L.A. to Graceland/Teaching long distance driving

This forum is a great font of information and I’m really enjoying looking around.

My 18 year old niece and a friend are taking a pre-college road trip from L.A to Graceland for 10 days in late July. I’m going along as the car and the credit card. The trip out is the girls’ dream, so they are doing the trip planning for that part. Their route is L.A., Flagstaff, Albuquerque, Amarillo, Oklahoma City, Little Rock (2 nights at friends’), Memphis, Nashville (2 nights) and St. Louis (also with friends). From St. Louis, they’ll fly home and I’ll drive back (my trip home will be another thread eventually).

How does the itinerary look? Any interesting small towns for us to stay in overnight instead of these bigger cities? We plan to find motels along the way, but I’m leaning towards having reservations in advance for Memphis and Nashville. Advice on that would be appreciated.

Our plan is to try to get on the road early most days – with me taking the morning drive so they can catch some more teenaged shut eye if they want. They’ll do as much of the rest of the driving as possible, although one of the girls will be learning to freeway drive as we go. I saw the teenage road trip thread here, and I’d appreciate any other tips on teaching freeway/long-distance driving or suggestions on stretches of road that will be less crowded for her to start on. My plan is to start her for short distances (half an hour-ish) and see how it goes. I think this is the part of the trip I’m most worried about!

Can’t wait to hear your ideas . . .

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

You've got a very easy pace that shouldn't be a problem at all. Other than your first day to Flagstaff, you shouldn't really have to even be on the road for more than about 5 hours on any given day. There are a lot of attractions that you could do a short detour away, for example, you could visit the Grand Canyon and even Monument Valley if you wanted to. You'd probably have to rework things a bit, but you certainly could cover more ground on if you aren't tied to staying in those specific cities.

As far as teaching highway driving, I suppose this trip will be a lot easier than trying to learn on the Freeways of LA! Really though, Freeway driving is a lot easier than in town driving, so teaching shouldn't be too difficult. Since I-40 is a major cross country route, you're never really going to be alone on the road, but there are lots of stretches where you shouldn't have any worries about having lots of traffic around you. As soon as you are east of Barstow, you could hand over the keys and get started with the trek across the desert.

Thanks!

"You've got a very easy pace"

That was the girls' goal, so we can stop and see all the giant balls of string and other weird stuff along the way. I actually would move a bit faster, but it's their choice and we can change things up once we're on the road. We want to drive a bit of old Route 66 and are still trying to figure out which bit would be best. My thought was to skip the Grand Canyon this trip - it's not going anywhere and we can go to less visited national parks instead.

"As far as teaching highway driving, I suppose this trip will be a lot easier than trying to learn on the Freeways of LA!"

Yup, pretty much!!! She can handle street driving in LA which is pretty daunting itself, but she's been avoiding the freeways here. Barstow's a good idea - I think they'll be awake by then.

Re: Route 66 - here's my suggestion, and it would probably involve 2 days to get to Flagstaff comfortably, with you doing the hardcore mountain driving.

Stay on the 10 out to Palm Springs. Take 62 to 29 Palms, then Amboy Rd to Amboy. You can pick up old 66 there for a stretch, it will merge you back into 40 west of Needles. Cross the river and get off at Topock, and take the old road up into Oatman. From there, follow old 66 over Sitgreaves Pass to Kingman. This would be a good place to spend the night. From there, take old 66 to Seligman and get back on 40. Now, stopping in Flagstaff would be a very short day, you could make Gallup or ABQ that day, or do some sightseeing - maybe Monument Valley, spending the night in Kayenta or Blanding UT. You could also spend the night at Goulding's right in Monument Valley or in Mexican Hat.

I'm going to pass this idea to the girls, although I have to admit that I'm really anxious to get to the part of the world I haven't seen before, which is east of Albuquerque. I know what California desert looks like!

If you are in a hurry, you can just take 15 to 40 all the way to Kingman, and then take the long stretch of old 66 from there to Seligman. Oatman is a neat place though, I would recommend a visit if you've never been there.

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Originally Posted by ll18

I saw the teenage road trip thread here, and I’d appreciate any other tips on teaching freeway/long-distance driving or suggestions …

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Have a look through Bob Schaller’s ”70 rules of defensive driving”. You’ll find tons of good advice.

Thanks for the ideas.

I've been looking at the AAA site and it looks like there are alot of sections of I40 that have road construction "likely" or "possible". That doesn't give me much help. I found a website that linked to state road conditions websites, but promptly lost it.

How much do you all worry about road construction warnings? If there's only one main road through an area, is there really anything you can do about it but suffer through the delays?

This is just one reason why I recommend you add 20% to the driving time a mapping program gives you. The way our infrastructure is aging and falling apart makes construction inevitable everywhere.

Google can help you find state DOT websites.

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"This is just one reason why I recommend you add 20% to the driving time a mapping program gives you."

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Being from L.A., it never occurred to me to actually trust mapping program drive times. Do the mapping programs determine drive time based upon speed limit on the road? 100 miles on a 65 mph road is really different than on a 40 mph road - is that taken into account?

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Originally Posted by ll18

Do the mapping programs determine drive time based upon speed limit on the road? 100 miles on a 65 mph road is really different than on a 40 mph road - is that taken into account?

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They take into consideration type of road [possibly speed limits] but they forget about the "human factor." That's the one where we need to eat, sleep and go to the bathroom. The need to top up with Gas also appears to have been overlooked and then we get on to traffic, construction delays etc. With a cross country drive on Interstate they seem to think you can drive at the speed limit from the moment you back off your driveway to when you pull up at your destination, impossible.

As a time tested rule here at RTA it is thought that an average of 57mph in the West and 55mph in the East on main Interstate/highways can be sustained with all these factors taken into account .[other than sleep of course]

I'm having great fun researching my road trip, but I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to keep it organized. I'm searching old threads and articles here, using TripTiks (which seem most useful only if you know exactly where you want to go), AAA print maps, Jamie Jensen's book, and other random things. If there's a thread here about this already, I'm sorry - I did try to search for "research".

I probably won't have a computer with me on my trip and I have a dumb (i.e., not smart) phone. That means that I have to print out everything before I go, and it all comes from so many sources. I've been cutting and pasting tidbits into a word document, but that can't be the best way to do it. I've always liked annotating paper maps with information from other sources, but on a 4000 mile trip it's not working so well (especially since I want to note lots of places I may want to see, but won't decide about until I get into the area).

I know you all must have come up with some great systems to efficiently wrangle information from multiple sources - this is clearly not my forte.

Thanks!

It sounds a bit too me like you are actually doing too much work. It certainly is good to do your research and get ideas about what you want to do, and as you keep compiling ideas, you might want to sort them into states or region, or some other category.

However, at some point, you've just got to let your trip happen. No matter how much you research, you'll never find everything in advance - and that really is a good thing and what makes a road trip different from a prepackaged tour. Certainly, bring some highlights and ideas with you, you could even put some of your favorite ideas together on a spreadsheet, but if you've got so many thing that you want to bring that you can't keep them organized, you've probably just go too much stuff!

I understand what you mean about overplanning - I'm really not trying to know everything. The funny thing is that the way I usually like to travel is to read some stuff, go wander around, then look at the map and figure out what I discovered after the fact. I guess I'm just feeling like that method doesn't work so well when I've got so many miles to cover.

My favorite guidebooks are the access guidebooks - which show you everything in a specific neighborhood that you pull out when you're in that actual neighborhood. I'm struggling with how to make myself something equivalent when I'm learning (but not over-researching ;-) ) about different neat things from many different places. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. And spreadsheets, nope, they make me crazy.

But seriously, I think you are over-thinking this. RoadTrips are not rides at Disneyland where the outcome is virtually always known -- Do as much reading and studying as you want and then hit the road and see what comes up. There are companies that offer road trip planning services down to the teeniest details about where to stay, what to eat, what to see, etc. But that's not our philosophy here.

Mark

I have to agree with the others, sometimes there is so much to do it makes your head spin ! As well as my purchased paper maps I usually print off more detailed maps from the Internet of the places I am spending some time and do some scribblings on the back of the page and mark out things on the map that are of extra interest to me. I also can't help but print off park maps from the NP site and make notes of walks that are both scenic and fit in with my time structure but there is always a ton of info available from the visitor centres. It's the research that makes me partly familiar with the area before I go and things just fall into place on the road. I am always amazed at the number of things that you stumble across unaware of it's existence, those are the bits that make a very special road trip extra special.
While researching, any sites I find with lots of useful info get added to my favorites list so that I can access them easily when looking for further info.

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Originally Posted by ll18

The funny thing is that the way I usually like to travel is to read some stuff, go wander around, then look at the map and figure out what I discovered after the fact. I guess I'm just feeling like that method doesn't work so well when I've got so many miles to cover.

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I'm exactly the same way, One of the first things I do when I get home from a road trip is to look up where I was and what I just saw. There's no reason you can't still do that on a larger trip. If it helps, you might want to keep some notes or a journal - which of course could be its own great resource in the future!

. . . so long as I end up home in LA, not in Canada because I took that cool looking road to the right (which actually might be fun . . . )

Thanks for the sage advice everyone. It sounds like I like to plan the same way alot of you do (general familiarity, and then let things happen). Thanks for reminding me that this still works, even on the larger scale of a big road trip.

After finishing my road trip with my niece and her friend in St. Louis, they're flying home and I'm driving back, probably by myself. I'm very comfortable with going solo. I'll have 4 nights to get home, 5 if I'm feeling tired or want to explore more.

I know I want to see Arches NP and I know myself well enough that as soon as I hit the 15, all I'm going to want to do is get home. So, here's my tentative itinerary:

Day 1 - St. Louis - Someplace in Kansas. I'll probably take I-70.

Day 2 - Someplace in Kansas to Colorado Springs via I-70/US24 (Tesla's house).

Day 3 - Colorado Springs to Grand Junction via I-25/US50 (possible stop at Black Canyon of Gunnison or Salida Hot Springs).

Day 4 - Grand Junction to Arches to Wherever I'm Ready to Stop via I-70/I-15.

Day 5 - Wherever I Slept to Home via I-15, etc.

I'm considering a couple of options through Kansas. I'm curious about Greensburg, KS, because of its green rebuild after it was leveled by a tornado a couple of years ago - there's a fascinating series on the Planet Green channel about it. Greensburg is on US400 between US281 and US283. I also have thought about going through Wichita to drive by the house that my mom lived in for a short time in the 20s.

It looks like it would make most sense to take US50 across Kansas if I want to go to Greensburg and/or Wichita (ending in Pueblo instead of Colorado Springs). However, I'm not sure I want to commit to driving all that flat distance on US50, or take the extra time instead of I-70.

I could most easily skip Wichita since I've already looked up the house on Google Street View (which may sort of be cheating). I could take I-70, drop down to US400 to see Greensburg and then go back up to I-70, but I can't get a good sense from the mapping software how much drive time that would add for me.

So, I'd appreciate comments on which route to take through Kansas. Also, any recommendations for what town to stay in in Kansas my first night on the road? If anything else jumps out at you about the itinerary, please tell.

Thanks.

I've made the run through Kansas on US-400, and for a non-Interstate highway, it's really a fast road. Here is my recommendation for you to go from STL to Arches via Greensburg:

Take I-44 out of STL to the OK state line, and get on US-400 (MO Exit 1). Take that all the way through KS into CO. Shortly after entering CO, 400 ends, just stay on US-50 all the way to Grand Junction. Suggested overnights are Wichita and Pueblo.

I'm sorry if I didn't understand forum etiquette by posting a new thread for my trip from St. Louis to L.A. I did because, to me, it's a totally distinct trip from my trip to Graceland - different part of the country, different participants, different questions - and having St. Louis and L.A. in a new thread title was what made the most sense to me. I must be too literal-minded; if I see a thread with Graceland in the title, I'm not thinking that questions about Kansas are going to be involved.

Again, sorry about messing up.

On the return portion of this RoadTrip, I think I'd suggest that you stay south of I-70 through Kansas, and make your overnight stop in Wichita on the way to Pueblo. The Kansas Aviation Museum is open until 5:00 and would make a nice incentive to get there in a timely manner, or you could opt to take your time along the way instead and visit Harry Truman's home in Independence, just outside Kansas City, MO. But in either case, setting out from Wichita the next morning would put you in good shape to take US-54/US-400/US-50 across the plains to Greensburg, Dodge City and Pueblo. I went this way about 10 years ago and stopped in both Greensburg and Dodge City with very different experiences. I really enjoyed Greensburg. This was before the tornado, but they had the "World's Biggest Hand Dug Well" which I climbed to the bottom of. There was also a very nice meteorite museum attached to it which was a pleasant surprise. I would think the well is still open, and I would love to see hoe they've rebuilt the town. Dodge City was a bit of a disappointment, It seems every time I have steak in a cow town I get violently ill, and this was no exception. Still there is a museum and walking tour at old Fort Dodge if you're at all into history. And then Pueblo would put you in a bit better shape to head up the Black Canyon the next day. Finally, you should probably look at spending your final night around Beaver or Cedar City, UT. That would set you up for a brief visit to Zion National Park on your last leg back into Los Angeles.

AZBuck

This is why you all rock! This really gives me some great ideas (okay, maybe except for steak in Dodge City). The Greensburg well is still there; it was rebuilt and is open for tourists again. I really am curious to see all the new LEED certified construction; there's some really interesting architecture. If I get through there I'll try to do a trip report.

I think I'll wait to see how I feel before I decide whether to go I-70 or I-44/US400/50(etc); I'll be ready for either one. It sounds like the lower route wouldn't be too taxing, so that's good.

Pueblo looks like a more convenient stop for my trip forward from there, although there are a few places in Colorado Springs I'd really like to see. They're only about 45 miles apart, so I could swing up to Colorado Springs for the night I suppose. Not sure I'd go through Zion (I'm in an anti-crowd mood), but I'm definitely going to check out the cities AZBuck suggested.

Yay for having choices!!!

Wichita to Colorado Springs is still under 500 miles, so you should be able to do that in a long day - as long as you don't spend too much time in Greensburg and other towns. Other than in towns, the speed limit on 400 and 50 is 65, with plenty of passing zones.

The route I like from Colorado Springs back to 50 is US-24 to US-285.

glc - thanks. Why would you use take I-44 through Missouri rather than I-70/Kansas Turnpike to get to Wichita? More interesting sights?

Today, I'm just trying to figure out how to drive to work around the Michael Jackson funeral - I live about half way between the Jackson family home and the cemetery and the news helicopters have been up since 5:45 this morning!

No particular reason - it's only 35 miles longer (but about an hour longer) - I-44 gives you some Route 66 history if you care. The Kansas Turnpike is a toll road. If you are in a hurry, take that way. Maybe it's just because I live in Joplin and go to both Wichita and STL frequently and I've driven 44 and 400 quite a bit.

I just found out that a friend may come with me on my trip back to LA. She's never seen the Grand Canyon (or Bryce or Zion). In looking at the map, it looks like we could go from Arches south on US 191/US160/US89/64 to get to the South Rim. We could then drop down to Flagstaff for the drive back to LA. How long does the drive from Arches to Grand Canyon on this route take realistically?

Or, since we'll be up near I-70, we could save the Grand Canyon and visit Bryce and/or Zion before getting on the I-15 back to LA. I remember reading somewhere that the trip down US89 could be very time consuming. Would we be better off going to Zion via I-15?

I think I'd probably have to do a longer day or two of driving from St. Louis and skip my stops in Kansas if we want to gain an extra day in these areas. But that's okay if it means company on the ride home.

I'd really appreciate some thoughts on either route (or some other). Thanks much!

That route from Arches to the Grand Canyon is a relatively easy drive. Decent roads without a lot of traffic until you get close to the GC. It's only about 325 miles and would take you roughly 6 hours to drive. Of course, there are a lot of cool things to stop and look at so your departure/arrival times will probably be more than 6 hours apart. Add to that, once you get onto Desertview Drive, along the South Rim, you will want to stop at all the different lookout points (the first one will be Watchtower). This will also add some time.

Of course, you could go back and do those lookouts the next day if it's late and you're tired. But, even so, driving once you get into the national park will be a bit slower so plan for that.

There's no need to go to Flagstaff. If you leave directly from the Grand Canyon Village area, you can just go straight south to Williams, a bit west of Flagstaff, to pick up I-40.

I've driven US89 and found it a very easy road to drive. I thought it was relatively quick. I think you could easily see both Bryce and Zion before getting onto I-15 and heading toward home.

If you have time, have you considered visiting Arches, then Bryce, then Zion, and then driving around to the Grand Canyon? Your route would look something like this. Of course, whether this works depends on how many days you squeeze out. You would want at least a half-day for Arches and Bryce, a longer day for Zion, and a full day for the Grand Canyon. A decent itinerary might look something like this:

Day 1: Visit Arches in the morning to early afternoon and then drive the 275 miles to Bryce in the afternoon/early evening.

Day 2: Visit Bryce in the morning, If you just do the look-outs to see the amazing views and rock formations, you could probably be done by Noon, and then drive the short 86 miles to Zion, exploring it for the rest of the afternoon and evening.

Day 3: Drive the 250 miles to the Grand Canyon Village. If you get an early start, you could even squeeze in time to go visit the North Rim! It's very cool and worth doing. You could still get into the South Rim area by late afternoon and enjoy a few lookouts and watch the sunset.

Day 4: Get up early to enjoy the morning light at the GC...sunrise if you can crawl out of bed in time is great! See what you haven't seen yet, and you could probably be on your way to Williams by early afternoon.

Of course, these timeframes are assuming that you're more into casual walks and not into hiking. If you want to take time to do some more hiking into the various areas, this timeframe might be too tight for you.

Anyway, just a thought, if you can squeeze out the time.

Also, if you have the time, instead of taking 70 to 89 to get from Arches to Bryce, take 24 and 12 through Capitol Reef and Escalante.

From a time standpoint, I took this going the other way - I left Panguitch in the morning and got to Bryce shortly after 8am, and spent a couple hours hitting all the lookouts. I took 12 to 24 to Capitol Reef and spent another couple hours. I made it to Moab by dinnertime.

I'm really glad you popped in with that. I hesitated to recommend that route as I've never actually driven it and I wasn't sure how easy of a drive it is. Good to know.

Well, I didn't say it was an *easy* drive, but the scenery is just spectacular. They *are* mountain highways. It's 285 miles from Panguitch to Moab via that route.

Thanks both of you; this is exactly the info I needed. It's sort of like a kid in a candy store, isn't it? So many yummy choices. I don't think I'll have enough days to do all of Judy's itinerary, but once we're on the road, you never know . . .

Yup, I like that. It's a great analogy for road-tripping, imho. You always want more time.

If you can't find time to get to the Grand Canyon, I think the route glc suggested from Arches to Bryce and then a stop at Zion will make for a very memorable trip.

If you do that, take US-89 south out of the Bryce area and take UT-9 in the east gate of Zion through the tunnel. From there, it's an easy run through Springdale to I-15 to go back to LA. US-89 is a decently fast road with mostly 65 mph speed limits.

glc - funny you should mention that 12/24 route. I've been eyeing it on the map as a possible "let's go that way and see what happens" road. Mountain roads make me very happy.

It's looking more like we'll pass on Grand Canyon this time, so the 89/9 option - however I get there - looks very enticing. The time guidelines you both gave me are really, really helpful.

How hard would it be to get a motel room in Moab same-day? It might be a better place to spend the night, but I don't want to make reservations now or strike out when I get there.

Moab has quite a few hotels, but check the rates. Moab can be expensive in summer. I can say that both the Motel 6 and Super 8 are decent ones. The Riverside Inn across the street from the Super 8 is well maintained and reasonably priced, I have stayed there.

I've survived that last crazy week before vacation at work, and we're finally on our way early tomorrow morning. Thanks everyone for all the tips and ideas. I'll post a trip report when we get home.