SF to Las Vegas return west coast - Clockwise or Anti-Clockwise best?

Hi

I have been browsing this great site and have found most of what I was looking for already because of this very popular tour. Couple of unanswered things though all to do with my planning the California "loop" trip - San Francisco, Yosemite, Las Vega, West Coast.

Question 1 is there any preference for clockwise or anti-clockwise direction. My thought was because you guys drive on the wrong side of the road (just joking!) it would be best to do route 1 coast first so take the anti-clock direction round. That way we would be driving on the coast side of the road. But I see from the post on this site that lots of people plan the clockwise route so I just wonder if there is a preference.

Second question is best time of year? We could do either late May/early June or mid September. I read that fog can be an issue on the coast stretch in early summer and also the mountain passes can't be relied upon to be open. But possibly the snow scenery would be fantastic in early June if the passes have only just opened.

Thanks in advance for what I know will be great answers

Richard

Welcome to the RTA Forum - and thanks for doing your homework before asking your question!

It seems like you actually have a very good grasp of things, and I don't think these responses will be at all a surprise to you.

First, going down the coast first is probably your better bet, for the exact reason you talked about being closer to the ocean and you won't have to cross traffic to get into the turnouts. There is nothing wrong with going south to north, in fact that's how I've done the trip and I really don't feel like I missed anything, but if this is a loop, I'd go north to south along the coast since that's the one area where you could notice a difference in the direction you choose to travel.

For time of year, I'd choose the fall. The Sierra Passes will be beautiful any time you travel them (and in September, you should start seeing some fall colors too!) but when you factor in the major detour that's involved if the passes are still closed in May/June, I'd go later. Again - if you could only do the trip in May/June, I wouldn't let that stop you from doing it, but if your options are equal, I'd go in September.

Many thanks, sounds like good advice.

I really enjoy travelling in Sept/Oct when the crowds are dwindling away, the Fall colours come alive and the temps are generally ideal, [for me anyway!] but for one very special reason I hope to go back to Yosemite in May or June someday, and that is to see the waterfalls at full flow as the snow melts. These become pretty dry by the time Sept arrives but there are so many scenic wonders to keep you amazed !

Gee, I know that's not much help but it is something you might want to consider in your final decision making.

Hi, I have read most of the many posts regarding the loop-trip I am planning from SF, Down the Big Sur, across to Las Vegas, back via Yosemite and Lake Taho on this excellent site, but I have a couple of specif questions.
I understand its best not to drive to Las Vegas on a Friday evening - or indeed stay in LV over a weekend - unless you have to. I will travelling in September and reckon we will be around Santa Barbara on a Saturday. I have no desire to go anywhere near LA (been there, done it!) and I would like to reach LV on the Monday or Tuesday, 2 to 3 days later. I had selected to cross to Barstow (overnight stay) to split the journey but because I could add in the extra day, maybe there is a more scenic or interesting route. Suggestions would be most welcome.
Secondly, I understand that apart from the stop-overs in LV and Yosemite, there is probably no need to book overnight stays in advance, so you gain some freedom. Do you think that in September we could say use "Best Western's" or similar - we need to keep to a budget (not LV!) of around $100 maximum per double room per night - without pre-booking?
Looking forward to the responses,
Richard

Mod note] Please keep all questions related to this trip in one thread. Thank-you.

Have you considered driving to the South rim of Grand Canyon NP ? Sure it will add some miles but it would be a worthwhile treat with 3 days to spare. On the way back to Vegas you could even detour onto route 66 through the 66 town of Seligman and stop at the Hoover dam. Other options would include a trip into the Mojave National Preserve, or you coulddetour to Sequoia NP, and/or take a trip through the National Forest between Porterville and Kernville to Lake Isabella.

You shouldn't have a problem finding decent lodgings for around $100 per night.

Thanks for the response Dave. My wife adores "Helecopter Rides" and I promised her a trip out from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon (some also take you down to the canyon floor) so have left this off the road tour. She would kill me if I took the helicopter off the itinerary!
I did wonder about taking the Angeles Crest highway (pictures look great) and also the Mojave National preserve but this looks a little bleak and I really wouldn't know where to stop-over for the night.

A helicopter tour, especially one from Las Vegas, shouldn't mean that you cross the Grand Canyon off your list.

First most Vegas-based Helicopters only go over the West Rim, which is on Indian Reservation lands and is not as deep or spectacular as the portion within the National Park. That is certainly true for the ones that go down in the Canyon, as below the rim flights are not allowed within the National Park.

Second, the experience from the air is different from the one standing on the edge. They are both great, but it's not a case where just because you've seen the Canyon from the air, you don't need to see it from ground or vice-versa.

If it were me, I'd think about driving to Grand Canyon National Park, and then look at some of the air tours based out of the Grand Canyon Airport.

I will go back a bit to your previous post, I-15 can get quite busy between LA and Vegas on Friday, but it's not so bad you need to avoid it. Vegas is also a spot that is busy every day - weekend have tourists, but weekdays are filled with convention visitors. I've found some of my best travel bargins ever on weekends in Vegas. I certainly wouldn't rework my trip just to avoid being there on a weekend - although I would still recommend the drive out to the Grand Canyon.

Richard, I would have to agree with Michael. There is no comparison between the West Rim and the National Park. Just as there is no comparison between a flight over (even landing in) the Grand Canyon, and standing on the Rim. If you want to give your wife a real treat (and the budget can take it), you could head straight for the Grand Canyon Airport for a flight, then visit the Grand Canyon on foot and if still interested, take the helicopter flight from LV. You'll have the best of all worlds and can compare for yourself.

Lifey

Many thanks Lifey and Michael - this sounds excellent advice and now re-working the route. As long as there is a helicopter in it somewhere then I will be forgiven the extra miles!

Just one thing that has occurred to me. When I check distances between places on Google Maps it gives me a "Driving Time" as well as the mileage and if you do the math, mostly this works out at an average driving speed of over 60 MPH ! As I understand it, the USA has a national speed limit of 55 MPH and I would reckon that on standard highways - like 1-15 and 66 - it would be difficult to average more than say 40 MPH whilst actually driving and with the inevitable stops to take photos, coffee and stop at attractions, I'm guessing that 150 - 200 miles a day is the maximum one should allow to make it a holiday rather than a chore. Would this be a good target to aim at.

Richard

The Grand canyon airport is located in Tusayan just outside the south entrance to the park, and the 45/50min flight over the National park to the North rim and back is a truly magnificent experience. Taking a stroll along the South rim and taking in the views and having the opportunity to witness a sunset/rise is also very special. As you appear to have the time available, do not miss this chance to see this natural wonder of the world, which can only truly be found within the National park itself.

Online mapping programs do not live in the real world, and you are quite right in identifying that you will take quite a bit longer to cover any given distance. However, I would not limit myself to any given distance per day. You may find that some days you will barely do 100 miles, on others you might be in the car most of the day and cover up to 500. Just depends on how much there is along the way that you want to check out. Of course, on the interstates you will always travel at a greater speed than on the secondary highways and the local roads. Mostly you will find the speed limit to be at least 65 mph, at times greater, rarely less on an interstate.

Lifey

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Just one thing that has occurred to me. When I check distances between places on Google Maps it gives me a "Driving Time" as well as the mileage and if you do the math, mostly this works out at an average driving speed of over 60 MPH ! As I understand it, the USA has a national speed limit of 55 MPH and I would reckon that on standard highways - like 1-15 and 66 - it would be difficult to average more than say 40 MPH whilst actually driving and with the inevitable stops to take photos, coffee and stop at attractions, I'm guessing that 150 - 200 miles a day is the maximum one should allow to make it a holiday rather than a chore. Would this be a good target to aim at.

Richard

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You are right in thinking that on-line mapping programs are overly optimistic when it comes to travel times as they do not allow for construction or congestion delays, the need to stop for gas, go to the bathroom, eat, have a stretch and a short rest, and on longer journeys nor do they consider us humans have the need to sleep.

Having said that, no the USA does not have a National speed limit of 55mph [Rural Interstates are generally 70/75mph and Urban can be 55mph] and 150-200 miles would be a very casual day on the road. In fact we usually recommend [for those that want to/ think they can match the pace of the mapping programs] that a full day of travel on a multi day road trip should not exceed 550-600 when using main US routes, which would be about 9-10 hours on the road. Of course that would not include time for sight seeing, just the appropriate stops as set out above. This would mean that you could get from Santa B to GC village the same day, and although I wouldn't call driving this distance on US roads a "Chore", it would be more 'business' like. With one overnight stop on route, and driving from GC back to Vegas the same day, it should feel positively relaxed. Perhaps on the way you could stop overnight in Lake Havasu City, [now home to London Bridge] Laughlin or Kingman.

This is really useful info - thanks everyone.
Now to re-draw the route - again!
Richard

Santa Barbara to the Grand Canyon is going to be a bit of a stretch in 1 day. To avoid LA traffic, take US-101 toward LA, then take CA-126 to and into Santa Clarita, then Valencia Blvd and Soledad Canyon Rd to CA-14. Take that to the Sierra Hwy/Pearblossom Hwy which becomes CA-138 then CA-18 to I-15. Take that to Barstow and take I-40 to Williams and AZ-64 to the park. Depending on how far you want to drive that day, you can stop for the night in Barstow, Kingman, or Williams. Between Kingman and Seligman, you can either stay on I-40 or take old 66.

If you do want to spend the time to take the Angeles Crest (CA-2), when you get to Santa Clarita, take I-5 to I-210 to La Canada-Flintridge to pick it up. This will drop you on CA-138 which you can take to I-15. If you go that way, you will probably want to spend the night in Victorville or Barstow.

The national 55 mph speed limit was repealed quite a few years ago. The open road freeway speed limit is 70 in CA and 75 in AZ. The open road non-freeway limits vary from 55 to 65.

Add 20% to Google drive times to get a more realistic estimate, that would also allow for brief stops for fuel and bathroom.

Richard,

Thank you for your interest in California, it is a fantastic state. Here are some thoughts about your itinerary: If you are heading to Vegas from Santa Barbara you will hit the upper portion of the LA area. From Santa Barbara I would recommend you go thru Santa Clarita to Palmdale, Victorville and then Barstow. Barstow has a number of motels. I just recently stayed in the Holiday Inn and it was excellent. The best advice on hotels is go to Yahoo Maps and when you bring up the Barstow area, enter "motels" in the search window and then read the customer reviews. They are usually a good guide. Motel 6s are very uneven but usually ok for a place to rest and move on. Best Westerns are also good, but uneven. So check the customer comments.

Regarding Yosemite. I have noticed on other posts that people talk as if it is just a short jog off the main highway. It is not. From Vegas you can get there two ways: 1. The backside over Tioga pass from US 395. The pass is over 9,000 feet and you end up in Tuolumne Meadows, which is still about 30 windy miles away from Yosemite valley, which is where all the beautiful falls are located. 2. Or you can cross the Sierras at Tehachapi Pass and go north on US 99 to Merced and enter the part from the West. Then it is 80 windy miles to the Valley. Either way, from Vegas, Yosemite will be a very long day. I would recommend you stay in the Park to enjoy its beauty. And it is beautiful.

To get from Yosemite to Lake Tahoe you need to either exit east, back over Tioga or west, back down to Merced. There is no other way. US 395 north is a beautiful drive up the Eastern Slope of the Sierras. US 99 is called the Aggie Highway because it goes through California's most productive farming regions, however the views aren't that great. From US 99 you would take US 50 to South Lake Tahoe, one of the most beautiful areas in the world. The view from Echo Summit is spectacular. From South Lake Tahoe you can drive around the lake and pick up Interstate 80 at Truckee and go over Donner Pass back to San Francisco.

A recommended place to stay at Tahoe is The Ridge Tahoe. The views are amazing and the prices are reasonable for a small hotel room.

Hope you enjoy California,

Val Sutter, Sacramento, CA

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There is no other way.

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There are several other ways that don't require you to go all the way back out to Merced and up 99 to Sacto. You can take 120 out of the park to 108 to Jamestown - and take 108 over Sonora Pass, or take 49 to either 4 (Ebbetts Pass) or to 88 (Carson Pass) or to 50.

Thanks for your input Val, it's much appreciated.

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Originally posted by vtsutter.Regarding Yosemite. I have noticed on other posts that people talk as if it is just a short jog off the main highway

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Interesting that you have found posts that make you think that. Just about everyone that plans to travel from Vegas to Yosemite in a single day is advised time and time again not to do so, and that there should be at least one overnight stop to allow plenty of time for taking in the views over Tioga Pass .

There is so much more to see between LV and Yosemite. As mentioned above, it would be a shame to just speed run up 395. Take some time to smell the roses (well, maybe not roses - lol). If you were to drive through Death Valley, it would in my book be a sin to just speed through there, and not take time to admire the fantastic landscape.

Lifey

Hi Val
Many thanks for this full answer. The current "draft" route allowed for two overnight stops for Yosemite, either stopping in the Mono Lake area and travelling into Yosemite and back for a full day or even better, staying for two nights in the park itself. The route to Lake Tahoe is to use the East side of the Sierras along US 395 and its good to know this is a very scenic drive. We were also planning to take two days from Las Vagas to Yosemite, probably stopping in the Lone Pine area on-route because then we could take time to explore Death Valley and some of the wilderness parks along the way.

RE Lake Tahoe, From South Lake is it best to use the Eastern side (on the "50" or the West side (on the "89") to get to Truckee?

All the best

Richard

If you are taking Tioga Pass and 395 to get to SLT, I'd recommend you pick up CA-89 at Topaz. This will take you over Monitor Pass and Luther Pass and is a lot more scenic than the NV section of 395.

Why would you be going to Truckee? If you are heading for SF after Tahoe, I'd take US-50 to Sacramento to pick up I-80. However, time permitting I'd plan on driving all the way around the lake as a "day trip" while you are there - it only takes a few hours driving at a leisurely pace.

Good advice, thanks. One of the problems us Brits have is understanding your distances and driving times. Looking at the map we would never think that you could drive around Lake Tahoe - approx 75 miles - in a "few hours". Over here in the UK whilst the mileage itself is not off-putting it would take most of a day and mostly in traffic jams!
R

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Originally Posted by Richard Knight

... and mostly in traffic jams!

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In summer you might even see some of those.

It's a very scenic trip though, and worth getting out of the car at a few points.

Lifey

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Over here in the UK whilst the mileage itself is not off-putting it would take most of a day and mostly in traffic jams!
R

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Trust me Richard, driving in the USA is complete heaven [most of the time ]compared to here in the UK, and moreso for us that live in the rather congested southeast corner of England !

Dave.

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Originally Posted by Richard Knight

RE Lake Tahoe, From South Lake is it best to use the Eastern side (on the "50" or the West side (on the "89") to get to Truckee?

All the best

Richard

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Either way works, but I like the Western side better to go by Emerald Bay.

Jon

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Originally Posted by Richard Knight

As I understand it, the USA has a national speed limit of 55 MPH and I would reckon that on standard highways - like 1-15 and 66 - it would be difficult to average more than say 40 MPH whilst actually driving and with the inevitable stops to take photos, coffee and stop at attractions, I'm guessing that 150 - 200 miles a day is the maximum one should allow to make it a holiday rather than a chore. Would this be a good target to aim at.

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First of all, there is NO national speed limit. Even on Federal highways, the speed limits imposed are set by the states. Some Federal highways have 75 mph for instance. As a general rule, one can expect to average 50 mph over the course of an 8-10 travel day east of the Mississippi River and about 57 mph over the course of 8-10 travel day west of the Mississippi River.

On RTA, we recommend a maximum of 500 miles per day -- which takes about 8-10 hours of travel. Obviously, if you could limit your drive to 200 miles per day -- it would be very leisurely!

As a pro -- it is possible to drive 800+ miles per day -- it's just not very wise....

Mark