What do i cut out??

Gday all. My wife and I will be in SW USA in May 09 and i wanted to bounce a few road trip idea off you. Basic limitations - arrive LAX late on May 11, leave late on May 29. In between, I'm totally flex. Here's what i have so far.....

3 full Days i La, 1 full day San Diego, Drive to Vegas for 2 days. From here, i basically have 10 days to spend. I was hoping to hire an RV in Vegas and do Zion, Bryce, North Rim, Moab and Monument valley in 5 days, back to Vegas then Yosemite, San Fran and coastal drive back to LA in the next 5.

We're used to driving long distances over sparse country (lots of that in Australia), but i get the feeling we're trying to squeeze too much in. I was either going to cut out
- Moab (is arches and canyonland the same sort of "stuff" as Southern Utah?)
- Yosemite (just due to the time it takes to get from LAS to Yosemite) or,
- The Californian coastal drive.

All kind of vague, i know, but with so much to do and so little time, i'm trying to work out which itinerary would give the most value vs time.

Any comments, suggestions, BS flags etc. etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks in Advance
Tik & Nat

Welcome to the RTA Forum!

Well, all of the places you are talking about are amazing places, but Moab sticks out as the "one of these things is not like the other" when compared to Yosemite or the Coast.

Moab is certainly not like the other parts of Utah you are talking about, but it is quite a bit out of the way from the other places you are talking about. You'd be adding a decent amount of miles to get there.

Yosemite and the Coast are "right on the way" so to speak. While certainly both will take some extra time to stop and see, you have to head that general direction anyway to get from Vegas to SF to LA.

Hi Michael. Thanks for the info - i've done a bit more digging around and came up with a few different alternatives. Options i have are

1. See Moab, Monument, South then North Rim (ie miss Zion and Bryce)
2. See Zion, North Rim, Monument Valley and Moab (miss Bryce and South Rim)
3. See South Rim, Monument, North Rim, Zion and Bryce (miss Moab).

Any personal opinions / thoughts on the above?

Cheers
Tik

If I faced your choice, I'd do just what you were originally contemplating and do two five day trips out of Las Vegas. The first would be the loop you're currently working on, and I'd go first to the Grand Canyon (South Rim), then Monument Valley, Moab/Arches, and finally back to Las Vegas via I-70/I-15 with stops at Bryce and Zion. The North Rim might be open by the time of your trip, but it's really out of your way and even at best services would be limited.

The other trip out of Las Vegas would be your return to Los Angeles via Yosemite, Monterey, and Big Sur. I think, though, that I'd be tempted to skip San Francisco. There 's just too much else to do on this trip to spend another day or two in another large city, as fascinating as San Francisco might be. You will have to take the long way around to Yosemite through Barstow and Bakersfield as the Tioga Pass (CA-120) will still be snow bound, so a day to get to Yosemite and a day spent there leaves you just enough time to see Monterey, Carmel, and the Big Sur coast at a leisurely pace.

AZBuck

G'day Tik and Nat, they are all amazing places to visit, welcome to R.T.A.

First of all I am wondering if you have looked into rental costs for an R.V.
It's a great way to travel [my favorite] but it is costly, especially for 2 people, More so than a car and motels.
Personally once I left either L/A or S/D I would pick one mode of transport and stick to it or else you will have 3 rentals all with extra one way drop off charges, plus not having to get to the rental company's address, doing paper work and swapping luggage about and also not having to return to Vegas will free up a lot of time, just a thought.
If you were to do this you could go from Vegas to Zion and Bryce canyon and then continue on scenic 12 to Torrey, the 24 through Hanksville
to I-70 and south on 191 to Moab and Arches N.P. Then continue south to the 160 through Monument valley and onto Grand canyon South rim.
That should be a comfortable 5 days with time to enjoy the sights. From the south rim you could get on I-40 to Barstow and 58 to Bakersfield and head North on the 99/41 to the south entrance of Yosemite, maybe stopping somewhere on the way when you have had enough driving. [Estimated 12 hour journey in total].
As Buck suggested, skipping San Fran at this point and heading for Monterey and a trip down the coast to L/A would probably be your best option for a more relaxed finish to your trip.

When you say Moab, do you mean Arches Nat'l Park?

Definitely beautiful, but would be the furthest away from where you're coming from. Bryce, Zion, etc would be more ideal.

If you're up for long driving, it's doable. But I think you should have your iterniary setup with some places you can scratch off if you take too much time.

Sykotyk

Thanks for all the replys - it's certainly a tough choice!!!!!!

Dave, I've basically changed to plans as you've suggested in terms of sticking with the same vehicle throughout. I'm interested in the cost comparison between car and RV. So far, it seems that the RV will cost about $200USD extra for the whole trip (comparing cheapest with cheapest). I figured you've save that amount easily by not having to eat out and figuring that a night in an RV park is cheaper than a motel.........we compared cheapa campa RV's with Fox Car rentals.

One problem though - The RV company says that travel to Death Valley and "other desert areas" is not permitted May to September. What counts as other desert areas? I've tried to email them, but the link doesn't work!!!

As a side note, i was going to the North Rim mainly because of less crowds - planning on "sightseeing" the south rim and "doing" the north rim (hikes, mule/horse trips etc.) Is this a valid assumption?

Again, thanks a heap for the info.

Hi there,

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Dave, I've basically changed to plans as you've suggested in terms of sticking with the same vehicle throughout.

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I think that's your best option.

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I'm interested in the cost comparison between car and RV. So far, it seems that the RV will cost about $200USD extra for the whole trip (comparing cheapest with cheapest

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That surprises me ! Be careful when comparing, with the R.V. there are usually extras such as; bedding and kitchen kits, prep fees, extra mileage charges from the company. On top of that you have the campsite fees and a return of only 10 m.p.g.
It's an amazing way to travel I.M.O. and I have recently booked another R.V. for our next trip but it's just a "heads up" warning.

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One problem though - The RV company says that travel to Death Valley and "other desert areas" is not permitted May to September. What counts as other desert areas

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This seems to be standard [for overseas visitors anyway] but you should contact the company as you have tried to do to define it. There are a lot of desert landscapes in the Southwest but along with D/V I guess the Mojave desert.
Plenty of R.V.'S cross with no problems but if you were to have an accident, a breakdown or even a blow out you could face a hefty bill

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As a side note, i was going to the North Rim mainly because of less crowds - planning on "sightseeing" the south rim and "doing" the north rim (hikes, mule/horse trips etc.) Is this a valid assumption?

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Sounds right to me.

Thanks Dave - I dug a little deeper about the RV thing and you're right - it is quite a bit more expensive. For 18 days hire (LA to LA);
CAR - $573
RV - $1029.

Although the RV would be great, i don't think we'll save $450 odd over 18 days in food and accommodation (plus the extra cost of the fuel). However, RV parks look like $40ish a night, with a motels between $60 and $100 a night. Over 18 nights, that adds up to quite a saving in accommodation.

Again, just bouncing my "web surfing" info against you guys in the know. Do the above numbers sound about right?

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Thanks Dave - I dug a little deeper about the RV thing and you're right - it is quite a bit more expensive. For 18 days hire (LA to LA);
CAR - $573
RV - $1029.

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No problem. Although I would love to know what motor and where you can get an R.V from for less than $60 a day !!

I just ran your dates through one of the big dealers with kitchen and bedding kits and mileage included and I came back with this;

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Estimate
(All Prices USD $)
18 Nights $1206.00
1800 Estimated miles $576.00
Supplemental Liability Insurance No Charge
Vehicle Prep Fee No Charge
Kitchen Kit $100.00
Personal Kits $100.00
State Tax (8.25%) $163.52
Total charge $2145.52
Damage Deposit $500.00
Due on Pickup $2645.52

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That includes 1800 miles which anything under or over that is refunded or charged at 32 cents per mile. As I said before the extras do add up and there are deals about but I would almost certainly say that the total charge will be nearer $2000 than $1000.
When there are four people sharing the cost rather than having 2 hotel rooms a night is when the costs become closer.

Campsites you can get from between $18 and $45 a night whereas I would allow $70 a night for a reasonable hotel.

I am guessing the R.V. could well be a no,no this time around but if you were to hire one I wouldn't have one for your time in L/A, I would stay in Motels and pick up your rental when leaving [i.e. 14/15 day rental].

The site i went to was this one.

12May - 29May in the D-21 Camper from Cheapa Campa. It comes with 100 miles a day, so i added 500 miles. This is what came out. I'll have to double check, but i'm pretty sure the camper already has kitchen equipment and we were planning on bringing a sleeping back with us (we're staying mainly in hostels for the rest of our trip). We'll only rent from Vegas to Vegas for 5 days, but i wanted to make sure i wasn't missing something in the below rental

Vehicle rental rates: Daily rate: 44.62 x 18 USD $803.16
15% Early booking discount on Cheapa Campa info – USD $120.47
Extras:
Buy Extra 500 Mileage Packages info 1 x 145.00 USD $145.00
Fees:
Booking Fee 9.95 USD $9.95
Total price USD $837.64
Deposit payable upon confirmation – USD $119.00
Balance payable on arrival USD $718.64
Other fees payable locally upon arrival:
Vehicle Preparation Fee info 100.00 USD $100.00
Tax and Administration Fees 10% info 92.34 USD $92.34

That's a great little camper unit for the 2 of you.
I was worried for a moment as four of us have booked a larger one already, but on doing the sums our original came out cheaper, Phew ! ;-)

Your quote looks in order and prior to [if] you booking it you should get a full confirmation. The only thing I noticed a little higher than normal was the first$1000 payable in case of any damage.

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We'll only rent from Vegas to Vegas for 5 days, but i wanted to make sure i wasn't missing something in the below rental

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I would still do your sums on this one if you are planning to rent a car from L/A to Vegas/ camper Vegas to Vegas/ Vegas back to L/A. You will incur two one way rental charges and with the hassle is it worth it?

There are R.V parks in Vegas like circus circus on the strip for around $40
a night or Oasis resort [nice place] a short ride away.
Inside the National parks such as Zion and Grand canyon the accommodations can be dearer but you can camp for $18 a night in quiet wooded areas, very nice. Once you are inside the parks you can use shuttle buses [free of charge] to get around.
So it's still very much worth considering.

Hi Dave - i seem to be going around in circles here, but i've gone back to the rv idea!!!!!!! We've done few trips in Australia and NZ and i've decided to "rough it" a bit more in NYC, which presents significant savings (ie overnight bus vs flight and hotel has saved over $300....i can't believe how expensive NYC is!!!). We're still waiting for confimations, but for $1300, we get 13 nights and unlimited kms with cruise america (50% discount on the miles PLUS 15% of the rate). I'm happier to go with the more reputable company. So here's the plan......

DAY 1&2 - LA with a rental car
DAY 3 - pick up RV and drive to Vegas
4 - Vegas
5 - Drive to Zion. Stay at Mt Carmel Junction
6 - Bryce - stay somewhere between Bryce and Canyonlands
7 - Canyonlands - overnight Moab
8 - Arches, Monument Valley - overnight Kayenta
9 - Grand Canyon South Rim - overnight South Rim
10 - South Rim, Drive to Death Valley - Overnight death Valley
11 - Death Valley to Yosemite
12 - Yosemite, then San Fran
13 - San Fran
14 - San Fran to LA coastal (may do it in 2 days)
15 - Back in LA, return RV.

How does that sound in terms of time and distance?

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Hi Dave - i seem to be going around in circles here, but i've gone back to the rv idea!!!!!!!

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That's what planning and checking your options is all about, nice one. C/America is who I got a good deal off.

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How does that sound in terms of time and distance?

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It's certainly doable and I am sure you are aware it will be "busy" but it will give you an overview of the places you visit which are all incredible. So is the scenery in between.

Here's a couple of thoughts;
Zion As far as I can remember there are no places around the Mount Carmel area to stop over. The N.P. has the Watchman campground just in the main entrance in a nice setting. Once in there you can get free shuttle bus through the main canyon and it also goes to the lovely little town of Springdale, great for a wander at night. In the canyon spend 2 or 3 hours doing the riverside walk which is a flat easy walk with great views.

Bryce canyon If you drive the canyon road [very good paved road] drive all the way to Rainbow point first and visit all the viewpoints on the way back as all the pull offs will be on your side of the road and it's easier than crossing the traffic [especially in the R.V. The viewpoints are all a few short steps away. In the main area [Amphitheatre e.t.c.] you can use the shuttle bus. Although it's not really enough time you can see the view points in half a day here whereas Zion is more about taking walks.
Either stay the night here [Ruby's Inn R.V. park] or push on towards Torrey/Hanksville which have parks. [Hanksville has the "Hole in the rock" Gas station]. Capitol reef will make a nice stop overnight as well.
From there to Grand canyon looks fine but if you wanted to push on nearer to G/C, I would do Arches N.P on your first day in Moab and spend more time there then if you still want to visit Canyonlands take the drive and have a look from the viewpoint at Dead Horse point. This will give you a bit more time and you could get as far as Cameron trading post closer to the G/C. The R.V. park isn't much but the shop and restaurant will keep you occupied untill bed time.
The end of your trip looks busy with a lot of miles to cover. You also need to factor in that the tioga pass could possibly still be closed. Here's the previous opening dates. It's something you will need to keep an eye on.

I like to see as much as possible but there is a fine balance to doing that. Try too much and you miss a lot of splendour of the places you are visiting, that time you need to sit back and absorb it, to take it all in, isn't available. Personally you are on the edge with that and I would think about your options and make a decision. If you want to feel more relaxed then I would either remove Arches/Canyonlands from your itinerary or San Fran to free up a couple of days, tough call.

If you want more of an insight to some of those places then have a look at some of the pics from R.V trip covering a lot of the same area.