Colorado loop including 4 corner states

Well it's a little over 6 weeks before we embark on our next RV adventure so I thought I would put our itinerary out there and see what you think.

We fly into Denver on Sept 27th and pick up the RV in Westminster the following morning and then we are off !

In bold is booked.

Mon 28th] We head West towards Nederland to pick up the Peak to Peak highway [72] North and then to Estes park, making a pit stop at Lily lake on route. To get to Nederland it's a toss of the coin whether to go via 'Coal creek canyon drive' [72 West] or Boulder canyon drive [119] so if anyone has a suggestion let me know. I am not worried about quickest but the most scenic. We are staying at Morraine park campground.

Tues 29th] A day along the bear lake corridor hiking etc and evening in Estes park and stay the night.

Weds 30th] Early[ish] start over the Trial ridge road, crossing the continental divide to Grand lake for lunch and a wander around and then we head towards Leadville/Twin lakes but not before a little detour over Loveland pass and the C.D once more.

Thurs 1st Oct Another work out in a 30ft RV as we plan to head over Independence pass through Aspen to Glenwood springs. We then head towards Fruita and the James M. Robb Colorado river state park for the night. [Thanks to AZBucks list off places just off Interstate.] On route we hope to do a drive around the Colorado NM while trying not to lose the roof of the RV through the tunnels !

Fri 2nd] We are staying at Arches NP campground and exploring the park and maybe head into Moab for the evening. From Fruita we will head for Cisco down the 128 passing Fisher towers and Castle valley.

Sat 3rd] A little time in the park before heading "across the road" to Canyonlands and hoping to have enough time for a quick visit to Dead horse point. From then we head South on 191 towards Bluff, stopping at Wilson Arch on route. We had hoped to include Canyon De Chelley and it's still possible but we need to be close to Mesa Verde for the morning so time will tell.

Sun 4th] A short drive to Mesa Verde and enjoy a couple of tours and stay in the park for the night.

Mon 5th] Start out heading up the San Juan skyway to Telluride and then continue towards Black canyon and Currecanti recreation area and stay in this area for the night.

Tues 6th] This morning is the first [and only] bit of back tracking as we head back to Ridgeway and continue South on the "Million dollar highway"[ part of the San Juan skyway] and to Pagosa springs.

Weds 7th Tonight we stay at the Great sand dunes NP but to get there we are planning to "dip" into New Mexico crossing the gorge bridge into Taos [Pueblo] and if time permits driving a large part of the "Enchanted circle" past Angel fire, [home to a Viet war memorial] Eagle Nest, Red river to Questa and North to Fort Garland and the Dunes.

Thurs 8th] Today we head for Manitou springs and Garden of the gods and maybe [hopefully] cave of the winds. In the evening a trip to Seven falls would be great but might be too much. A lot will depend on the route we take, I like 2 lanes and like to travel via Salida but Interstate looks tempting to give us more time at M springs.

Fri 9th] Start out with Pikes peak and then head to Golden for "the last supper," through the Pike National forest if time permits. I can't find a definitive answer if RV's are allowed to drive up Pikes peak or not,[I know, I know !] the official website doesn't note any restrictions on size. I think the girls are veering towards the cog railway but I would love to join the likes of Arri Vatanen and co and drive up it. Does anyone know if there are restrictions ? Have you seen a large RV up the top?
Am I mad ? [I already know that one !!]

Sat 10th Get packed up, empty the RV tanks, go to the car wash to clean the RV and be back in Westminster for 12 noon to drop the RV off. To the airport for a 4.55 pm flight. We arrive in London Sun at 11.15am pretty exhausted no doubt.

Although there are not a lot of miles involved I know a lot of them are going to be extremely slow and we will have some long days to enable us to see things along the way, even if we have to juggle a little.

I would appreciate any comments/suggestions, good or bad !

Thanks for looking !

......Glenwood Springs, CO for an end-of-the-day stop. Your route that day and continuation the next seems to preclude Colorado Springs as the overnight that day.

That being correct, by all means have a soak at the Glenwood Hot Springs. It's one of my favorite places in CO.

It looks like a great RoadTrip! Travel safe and enjoy.

Foy

Hi Foy,

Just to clarify [I confuse myself sometimes !] we will be heading to Colorado springs for a look around and lunch [maybe the caverns] and then continuing on to Fruita for the night. If by any chance Independence pass is closed due to early snow fall then quite possibly we will head to Glenwood springs instead of stopping in Leadville/Twin lakes the night before, in which case a nice soak in the hot tub will be on the agenda. Thanks.

Dave,

I'm still puzzled. I see you starting the day in the Leadville area, thence to Independence Pass and Aspen, thence BACK over the pass and through the mountains to the City of Colorado Springs, thence BACK through all of the mountains to Fruita?

Are you perhaps referring to a spring called Colorado spring, somewhere between the cities of Aspen and Glenwood Springs, or are you actually referring to the city of Colorado Springs? In the case of the former, the routing makes much sense, while in the case of the latter, it seems to be much zig-zagging.

Foy

Gee, I am a "numpty", and you were correct the first time, I mean Glenwood springs !!

Quote:

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.Glenwood Springs, CO for an end-of-the-day stop.

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It didn't even register that I had referred to "Glenwood" as "Colorado", I just thought you believed we were staying here the night and not at Fruita, hence the reason for recommending the hot springs.

Oh boy, I could cause confusion in an empty room today, Lol!

[I have now edited the itinerary, thanks Foy.

Yah, it seemed like you must have meant Glenwood Springs.

If you're not familiar with the town or the facilities, be aware of the fact that the natural hot spring waters are piped into a gigantic complex of outdoor swimming pools. I think some envision a natural rock-walled sylvan setting and are taken aback at the huge outdoor pool facility.

I spent a week there at the hotel with my then 12 year-old son on a ski trip. We used the Springs Hotel as a base to ski the Aspen/Snowmass group of ski resorts and nearby Sunlight ski mountain, none more than about 45 minutes drive away. Unlimited use of the hot pools was included in the quite reasonable room rates, and there were quite a number of restaurants and bars within a short walk across the footbridge crossing the Colorado River and I-70. For those reasons, I always recommend a stopover at Glenwood Springs to RoadTrippers planning trips to the vicinity.

Enjoy, Dave!

Foy

Nederland, home to one of the wierder festivals in the US; Frozen Dead Guy Days. Here's an explanation of the origins.

Not far from the town hall:
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/BearInNederland.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

is a booth run by the Chamber of Commerce; if you're lucky it will be open and you can pick up a t-shirt or other bit of "Granpa Bredo" memorabilia. You'll be the only person on your street with some.

Bear lake is a great short, easy hike:
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/BearLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Let me know if you want some suggestions for longer day hikes in RMNP.

Cheers Don, I will keep an eye out for a bony guy called Granpa Bredo !

Quote:

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Let me know if you want some suggestions for longer day hikes in RMNP.

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I was thinking of getting to the Bear lake parking lot reasonably early as I have heard it can fill quickly [and it's not so easy "squeezing" a 30ft RV into a tight area] but I am not sure if this will be the case at the end of Sept, any thoughts ?

If you have some tips on trials that'd be great. We don't want anything to strenuous but don't mind walking for 4 or 5 hours in one loop or a 2-3 hour trip, back to the RV for lunch , relocate and then start another for the same amount of time. I was thinking along the lines of Bear Lake, Alberta falls, Glacier falls and round to Nymph lake and possibly Emerald lake. I would also like to see Sprague and Berstadt lake but any advise you can give me on how to best spend a full day here and get the best of the scenery would be appreciated.
We are staying in Morraine park campground and I have even considered an all day hike past cub lake, Berstatdt to Bear lake and leave the RV where it is but I don't think the shuttle runs at that time of year to take us back, so it would be a full loop, crazy right ?

[sorry to go on, trying to give as much info as I can.]

Dave,
I've had the pleasure of hiking and backpacking in RMNP on two trips, each "way back in the day". The first was my honeymoon in late September 1978 and the second was a vacation trip in July 2 years later.

I'd not researched elevation changes in the planned backpack routes on the first trip, nor did I attempt to do so prior to setting forth from the trailhead. Big mistake. Between it being my bride's first backpacking walk, having started the morning after a 1,700 mile 2 day drive from Charlottesville, VA (in a 1977 Honda Civic, no less), and a complete absence of acclimation to the elevation, we pretty much blew a gasket for a day and a half. We struggled to the first campsite and stayed there an extra day.

As we left the area on the honeymoon trip, we purchased a pocket trail guide. Trail descriptions, maps, topo info (profiles of the trails, as I recall) and we used that guidebook to plan our return in 1980. That trip worked out much, much better. We hiked or backpacked to Odessa Lake, Flattop Mtn, and to some alpine lake in the Wild Basin area (name escapes me).

By all means, the weatherproof, approx 2" x 3" pocket guidebook was invaluable for planning and execution.

Have a great time!

Foy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

I was thinking of getting to the Bear lake parking lot reasonably early as I have heard it can fill quickly
...

If you have some tips on trials that'd be great. We don't want anything to strenuous but don't mind walking for 4 or 5 hours in one loop or a 2-3 hour trip, back to the RV for lunch , relocate and then start another for the same amount of time.

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Let me tell you what I did, and how long it took; that should help you tailor your plans.

I'll detail the hikes I took in subsequent posts; this post is just for general info and to set up the hike details. Two of the hikes I took are outside your parameters, but you can shorten at least one of them, and may want to try the other anyway, as it starts from your campground. Note however that this one was the real butt-kicker of all the hikes I took.

First: some background. These hikes took place June 12-June 15 2006. Linda was in all-day quilting classes at the Stanley in Estes Park, so I had to amuse myself all alone until dinnertime. I was, at the time, 58 and in decent but not athletic shape; I had done a fair amount of mountain hiking 3-4 years earlier in training for a Mt. Whitney hike, although some of that had probably worn off.

Second: I took my time on all these hikes. It would be hard to travel slower than I did, esp given the time I spent either catching my breath or shooting photographs. I was in no hurry, having all day to complete these, so my timings should be close to a worst-case scenario.

Third: these hikes were all pre-planned using TOPO!. I did this so I could determine if they were even feasible, I kept the printouts so I have distance and elevation gain data from that source. I also carried my Garmin GPS unit, and I recorded "moving" and "stopped" time from it. Lastly, I happened to record my actual start and stop time on the TOPO! printout (carried with me on the hike), so I can tell you how long each hike actually took based on both my watch and the Garmin. If you're curious as to particular segment timings, I can probably pull that from the meta-data in my photos; let me know.

Fourth: Foy is dead right on elevation and elevation gain. Elevation gain/loss counts for as large as factor as distance in assessing time/effort... maybe larger. Also; you're at altitude. Your body will not have had much time to get used to 9,000' plus. Take it easy early on until you see how you're doing. I had the benefit of sneeking up on the elevation, by spending previous nights on the drive there (Reno, SLC, Steamboat Springs). Expect to get winded earlier than you would normally; even after your body adjusts in a day or two. Wear a hat with a big brim and use sunblock; the sun has a lot less atmosphere to filter it.

Fifth: carry water. I hauled 3 liters/quarts water for me alone: also lunch and snacks. And don't just carry them, consume them! Take some water every so often, and a snack every hour or two. Your body will be much happier.

Sixth: I got to the Bear Lake parking lot not long after 7am. Not because I'm an early riser, but because photographers like early morning/late afternoon sun. That plus lakes tend to be placid before the winds kick up (see the reflections in the photo above). At 7am I had my pick of the entire parking lot. When I returned that afternoon, the lot was pretty full, but I don't recall if it was completely full.

Seventh: Wildlife. Location and time. Early and late in the day is usually best. I ran into a herd of elk in the meadow the morning of my Cub Lake/Fern Lake hike. The only moose I saw was mid-day, on the road into the park. For these guys you need to be on the west side of the park, in the Colorado drainage. Marmots and elk on Trail Ridge Road; all day it seems. Never spotted a goat (except for some old goats in the lobby of the Stanley, but that's another story), so you're on your own there.

More posts to follow later today...

TOPO! data: 6.68 miles, Elevation gain/loss 1710' (this is an approximate sum of all the ups and downs; difference between high point and low point is more like 1000')
GPS data: 7.8 miles, time moving 3:44, time stopped 3:39
Watch data: started hike 7:40, returned 15:00

From Bear Lake parking lot, hike to and around Bear Lake in a counter-clockwise direction (see photo above). Leave Bear Lake on trail to

Nymph Lake.
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPNymphLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Continue on to

Dream Lake (there'll be a trail junction here).
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPDreamLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Continue on right side of lake to

Emerald Lake.
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPEmeraldLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Return to Dream Lake, take trail to Lake Haiyaha junction, turn right and follow to

LakeHaiyaha. I stopped here and had my lunch. This is about the highest point on the hike, around 10,200'.
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPLakeHaiyaha.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Backtrack to trail junction, head toward Glacier Falls (but not all the way).
At trail junction, turn left to

Alberta Falls
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPAlbertaFalls.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

and eventually back to Bear Lake parking lot. Head for nearest cold beer.

This can be shortened any number of ways:

1) Make it an out-and-back by turning around at Nymph, Dream, or Emerald Lakes (if you make it as far as Lake Haiyaha you're past the halfway point so you may as well do the loop.

2) Drop one or both of the out-and-backs to Emerald and/or Haiyaha Lakes

On the other hand, this can be LENGTHENED by adding an out-and-back loop up to Glacier Falls.

My feet were ready for me to quit by the end of this hike.

I should have noted earlier that I have a pair of hiking boots and a couple of hiking poles; not required for any of these hikes but useful.

You also want to make sure you bring along something to address any "hot spots" that flair up on your feet as soon as you notice them, so you don't develop any blisters. Toss some moleskin and a knife or scissors to cut it with in your day pack.

Total number of photos taken on this hike: 89.

I want to go on this hike!

Great photos!

Mark

What great intel, and provided in such detail. Thanks, Don.

I'd have to agee that under most any circumstances, elevation gain trumps distance, and that skew probably increases with increasing ambient elevation.

My personal observations dramatizing that point relate to a backpacking trip to the Wind River Range in WY in August 1976. I'd spent much of the prior 3 months cutting survey line in central Virginia, and that is very similar to work. I ran regularly and extensively for most of the preceding 3 months. In short, I'd just turned 21 and was in the best condition of my life.

The Appalachian State University geology group drove a Dodge 15 passenger van straight through from Boone, NC to Dubois, WY in 46 hours (I know, I know). I recall we had 5 certified drivers among the 9 travelers (State-owned vehicles required specifically permitted drivers). We arrived at Dubois early enough in the day to grab last-minute supplies/gear and to then spend WAY too much time carousing with the locals.

Our plan the next morning was to start at 7,600' and from that trailhead to then climb nearly 3,000' at which time we'd cross a several mile flat at 10,500' before dropping 1,000' or so to a group of small tarns (glacial lakes). We didn't make it, and it wasn't even close. We started late and badly overloaded. After about an hour's struggle, several guys got together to run some gear back to the van. We awaited their return and then bivouaced well short of the pass. The next day was the real grind, as we were short of water since we'd planned to reach it on night one. The skies were clear but it was cool and very windy. We became badly dehydrated. After a brutal day's "stagger", we reached the lakes and lazed about drinking water and enjoying the scenery.

Despite that experience the wife and I (and I accept 100% of the blame here) failed to plan for elevation gain on our honeymoon trip to RMNP just 26 months later. We suffered and lost a day's travel time by having to stay at our first site for 2 nights rather than 1.

Oh, and on that honeymoon trip we were camped in the timber close to a large alpine meadow the first night. My bride was all enthralled with the backpacking stove, supper being prepared by me, the little bit of wine we'd lugged up the trail, and the fact we were about to overnight in the backcountry, when we were suddenly hit with what sounded like amplified flute or recorder music. My bride asked me what on Earth that was, and I hadn't a clue. It was of course the bull elk's mating call, mere yards from our campsite.

As "threatened" previously, I'm going to scan and post some of those snapshots one of these days and will enjoy sharing them with the group, even though the quality pales dramatically from the skills demonstrated herein.

Foy

I, for one, am looking forward to these long-promised photos...

I've had some ill effects from unwise elevation gain as well -- but I gotta tell you, sometimes it doesn't work like that. A few years ago, I left Kathmandu, Nepal) with what seemed like classic altitude illness headed for Tengboche and since Kathmandu is relatively low for Nepal, (it's only about 4300 feet) I was a bit concerned. The weird thing is that the higher we treked the better I felt and when the rest of my mates were beginning to feel a bit peaked ~ 12000 feet, I felt better and better -- So, sometimes elevation gain's effect on people is unpredictable....

Mark

Mark/Foy: Thanks!

TOPO! data: 9.68 miles, Elevation gain/loss 2365' (difference between high point and low point about 1500')
GPS data: 10 miles, time moving 5:34, time stopped 2:43
Watch data: started hike 6:50, returned 15:20

Here's my shadow and gear at the trailhead....

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...eTrailhead.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

WAY too early! You can see my three Nalgene bottles ready to load into the blue backpack (one in either side pocket, the third hung from a carabiener on my belt). You can also if you look closely see the remains of my morning latte', Linda's Purdue emblem on the trailer hitch, and one of my hiking poles.

At the time I took this I didn't realize there was a herd of 50-some elk 100 yards away to my left.

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPElkHerd.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

This is the trailhead right by Moraine Park Campground. Trail starts south along the western edge of Moraine Meadow, then will turn right and head west. Here's a little bit of trailside view:

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPCubLakeTrail.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

A bit further on you reach:

Cub Lake
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPCubLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Continuing on the north side of the lake, you climb up a fairly steep pitch but are rewarded with a nice view of the lake as you continue on. You'll cross an rise and find yourself on a trail above the Thompson River. It will slowly work it's way down to a trail junction right down near

Thompson River
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...mpsonRiver.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

This hike heads left up to Fern Lake, the shorter version would be to turn right at this point and return to the campground. This would cut out A LOT of up and down, and shorten the entire hike by 4.4 miles. Of course you miss most of what follows.

On the trail up to Fern Lake you'll pass two waterfalls:

Fern Falls
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPFernFalls.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

and Marguerite Falls:
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...eriteFalls.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

(At this point I have to confess I MAY have these backwards...)

And finally

Fern Lake
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPFernLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Which is where I had my lunch. From here, you backtrack back to the river, then continue down the trail along the river back to the trailhead/campground. This is all mercifully downhill, but I have to admit I was really dragging the last mile or so.

Toward the end I saw this:

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPBeaverSign.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

but never saw the guy what chewed it down.

This hike was the most energetic of the four (the first hike I described was next hardest); what follows are two easier hikes that I did back-to-back, one on each side of the continental divide, separated by lunch at the visitor center at the top. Coming later today or tomorrow.

Total photos this hike: 82.

TOPO! data: na (didn't do the full hike I planned) - estimated 150 feet elevation gain/loss.
GPS data: 2.9 miles, time moving 1:17, time stopped 0:32
Watch data: started hike 7:15, returned 9:00

DO NOT DO THIS HIKE IF OLD FALL RIVER ROAD IS OPEN TO AUTO TRAFFIC!

And if OFRR IS open to auto traffic, you probably don't want to take a 30' RV up it either.

Parking at trailhead is extremely limited, so this may not be the hike for you, but for completeness' sake...

Park at the Endofvalley picknic area, head up unpaved Old Fall River Road.

You'll get some nice views both

up valley
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...dViewAhead.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

and down valley from the road.
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...adViewBack.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

And after about a mile-and-a-half:

Chasm Falls
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPChasmFalls.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

One more to go....

Or not so mighty, if you've been following along the "Where in North America" forum.

From the trailhead near the "Colorado River" picnic area, you have a number of out-and-back destinations to choose from:

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/BearAtTrailhead.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

"Bear" and I did the 4.8 out-and-back to Shipler Cabins (the extra 0.2 counts the walk to the parking lot).

Data for this portion:
Leave: 11:50
Return: 14:40
Moving: 1:51
Stopped: 0:38
Based on the TOPO! printout, it looks like about maybe a 200' elevation gain, if that.

Walk is mainly flat, through meadows and near the Colorado in spots.

At this point (Red Mountain Trail junction) you can walk across it on a little footbridge.
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/MysteryStream2.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Meadow
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...radoMeadow.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

This was a mining area, and some mining remnants still can be seen. Lulu City (didn't make it that far) is listed as "site only". Other remnants include:

Shipler Cabins
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...plerCabins.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

Mine tailings on hillsides
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPMineTailings.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

and the odd bit of mining gear abandoned by the trail
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPMiningGear.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

A couple of notes on this one:

1) This hike is along a river bottom. In June, at Shipler Cabins, I got attacked by a swarm of mosquitos. Fortunately I had some DEET in my backpack. This is the only spot in the park I ran into those blood-suckers. May not be an issue in October, but be warned!

2) After this hike I went down the road to the entrance station to browse the gift shop. On the way back there was a bunch of stopped cars, looking at

this guy
http://donandlindacasey.com/images/RMNPMoose.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

No, I'm not that close. This photo brought to you courtesy of a 300mm lens screwed into a 2X telextender.

The point here is your chance of running into a moose (not necessarily a good thing) is higher if you hike downstream past the kind of marshy areas moose (and mosquitos) love, rather than upstream like I did. This is the area of the park where moose hang out. Your call.

If this area appeals to you, you may want to try a short hike on your way out of the park.

That's all I have for RMNP (for now); have a great visit!

P.S. You realize I have 'burned' any number of "Where in..." options with this post? ;)

A big thanks to Don and Foy for your help. Adjusting to the elevation is going to be important to what we can achieve, especially as here in England we have mountains the size of your mole hills. I have been OK when we visited the Austrian Alps but I actually remember having very slight symptoms on my "first meeting" with altitude on our last trip, when we drove up Glacier point [9-10,000 ft if I recall] but was fine from then on in, which included Bryce at a similar altitude. No nausea just the lungs were working a little more than usual so I'm keeping my fingers crossed, especially as Pikes peak could be on the agenda.

Quote:

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P.S. You realize I have 'burned' any number of "Where in..." options with this post? ;)

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Thanks for the sacrifice, you are a legend !

I think the Bear lake hike you have described will be ideal for our full day in the park, it looks awesome and great photo's ! We will have to see how we feel and adjust to the altitude [the others were all fine by the way] but we are pretty resilient to "plodding along" for long periods, but I am definitely no sprinter ! On arrival just after lunch on day one, a shorter walk to acclimatise would be great and the Old fall river road looks ideal other than the parking lot [RV's are not allowed on the road] but getting set down and heading to Cub lake looks appealing depending on actual arrival time.
Is the Thompson river close by up the grade from Cub or would a walk just to Cub lake be significantly shorter ? Off to work now so I will have another look later, thanks again it's been a great help !

Your two considerations for Old Fall Creek Road are:

1) Is it open to auto traffic? It hadn't opened for the season when I hiked it, and it may be closed by the time you get there. If it is open, you probably DO NOT want to be hiking on it... too dangerous; the possibility of someone looking at the scenery rather than pedestrians on a narrow dirt road is the major issue.

2) Parking at trailhead is limited; you may want to ask a ranger what they think before heading that way.

As for Cub Creek/Thompson River "short" options:

1) Hike to Cub Lake out-and-back. About 4 miles round trip (+/-), maybe 500' up/down. (I took a closer look at the topo map, there is a bit of a slope leading to Cub Lake, so the last part of this hike is where most of the elevation gain comes from.)

2) Hike up Thompson River to junction with Cub Creek/Lake trail out-and-back. Also about 4 miles round trip, maybe 250' up/down.

3) Do the loop (combine TR out, CL back or vice-versa). Something like 5 miles, but greater elevation gain (due to hiking over the saddle between the Thompson River and Cub Lake trails); figure around 700'.

Observations: #2 is the easiest, #1 is the most scenic.

You could start with either, then decide if you wanted to complete the loop or do an out-and-back at the end point of either. Figure a mile between the two end points, and an elevation difference of 450' (mostly uphill from Thompson River, mostly downhill after getting over the saddle at Cub Lake). If you start with Cub Lake, most of the hard work is over by the time you get to the Lake. You would still have the saddle to get over and the extra mile if you decided to make a loop of it.

Lastly, if you start with the Thompson River portion, you could (instead of doing a loop) continue on a bit more to reach Fern Falls. Figure maybe another mile but also another 400-500'. This is based on what my topo map shows, my recollection was it was a longer haul than that. If the map is right, this makes an out-and-back 6 miles and 700'; the most intense of the options listed here. My vote would be to turn left and head back via Cub Lake if you feel up to it/have time at that point.

Here's shot looking back at Cub Lake from the saddle to give you a visual:

http://donandlindacasey.com/images/R...ingCubLake.jpg
Photo: Don Casey

legend?

And what a great visual that is !! Thanks for your time, I think we will settle in with the RV and check on time and then decide on one of the above, but I really would like to complete option 3 round trip.

Quote:

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legend?

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Yeah, I can see how that could be confusing. I can actually hear Mark S in the background saying "darn English language" Lol !

Over this side of the water if someone helps you out and goes that "extra mile" to do so it is quite common [in a wierd kinda slang English way ;-) ] to say "Thanks you're a legend" which means "that's brilliant," "top man" and "I won't forget it" [legendary]

Darn, reading that back I gotta agree with Mark ! Ha Ha.

Thanks again Don.

The Shipler cabin shown below caved in during the winter of 1964-65. I worked as a trail guide for Johnny Holzworth on the Neversummer Ranch back in the early 60's and sometimes took shelter from summer hail in that cabin.