Grand Canyon, Vegas, Yosemite, Yellowstone, and Glacier Road Trip

Hello there,

Fantastic site!

I live in Tennessee and in May/June I'm taking a 3-week solo road trip to the destinations listed in the title.

Here's a link to the itinerary: (link removed -- January 2024)


Since the pace will be fairly quick, and since I'll be spending a lot of time on the road getting TO and FROM these destinations, I obviously want a comfortable rental car.

I took a similar road trip (albeit shorter) last year, and I rented a "full size car," an Impala. It was very comfortable and I was satisfied. However, I need space on this roadtrip, specifically for a big cooler I'm taking. Last year I put it in the back seat and it sloshed around a lot and was harder to access. I was thinking of renting a mid-sized SUV so I can store stuff in the back a little better.

The alternative is to go with a "full size" again or a "premium" (which would be cheaper) for maximum comfort. Other solutions include getting another cooler that might fit better in the back seat or trunk, etc. I'll also be in bear country in most of those national parks, and I hear they attack SUVs and vans more than passenger cars. Not a huge concern, but also a factor. I guess I'm looking for some brainstorming from all of you road tripping professionals...or at least advanced amateurs, right? :)

General comments about the road trip itinerary are appreciated, as well as tips for any and all of those parks, lodging, eats, etc. Any "must see" or "must do" or "must eat" places. I realize it is a fast pace, and there are sets of long driving days and some night drives involved. I want to thoroughly enjoy this road trip, and though the pace is quick, I can maximize my time seeing the sights. Last year's trip was great, even with very long driving days and nights...part of the fun, strangely enough.

Couple more things: I'm going to get an "America the Beautiful" national park pass when I get to Grand Canyon NP. If I get a national park pass on May 1, 2010, let's say, is it good until May 31, 2011? I saw conflicting/incomplete information on different websites. My interpretation is it is good until the END of the month a year from when you buy it. The reason being, I might be able to use the SAME pass next year! Also, I know there is a national park "stamp book"...what's the best place to procure one of those?

Thanks so much for reading this...any and all help and comments are very appreciated.

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

I've got to say that I've never heard that bears attack SUVs or Vans more than cars - and if someone has also given you any sort of logic as to why that might be, I'd love to hear it. But really, I think someone is really telling you a tall tale there.

For rental car, I'd say a premium or full sized car is going to be your best bet for both cost and comfort. I'm not sure how you had your cooler set up before, but most full sized cars should give you room to put the cooler on the floor between the front and back seats - and usually a full sized car will have at least as much, if not more rear legroom than a mid-sized SUV.

I believe your interpretation of the National Parks pass is correct, that its valid until the end of the month of purchase the following year. Its been a few years since I've purchased one, but I do recall they punch out the month of purchase listed on the card, and its valid til that month of the next year.

Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!

On 'day' 18 you are planning on driving 650 miles overnight? That is near-suicidal. On day 10 you are planning on driving 850 miles overnight? That is even worse. I presume that the fact that you have these two drives highlighted in your spreadsheet means that you are aware that there "might be a problem", but it goes beyond than that. Even if you survive both drives, the next day in each case will be a total waste as you WILL be tired and out of sorts. And yet on the day following your second overnight drive you plan to see the Badlands, Devils Tower and Mount Rushmore AND drive another 375 miles! At least on day 11 your schedule acknowledges the futility of doing anything in one of the most beautiful places on Earth but "rest". I'm sorry, but these two instances of over-optimistic planning will have to go if you really want a safe and enjoyable trip.

AZBuck

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Originally Posted by Midwest Michael

I've got to say that I've never heard that bears attack SUVs or Vans more than cars - and if someone has also given you any sort of logic as to why that might be, I'd love to hear it.

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Well, only for black bears in Yosemite...supposedly they're easier to rip open? The article also says it may just be because people who use vans are more likely to leave food out.

Like I said, this would not necessarily dissuade me from renting an SUV. Thanks for the advice concerning the park pass and vehicle choice. I may just try to get a full size or premium since I've had a good experience with them.

You could always bring 2 coolers - a large one to keep in the trunk and a small one to keep in the car for stuff you need ready access to - transfer items from the big one to the small one at rest stops.

I agree with what's been said - you need to cut the trip down a bit or add some more time. I highly recommend that you not try to drive more than 600 miles in any 24 hour period, and avoid night driving.

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Originally Posted by AZBuck

Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!

On 'day' 18 you are planning on driving 650 miles overnight? That is near-suicidal. On day 10 you are planning on driving 850 miles overnight? That is even worse. I presume that the fact that you have these two drives highlighted in your spreadsheet means that you are aware that there "might be a problem", but it goes beyond than that. Even if you survive both drives, the next day in each case will be a total waste as you WILL be tired and out of sorts. And yet on the day following your second overnight drive you plan to see the Badlands, Devils Tower and Mount Rushmore AND drive another 375 miles! At least on day 11 your schedule acknowledges the futility of doing anything in one of the most beautiful places on Earth but "rest". I'm sorry, but these two instances of over-optimistic planning will have to go if you really want a safe and enjoyable trip.

AZBuck

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Granted, those will be difficult drives. The 850 mile drive from Yosemite to Yellowstone is unavoidable based on how I've planned the trip. BUT, I could stay near Yosemite and then get up very early the next day and drive 850 miles. That's still pushing it, whether day or night.

The 650 followed by 375 is a lot of driving in a small amount of time. I would have to shave a day off Glacier and use that as a drive day and perhaps stay in a motel or camp near Devil's Tower. I might consider doing that.

Thanks for the advice...I will consider it.

Well, I wasn't expecting a scientific journal for your source, good one there.

I hadn't looked at your detailed itinerary before, but wow, I have to completely agree with Buck. Worrying about a bear attacking your car with your current plans makes about as much sense as worrying about change falling of your pocket, while you are laying across railroad tracks with a train heading your way.

Driving 1800 miles from Tennessee to Arizona in 2 days is a very foolish and dangerous way to start your trip, and your plans to drive nearly 900 miles overnight from Yosemite to Yellowstone is so far beyond the pale of rationality that I can't believe you actually put them into a spreadsheet. Certainly, your 650 mile overnight drive a few days later is no better. Trust me, if you can find a one study about bears attacking cars, you could find hundreds of studies about how incredibly dangerous and reckless these kinds of drives would be. "unavoidable based on How You planned your trip" is not a rational reason for doing this, that just means you need to rethink how you've planned it.

These sorts of drives will make you a serious danger to everyone else on the road, and there really is no point worrying about any other detail of your trip until you fix those major problems.

"Driving 1800 miles from Tennessee to Arizona in 2 days is a very foolish and dangerous way to start your trip"

I've done a similar drive before...it was a challenge and I enjoyed it. Part of the road trip I'm really looking forward to, actually. (And I'm not all that worried about bears attacking my car, it was something I just threw in on a whim...I only posted an link because you implied it was something I heard from ol' Uncle Billy Bob or something!!)

However, the overnight drives after full days of sightseeing...I think you are correct about those and I was overzealous in planning. The 850-mile drive can be cut to a ~700 daytime drive if I stay around Reno, NV, the night before from Yosemite and arrive at Tetons in the evening. In addition, I can cut a day from Glacier and drive during the day.

I think I secretly realized I was packing too much in by doing overnight drives...so I appreciate the advice. Good to have an objective source to bring you back to earth! :)

Sadly, your definition of a challenge is basically game of chicken with your safety and the safety of those with whom you share the road. The number of people who try to complete the same sort of "challenges" -even those who have done it before- and end up killing or seriously injuring themselves or someone else is frighteningly high.

Again, the studies on the subject are clear, what you are doing will be every bit as dangerous as driving drunk. If you think your driving skills will be at anywhere peak by the end of your trip, you are fooling yourself. There are reasons that professional drivers are not allowed to drive anywhere near these sort of distances. We can't force you to reconsider your plans, any more than we can keep you from driving while you're drunk, but for the sake of everyone else on the road, we ask that you think about why you think your challenge is more important than our safety.

When I'm tired, I rest and take naps. Long ones, if necessary. How is that playing chicken? I completely agree that the studies show that if you are too tired, there is no difference between that and being intoxicated. It does cause accidents. That is why, when I make long drives, I am very careful. That is why I took the advice to heart about the two overnight drives.

I think you're being too harsh when I essentially agreed with a lot of what you said! I'm a very safe driver...I've NEVER caused an accident in all my years of driving, including long drives, and am not going to do anything stupid such as driving when I need sleep.

Or, actually, I could break that initial mileage up into two days, 900 miles a day. I mean, the 1800 straight provides a lot of flexibility as to where and when I can rest. If I have a destination halfway there, I have to pretty much reach that point to sleep. Truck stops are everywhere and provide good places for naps and/or breaks.

What are the limits on truck drivers? I read something about 11 or 12 hours daily? Is there a mileage limit? I'd be curious to know.

Truckers in the US are allowed to drive about 11 hours a day, which works out to about 600 miles. Actually, truckers in Europe are actually allowed to drive even less because of the research which shows that your driving abilities and skill start to fall off dramatically after about 8-9 hours on the road.

Your current plan has you driving 50% more per day than what American professional drivers are allowed to drive, and basically double that 8-9 hour guideline for those first two day.

Yes, you have dialed back the most extremely insane of your plans, and we appreciate that. However, you are still laying out a plan that is simply put, dangerous to yourself and others on the road. Saying you'll be safe while doing such a drive is really no different than saying you plan to be safe while driving drunk. If you think that's harsh, well, sometimes reality is.

Like I said, we can't stop you from pushing yourself way beyond what has been shown time and again to be safe, but we do ask that you ask yourself why you think you aren't affected by those biological factors and why you think you can safely do vastly more than what professional drivers are allowed to do.

From Wikipedia:

"In the United States, the Hours of Service (HOS) of commercial drivers are regulated by the FederalMotor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers are limited to 11 cumulative hours driving in a 14-hour period, which must then be followed by a rest period of no less than 10 consecutive hours. Drivers employed by carriers in "daily operation" may not drive more than 70 hours within any period of 8 consecutive days."

If you think that you can safely drive 900 miles in 11 hours, or that you are immune to the deleterious effects that these regulations are in force to prevent, or that just because these regulations don't apply to you they have no merit, then you are only deceiving yourself. As Michael pointed out, just because you have taken risks (and put uncounted innocent people at risk) in the past is NO guarantee that you will get away with it again.

And I'm sorry, but relying on your impaired judgement to tell you when your judgement is impaired is simply illogical.

AZBuck

I hope you two are advising all road tripping motorcyclists not to ride motorcycles...they're very dangerous as well. Sheesh! Anyway, as I said you have certainly caused me to reevaluate parts of my trip, and for that I am grateful.

Riding a motorcycle responsibly doesn't put other people's lives in danger - Its very sad that you think reckless behavior like driving drunk or driving tired that endangers the lives of everyone else on the road is even comparable.

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Originally Posted by doctorcherokee

I hope you two are advising all road tripping motorcyclists not to ride motorcycles...they're very dangerous as well.

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Motor cycles in themselves are not dangerous at all,it's the human element that is, but they are more open to the dangers of the road and at higher risk of serious injury in a collision. Bike accident statistics are commonly related to poor driving as they are not as easily visible at junctions and in blind spots, that risk will increase significantly when you are sharing the road with exhausted, speeding or drunk motorists who are below 100% awareness.

Don't take things personally, we get this a lot here but statistics don't lie. We say what we say with concern for yours and everyone else's safety, wouldn't it be irresponsible if we didn't ?

There is every chance that you will do it and get away with it, but that is exactly what you will be doing "getting away with it", this time anyway. Another thing to consider is how are you going to feel after driving for 32 hours in a 48 hour period, I would say not great and the time you gained will be used up recovering and could leave you playing "catch up" for the rest of your trip.

Try and find another day for this leg of your trip and it will be far more rewarding, and please keep in mind that everybody advising you this has vast experience in travelling long distances during multi day trips and has yours, and everyone else who may read this thread, best interests at heart.

"Don't take things personally, we get this a lot here but statistics don't lie. We say what we say with concern for yours and everyone else's safety, wouldn't it be irresponsible if we didn't ?"

I can't argue with that. You are right. I did kind of take it personally, because I've ostensibly never been a drunk or irresponsible driver. Never caused a wreck. I've lived a pretty conservative, straight-laced, one could argue "boring" life and generally don't engage in any high-risk behavior. But I realize the statistics are there for fatigued driving, and I know you all have everyone's best interests at heart and are looking at it objectively.

I have already altered parts of my trip quite a bit to get rid of most night driving, and I will see what I can do for the initial drive out there.

As to motorcycles, the human element is always in play, and though they are not inherently more dangerous there are increased risk factors (including many external that you pointed out) that makes them more dangerous and one could argue that it's unwise or imprudent to use them at all on the road. You are risking your life...perhaps not other people's, but it could be argued that it is also reckless behavior. Perhaps just for yourself and whomever might be on the bike with you. The saying goes: "There are two types of motorcycle riders: Those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash."

Again, I am thankful for the advice. You all have been a great help.

You can certainly call riding a motorcycle dangerous, just as there are lots of other dangerous things out there. Driving without a seatbelt is dangerous, skydiving could be called dangerous, heck, getting into a car in the first place could be called dangerous. You've got every right in the world to do things that might be dangerous.

But the very big difference between something that is dangerous and something that is reckless is that when you are doing something that is reckless you are endangering the lives of others - and that's just not something you'll find any support for on this forum. Especially not when you are trying to make the rather offensive comparison between the two in order to justify your plan that will most certainly be putting other peoples lives at risk.

You still haven't answered the question of why you feel you can safely drive 50% more than what professional drivers are allowed by law to do, but all we can do is hope that you will start to ask yourself that question before embarking on your current plan. The "challenge" as you previously put it of driving these kinds of distances is not worth risking other peoples lives, but I think we've really said all we can say at this point.