywhere near in-depth as a UK MOT. Illinois does not have a safety inspection except for large commercial vehicles, and there is an emission inspection requirement only in certain counties.

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In looking through the FAQs, I see the inspector will NOT personally test-drive the vehicle, but instead MAY do a ride-along for UP TO 5 miles. I personally find it hard to evaluate steering, braking, suspension behavior, transmission behavior on a ride-along, and 5 miles strikes me as a short test-drive.

The inspectors only inspect the underside of the vehicle IF the seller has a lift and IF the seller agrees to lift the vehicle.

There is no opportunity for a compression test.

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With that in mind, I think you are going to get a better inspection at the Ford dealer, because YOU can specify how in-depth you want it to be, and they have all the tools and equipment right there to do it. The sky is the limit - at around $100/hr.

If I understood you correctly, you are going to be registering this vehicle in Montana? If so, that's one of the easier states and they have no inspection requirement.

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I have already spoken at length with the Ford dealership, and sent them an email with the list of things I want looked at. But they will not do it till the cheque from friend arrives and is cleared. OMG! I find that so hard to cope with. I don't know anyone who still uses cheques. Here all banking and payments are done by electronic transfer, from bank account to bank account - regardless of which bank it comes from or which bank it goes to... even credit unions, etc. So I am totally dependent on calling my friend, tell what cheque to write, mail it, and wait for USPS to deliver it, then wait for the bank to get back to the issuing bank to clear it.... and a couple of weeks have gone.

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Your friend could have done this electronically through various means - credit card, debit card, wire transfer.

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Originally Posted by glc

If I understood you correctly, you are going to be registering this vehicle in Montana? If so, that's one of the easier states and they have no inspection requirement.

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Frankly mate, I have no concern at all about any State's requirements. I am only thinking about my requirements. At the top of that list is safety (interesting how none mention inspecting the seatbelts for wear and / or damage) and reliability. I want to avoid as far as I can, ending up like the poor lady from Canada. And I am sure that once I get to St Paul, I will probably get the mechanic I have got to know there, to give it the once over... especially as by then, it will have been sitting for six months.

I far prefer to spend my dollars there, than to have to make an insurance claim or call the AAA.

Oh boy, by the time I hit the road, I will have enough material on this topic, to write a book. lol

Lifey

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Frankly mate, I have no concern at all about any State's requirements. I am only thinking about my requirements.

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Of course - I completely understand. That's why you need to specify just how in-depth you want your inspection to be.

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Originally Posted by Lifemagician

Exactly the way it works here. That is exactly how our automobile club works. None of the mechanics are employed by them, but they are all answerable to them.

Lifey

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Yes, I would expect similar contract arrangements in any country. While my opinion that a NAIS-style inspection is entirely preferable to none at all, I don't get a warm, fuzzy feeling that the contracted inspectors are exactly shaking in their boots at the prospects of incurring the ire of NAIS over questions, problems, or complaints about their work product. As such, "answerable to them" means little to me.

Foy

I tend to agree with Foy, that since this inspection organization really isn't known to anyone, except those who really seek it out, it really is much more of a referral/marketing service for local garages than anything else.

There's nothing wrong with it, and has been said, its better than nothing, but I don't think it really is comparable to something like AAA, where a garage will actually work hard to maintain on a "recommended" list.

My mother, a woman with little education, had great difficulty coming to grips with the English language. Even after half a century in this country, it was sometimes obvious that we were not getting through. We could discuss things at length with her, but frequently, it would be one simplistic question which made it clear to us that what we were saying was not what she was hearing. That gap, call it linguistic, call it cultural, call it what you may, was never bridged.

As I read some of the responses above, I get exactly the same feeling. There is no point going into more detail. The words I use, are not conveying my meaning to the recipients. It is just another example of two peoples divided by a common language.

Lifey

Lifey,

I don't think I'm seeing any "lost in translation" issues here -- but just to be as clear as possible.... None of the expert members of this Forum think the NAIS inspection is a good use of money. The local Ford dealership is a better bet, but nothing can really guarantee that your new camper van will be free of maintenance issues. Ultimately, you'll have to deal with that in person. That is the nature of purchasing any used product.

Mark

Let me expand on that - I get the impression the NAIS inspection is conducted "on-site" without the aid of a lift or specialty tools by a "general" mechanic. I have the ability to do such an inspection, and believe me, it would be very cursory compared to what you get *IN* a shop with equipment, tools, and factory certified technicians. It would certainly be better than nothing, but it probably wouldn't uncover anywhere near as much.

I would be very surprised if the NAIS inspector has a $20k computer with him that's capable of running a full electronic diagnosis, for example.

Yes, Lifey, the most concise summary I can offer of what's been said here is:

There is no form of pre-purchase inspection which will provide absolute assurance of a vehicle's condition or a warranty.

The NAIS-style inspection is better than none at all, but not as good as an "in-shop" inspection by a qualified mechanic who has access to his expensive diagnostic computer, a lift, and who can and will personally drive the vehicle a greater distance than just "around the block" to test its overall function.

So, even after the most rigorous inspection available, failure of vehicle components can occur, and there will be no opportunity to hold any individual or business responsible for the failure.

Foy