Big 'U' across America

My gf and I are planning to drive cross-country for 10 days (one-way) in Mid-Dec.

We'll be renting a car (any advise on cheap rentals?) and leaving from New York. I know our main concern is the weather, so I want to stay predominantly south.

I was thinking we'd head down the East Coast, maybe stop off in Savannah or New Orleans. Drive through Texas and at that point go either through Colorado (high elevation, lot of snow), Arizona or Utah to get to Los Angeles. Then drive up the West Coast via Hwy1 stopping at Napa and SF along the way, before ending it all in Seattle.

We'd like to stop by one of the big parks or the grand canyons, I particularly want to go somewhere isolated and dark - somewhere I can see the stars at night (like in Utah).

As for lodgings, the plan is to alternate nights at random motels and camping in a tent/car.

I know there isn't much time and we have limited daylight to drive in, so does all this sound feasible?

Any recommended routes or stops along the way? Any tips or advisories would be greatly appreciated!

I'll be monitoring the NOAA site for the weeks leading up to and during the trip.

Oh and any estimates on cost of fuel for this trip (@ current rates)?

Welcome aboard the RoadTrip America Forums!

As a general rule-of-thumb, you're looking at 5 days (minimum) to cross the continent and two days each (again, minimum) to go down the east coast and up the west coast, so you have precious little margin of error for any bad weather you'll run into, and precious little spare time to see any of the great places you'll be driving by. Yes, your plan is feasible, but will require some weather luck and/or flexibility. You need to keep in mind that going south is no guarantee of good weather. It can and certainly does snow and sleet across the south and southwest. And when it does, those areas are ill equipped to handle it leading to major accidents and delays.

You should have absolutely no trouble finding dark skies during your trip, particularly if you plan to camp out about half the time. But another thing to be aware of is that car camping by just pulling off on 'isolated' roads will run the risk of trespassing, so you are much better off sticking to state and national parks. Even in the winter, there is plenty of daylight for driving, but you should plan on getting an early start each morning and being off the road, particularly on those evenings when you will be setting up camp, well before dark. Even so, you can plan on making 500-500 miles a day on those days when you aren't spending significant time sightseeing.

As for car and gas costs, you'll just have to do your research on rentals to find the best deal available to you. If either of you are under 25, be sure to factor in the underage driver fee(s), typically around $25/day/driver. Since you haven't said where you're starting from or what kind of car you'll be driving it's impossible for anyone to give you an estimate on fuel costs, but you can use the Fuel Cost Calculator on the left side of this page to get your own estimate.

AZBuck

Thanks AZBuck for your sagely input!

The timing is definitely tight. Would you say it's probably best we skip the East Coast and Texas, instead taking a more direct path to Los Angeles? What route would you recommend for this (we're leaving from NYC)?

How is Rt-50 during this time of year? Is that possible? Should I expect heavy snow?

Also as a question of safety, in the situation where we need to sleep in the car or camp along the road. How far would you say either a car or tent needs to be from the side of the road where it is "safe"? I'd like to avoid a tractor trailer or any other motorcar absently hitting us in the night, but I also don't want to get the car stuck.

Wow, I didn't even notice the 'Fuel Cost Calculator'. My appreciation again!

If you want to pitch a tent, go find a campground. If you want to sleep in the car, do so at a truckstop. Make sure you buy something at the truckstop - such as breakfast, gas, or a shower.

Pulling off the road to do either is generally considered trespassing and can get you in trouble.

Actually, dropping Savannah and New Orleans, and taking the most direct route to Los Angeles from New York City only saves you about 400 miles, or roughly a day's drive. You'd still have about 8 days of driving, so as long as L.A. is definitely in your itinerary you might as well find a route that you'll enjoy. I think, though, that even with time that tight, I might try to include the Grand Canyon by going via St. Louis and Oklahoma City to I-40 west. That still leaves you with 4000+ miles and eight days driving.

US-50 doesn't take you to Los Angeles and doesn't have the speed limits (except across northern Nevada) to make it a viable option. What you should really do is map out 2 or 3 possible routes and then choose which way to go just before you leave and have a much better idea of what the weather along your possible routes will be.

The problem with just 'pulling off the road' to car camp is not a safety issue (usually) but a trespassing issue. If you are actually just on the shoulder of a well traveled highway, I can almost guarantee you that you will get a knock on your window from a trooper at some time during the night and be told to move on (if you're lucky). If you leave the highway and park in a 'deserted' field, you will almost certainly be trespassing on private property, which is looked on with severe mistrust, especially in the southwest. Again, you should plan on camping at state or national parks if possible, or if money is that tight, check at the many truck service plazas on your way. They will often allow you to sleep in their parking lots, but note that it is customary in such cases to buy something, a meal or a shower say, as a courtesy in return.

AZBuck

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Originally Posted by glc

If you want to sleep in the car, do so at a truckstop. Make sure you buy something at the truckstop - such as breakfast, gas, or a shower.

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To find which truck stops / travel plazas welcome recreational vehicles, and hence allow you to sleep in your car on their turf, check out this valuable resource. It is a great investment. The pocket version does not give the information you will be looking for.

Lifey who spent many nights at truck plazas

So the only places to camp out are campsites and truckstops, I had hoped we'd be able to escape "civilization" for a bit. But I guess all the land between the coasts are "claimed" by someone...hehe

from the information given it seems, I either need more time or should wait till spring/summer.

I'll come up with some alternate routes, maybe stick to a smaller region or possibly take a train across first. We do want to enjoy an area not just whizz past it. Will get back to this thread when I've put more thought into this!

Thank you very much for all the advise! (I think I would've gotten myself in trouble otherwise haha)

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Originally Posted by wetworx

Thank you very much for all the advise! (I think I would've gotten myself in trouble otherwise haha)

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Guess that is what this site is all about..... keeping you safe on the road.

...and out of jail for trespassing ;-)

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Originally Posted by wetworx

So the only places to camp out are campsites and truckstops, I had hoped we'd be able to escape "civilization" for a bit. But I guess all the land between the coasts are "claimed" by someone...hehe

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Technically, that's true but there are still areas where you can pull of the road and camp, subject to weather and fire restrictions. Most of these places are in the western states and are located in USFS forest and BLM public land. But still need to be aware of where you are!

Mark

If you are looking to camp in an area where there's a National Forest, and if that forest offers 'distributed camping', and if you check in at a Ranger station to see where such camping is allowed in that particular forest, and if you have or can get a good forest road map of the forest, and if you have enough time to get set up before dark, then it is possible to do the kind of camping that you're looking for. But yes, it does take some preplanning to find the available Federal lands which you own.

AZBuck

I may have come across a viable trip. How about...

take a flight / train from NYC to Denver, Co. and from there rent a car.
If there is time, stop at Boulder...Otherwise drive through the Rockies via Vail Pass to Salt Lake City, UT...if that route is closed, go north to Cheyenne and take I80 to Salt Lake City.

Camp at Bryce Canyon before continuing to California and up to Seattle.

I would still like to do all this in 10 days, do you think driving to LA is possible? or should we just head directly to SF? Besides spending time in Utah, we do want to stay over both SF and Napa for a night each.

Are there any problems with this route? insurmountable obstacles or hazards?
Thank you again!

btw, my appreciation for clarifying the rules regarding camping. I was never too sure before. I'm checking recreation.gov to see what sites are available, but I'll do some more research on 'distributed camping'.

If you do that I'd take I-70 west out of Denver to US-89 to get to Bryce. I-70 very seldom closes.

Discussed it over and settled on NYC (fly) > Denver > Utah > San Francisco > Napa (she likes her wine) > Seattle...in 10 days.

an overnight in SF and Napa, and a day to drive to Seattle, leaves about 4-5 days to drive through the Rockies and hike some of Utah (we'll probably skip major cities). According to www.cotrip.org, current road conditions are good.

In Utah, we'd like to see Bryce Canyon NP, Zion NP and the Bonneville Salt Flats...but I understand that last one is farther north, could we tackle that on the way to San Francisco you think?
This is really a whirlwind tour of Utah (funny how things changed), to get a better idea for a more focused and lengthier trip much further in the future. We would love to make time for Paria Canyon...all we have to go by are photos, so we're open to recommendations by those who've been.

Any other suggestions? and is it pretty much an empty drive through Nevada?

To get to Bonneville from Zion or Bryce, you pretty much have to go back to SLC on I-15 to pick up I-80. It's about 6 hours from Bryce and 7 hours from Zion. From there to SF is just over 600 miles - one long day's drive (10 to 12 hours), and yes, Nevada is pretty desolate.

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Originally Posted by glc

To get to Bonneville from Zion or Bryce, you pretty much have to go back to SLC on I-15 to pick up I-80. It's about 6 hours from Bryce and 7 hours from Zion. From there to SF is just over 600 miles - one long day's drive (10 to 12 hours), and yes, Nevada is pretty desolate.

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Thank you for that, well we just bought our tickets and reserved our car. Now I'll have to put together a list of main and alternate routes, gather my maps as well as look into permits and campgrounds.

I'll post more when i'm further along ;-)

So this is it...

We arrive in Denver 12/2...take I-70 west into Utah...a scenic drive through the Rockies/Vail Pass into Utah...

at which point we'll either take the US-80 South to SR-9 West to Zion
or
SR-24 to SR-62 to SR-22 into Bryce Canyon (heavy snow now?)
(would it be best to break off I-70 at exit 48 to SR-24 or exit 91 then follow SR-72 to SR-24 or exit 149 to SR-24? which is more scenic?)

hike around Moab, Arches, Zion, Bryce for a few days...

Then take I-15 north toward Salt Lake City, connect to I-80 West and drive to the Bonneville Salt Flats / Speedway (open in december?).

I was planning to follow I-80 west to San Francisco (w/ an overnight stay in Napa), but are there any interesting alternate routes in the same direction that we can take instead?

After a couple days in SF, we drive up along SR-1 to US-101, stopping at the Redwood National Park before continuing through Oregon and ending in Seattle by 12/23.

So what do you all think?

Okay.......

1. From I-70 to Zion, US-89 to UT-9 is the best way as long as the tunnel in Zion is open. If it's not, then you will pretty much have to take I-15. Note that this route will take you near Bryce.

2. Weather permitting, the BEST option is take UT-24 off of I-70 past Capitol Reef (worth a short visit) to UT-12 to Bryce. UT-12 is one of the most scenic highways anywhere, but I stress - weather permitting. Then you can take US-89 to Zion. However, you would pretty much be committed to the tunnel and there aren't any really good ways to get over to I-15 from there that wouldn't involve mountain highways (UT-14, UT-20 to a lesser extent) or a substantial detour (go all the way back to I-70 or all the way down to AZ and go through the reservation).

If you have plenty of time, you could take the Loneliest Road - US-50. From Bonneville, take Alt-93 and US-93 to Ely to pick it up. If you stay on US-50, that will take you through Carson City and Lake Tahoe. It will rejoin I-80 in Sacramento.

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Originally Posted by glc

Okay.......

1. From I-70 to Zion, US-89 to UT-9 is the best way as long as the tunnel in Zion is open. If it's not, then you will pretty much have to take I-15. Note that this route will take you near Bryce.

2. Weather permitting, the BEST option is take UT-24 off of I-70 past Capitol Reef (worth a short visit) to UT-12 to Bryce. UT-12 is one of the most scenic highways anywhere, but I stress - weather permitting. Then you can take US-89 to Zion. However, you would pretty much be committed to the tunnel and there aren't any really good ways to get over to I-15 from there that wouldn't involve mountain highways (UT-14, UT-20 to a lesser extent) or a substantial detour (go all the way back to I-70 or all the way down to AZ and go through the reservation).

If you have plenty of time, you could take the Loneliest Road - US-50. From Bonneville, take Alt-93 and US-93 to Ely to pick it up. If you stay on US-50, that will take you through Carson City and Lake Tahoe. It will rejoin I-80 in Sacramento.

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Oh wow, Thank You glc!...I think we'll take your suggestion on UT-12 and I-50 (though how much more time is that over I-80?)

So far cotrip.org says most of the roads are dry, but then a lot can change in 3 weeks. I just came across Trail Ridge Rd, we might make a detour for that, but there is no information on it's condition at this time.

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Originally Posted by wetworx

I just came across Trail Ridge Rd, we might make a detour for that, but there is no information on it's condition at this time.

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Check the site for Rocky Mountains National Park, but it will be a miracle if it is open in a few weeks, seeing it was closed on and off back in September. At that altitude, it probably gets snow before any other road.

A fantastic drive though!

Lifey who finally drove it on her fifth attempt

haha...thanks for the tip lifey...

speaking of snow, I just heard that the drive up from Cali to Seattle is unmanageable without chains on my tyres.

Should I expect that leg of my trip to take a couple days versus the half-day I planned.

Hi wetworx,

Whatever will be will be but I wouldn't expect to get from Cali to Seattle in half a day whatever the weather. If the Interstate required chains to make it manageable then no one should be on the road accept the crews who are clearing it. If it's that bad elsewhere you either need to wait it out or head to the Interstate.

Trail Ridge road is great, but as Lifey said probably not an option. If weather permitted and you wanted a scenic detour off of 1 70 Loveland pass is spectacular as it crosses the Continental divide and rejoins I 70 at Dillon. It's an all year round route but will close under extreme conditions and if open could still be treacherous. At Grand junction you could also detour to the Colorado NM and drive around the Rim road, spectacular views !

While in the Moab area and if time permits, I would recommend driving to Grand view point in the "Islands of the sky" section of Canyonlands and walk the Trail to the end which isn't to far. Great views all the way around you of the rock formations and canyons below. Other points of interest on that section with quick stops are Mesa Arch and Shafer trial viewpoints.

I'm a little concerned that you think that California to Seattle is a half day drive - unless by half day you mean literally half of the entire day or 12 hours. Its 500 miles from the California/Oregon border to Seattle, which is a solid 9 hour trip - a full day of travel with minimal stops in good conditions.

If you are starting from Redding, you're looking at a 10-12 hour trip, a very long day on the road, and if your starting point is Sacramento, you're looking at more than 750 miles, which pushes you up into a fairly unmanagable distance for one day requiring a good 14 hours on the road.

And again, that assumes clear dry conditions and you are taking I-5. If you start hitting a snowstorm at elevation you're travel times will increase signficantly, and if you are talking about taking US-101 up the coast basically double the time estimates I provided.

Also, since you've listed this trip as a half day drive, I'd also be taking another look at other legs of driving you are considering, as I suspect you may be severely underestimating those distances too. Which could really become a snowballing problem for your overall trip.

Here is more information about the mountain passes on I-5 and traveling in winter conditions.

I too was concerned as you mentioned "a couple of days" in the same sentence as a half day, and you wouldn't drive 48 hours without rest, so I took it as a half day on the road meaning 5 or 6 hours or so.

For clarity and to get the best advice I would post your updated route and an idea of your timeline so that you can get the best advice. At the moment your trip is going to be in the region of 2,700 miles or more by the time you have detoured into parks etc. It can be done but you will be driving 5 hours a day just to cover the ground, and going into a National parks or a City will eat up valuable time on top of that before you can even get out of the car.

Once again this is without any weather disruption.

Trail Ridge Road is already closed for the season. If The chain controls are in effect on I-5 between CA and Seattle, they would be for the Siskiyou Pass area. You have 2 choices - wait it out or take US-101 along the coast. Either way is going to delay you considerably.

Thank you for all your concern, I would like to be prepared for this trip as much as I reasonably can.

I understand this schedule will have to be flexible, essentially it's CO (drive thru) > UT > Napa > SF > Redwoods > Seattle...so if we need to drop a destination in loo of the schedule we will.

There are also two drivers, if that matters.


12/12 arrive DEN 9:30am, let's say on the road by 11am (rental car)
get onto I-70 West through the Rockies/Vail Pass (may take a detour to Loveland Pass)

I-70 > SR-24 > SR-12 > Bryce (by evening)
I think we'll camp at Bryce, but I need to call to check whether the time of arrival will be an issue. If so, any suggestions?

[alternate route, Den > I-70 > US-89]
[alternate alternate route, Den > I-25 > I-80 > I-15 / US-89, 2 days]
[alternate camp, US-89 > SR-9 > Zion]

12/13 - 12/16, try to see a few of the following : Zion, Bryce Canyon, Coyotte Buttes, Canyonlands...I realize each of these will be a day or two of activity, but how much time will it take to drive to each relative to Bryce Canyon?

12/17 depart camp, early morning
I-15 North > I-80 West > Bonneville Salt Flats, by afternoon.
after which drive US-93 South > US-50 West > I-80

[stop not determined yet...either campground, motel or truckstop]

12/18 arrive Napa at night (in time for dinner?), stay overnight

12/19 depart Napa in the early morning, arrive in SF by noon

12/22 morning depart SF, via SR-1 > US-101. Arrive Redwood National Park by afternoon.

[stop not determined yet...either campground, motel or truckstop]

12/23 early morning continue US-101 to Seattle, arrive at night to drop off rental car (maybe able to push it to the morning of 12/24)


Please let me know, what works and what doesn't. Thank you all again.

Well, you've got a few things that you'll really need to reconsider.

That first step is a doozy - as in not a feasable plan. You really need to rethink your first day.

Denver to Bryce is almost 600 miles. That's at least a 10 hour day on the road, if you don't take any extra detours or significant stops, and don't take the detour you're looking at. So, even in the best case planning, you're not going to get there until 9pm - about 4 hours after dark at this time of year. Going via UT-24 will likely push your arrival to near midnight. Also note that Bryce is up at about 7,000 feet of elevation, and it will likely be very cold at night. You're going to need serious winter gear for camping here.

I'm also under the assumption that you'll be coming in after an overnight international flight? Trying to do that much driving after that kind of flying is not a smart idea. Its also probably very optimistic to assume that you'll be on the road by 11, once you deal with customs, and car rental.

I any case, I would strongly suggest you dramatically reduce your plans for the first day. Moab would be about as far as I would even consider traveling (even that will be a good 6 hours and is probably pushing things), but that would make more sense if you are thinking of visiting canyonlands anyway.

Your coastal plans are also simply not feasable. SF to Redwoods via the coast is again a very full day on the road and unless you leave at dawn, you likely won't arrive there until after dark. Redwoods to Seattle, even if you cut over to I-5 from Crescent City to Grants Pass and weather is good will likely be another 12 hour drive. That will have left zero time to spend any time in the redwoods. Going from the Redwoods to Seattle in one day via the coast is simply not physically possible.

actually we're both flying in from NY haha
and I have some experience camping in the winter at altitude (yes it is very cold even with serious camping gear hehe)

but you're absolutely correct about that first leg, it would make more sense that Moab is as far as we can get that first night. I'll look for overnight lodging there with plans to setup camp the following morning.

Can anyone tell me how long it would take to drive from Bryce to the Coyotte Buttes in AZ?

as for SF > Seattle, I'll have to think about the scheduling of this and discuss it with my gf.

Oh and is that middle section, Bryce > Bonneville Salt Flats > Napa seem doable in the time given?

my gratitude for the reply ;-)

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Can anyone tell me how long it would take to drive from Bryce to the Coyotte Buttes in AZ?

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I have not been there but if memory serves me correct I think it's about 6 hours by the rough Johnson canyon rd and slightly less going via Kanab, not something I would recommend this trip given your schedule. I still think your under estimating the time it will take just to get an overview of the places you are wanting to visit.

How I see it is,

If you arrive in Moab on the 13th you won't have any daylight hours to sight see. It will take you most of the 14th to drive through Arches NP and Islands in the sky of Canyonlands, it will be a full day if you get out of the car to take short walks to the viewpoints/Arches, possibly start heading towards Bryce. The 15th continue to Bryce and stay the night. The 16th will give you time to see some of Zion and then you can get to Bonneville Salt flats 17th and Napa on the 18th.

To be perfectly honest I would head to the Redwoods from Salt lake and then to Napa and fly out from San Fran and make the whole trip more relaxed with a cushion for any weather disruption, but hey that's me, it's your trip and I wish you well with it.

BTW the Arches campground is in a great spot at the far end of the canyon.

I just spoke with my gf to prioritized destinations and (I hope) worked out a more viable schedule.

I'm sorry for dragging this post out for so long, I appreciate all your patience.

12/12 noon leave Denver, arrive at night in Arches NP (camp)
(12/13 - 12/16, Arches + Zion)
12/17 noon leave Zion > arrive at night in Bonneville Salt Flats (stay overnight)
12/18 noon leave Bonneville Salt Flats > arrive at night in Napa (stay overnight)
12/19 noon leave Napa > arrive in SF by dinner
12/21 afternoon leave SF > arrive at night in Redwood NP (stay overnight)
12/22 noon leave Redwood > Seattle
[12/23 + 12/24 (am) is buffer]


btw, I noticed that Cootrip.org lists both Vail Pass and Loveland Pass as having "Icy Spots", what alternatives do we have that are more direct than driving along I-80 (so we don't lose a day)?

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I'm sorry for dragging this post out for so long, I appreciate all your patience.

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You are most welcome but I can't see too much that has changed and the coastal part is still a problem.

You will need those "buffer" days.

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Originally posted by Midwest Michael Your coastal plans are also simply not feasable. SF to Redwoods via the coast is again a very full day on the road and unless you leave at dawn, you likely won't arrive there until after dark. Redwoods to Seattle, even if you cut over to I-5 from Crescent City to Grants Pass and weather is good will likely be another 12 hour drive. That will have left zero time to spend any time in the redwoods. Going from the Redwoods to Seattle in one day via the coast is simply not physically possible.

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It's a 10 hour drive from the Salt flats to Napa so you might want to leave a little earler.

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btw, I noticed that Cootrip.org lists both Vail Pass and Loveland Pass as having "Icy Spots", what alternatives do we have that are more direct than driving along I-80 (so we don't lose a day)?

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Sorry I don't understand ? I 70 from Denver to Moab is your most direct route and I would forget going over Loveland pass with the time you have, stick to the Interstate.

What you want to achieve is doable in the time you have weather permitting, but do you want to be setting up camp in sub zero temps in the dark ? Only you can decide what's best for you.

Edit I now see you are leaving SF 1/2 a day earlier but you will need the 23rd to achieve what you have laid out if you wish to see anything of the Redwoods, and wouldn't consider it a "buffer day", more a "must have"

I see your concern, if necessary our buffer can extend to the 25th, but hopefully that won't come to pass.

we'll be monitoring the weather and our pace, with the intention of skipping parts if it appears we might fall behind.

concerning the alternate route to Utah, i noticed that the Vail Pass section of I-70 is currently 'Iced', so I was wondering that in the event I-70 is closed what other options are there besides I-80?

We would like to arrive at our destinations by night, and then enjoy the locations from dawn the following morning. I've gotten pretty proficient at putting my tent up in the cold (but will be practicing in the nights leading up to the trip), and we'll have a car, coleman blackcat and firewood to back us up if necessary. It's always best to setup before dark, but in this situation I feel we have some leeway.

man, I kinda feel bad that the subject of this thread still references a x-country drive..I'm surprised how much plans have changed.

Simply put, I-70 is the best, most well maintained route across the Rockies in Colorado. If conditions are so bad that they are forced to close I-70, it means that things have got so bad that world class plow crews can not keep up with the weather. If that is the case, trying to find another route across the Rockies would be a very foolish move, as there is no way that any other route will be in a safe passable condition.

Yes, you could try to go around by going up to I-80, but there is a good chance that Wyoming would also be seeing the same weather system. In any case, if that is what you run into, you're going to have to make some pretty major cuts to your plans either because you will wait out the storm in Denver, or because you'll be adding a whole lot of miles to go up into Wyoming.

I still think you are grossly underestimating the time it will take to travel up the California coast. If you don't leave SF until afternoon, you won't get anywhere near the Redwoods until hours upon hours after dark (quite possibly after midnight), completely missing out on the great scenery that is the Pacific Coast Highway.

In general, there's nothing wrong with "going" a little past dark, but you've got several legs where you're not going to get to your destination until very late at night, and thus, you're not going to have much time for sleep if your plan is to "get up at dawn."

Wow, that's quite a commendation!

Something will likely give, but we'll let the weather in the coming weeks as well as our pace determine that. Hopefully things will go smoothly and what we might miss this trip we'll come back for again in the future.

Great forum btw ;-)

I hope you will pop by and tell us all about your experience on the road when you are done.

Have a great trip !