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I will be in USA from NZ early Oct to buy an RV for extended travelling in hopefully USA, Canada and Mexico. I have heard that there are certain States in USA and Canada whereby you need an endorsement on your licence to have a vehicle with air brakes. Is this true?
Hi Daisydog,
This is just a stab at an answer, as driver's license statutes and regs are, as you know, a state-by-state issue. That said, I don't believe my home state of NC requires an endorsement for air brakes per se. What IS required is a Commercial Driver's License (CDL) for the operator of any vehicle which is over 26,000 lbs gross vehicle weight (GVW). The term most often used here is "pusher" which refers to rear-engine bus-style motorcoaches, most of which I would assume are > 26,000 lbs, diesel powered, and employ air brakes. The next size down should be "Class A" which are often gasoline powered, shorter and lighter than a pusher, and < 26,000 lbs, having regular hydraulic-power assist brakes. If there are Class As with air brakes, I am not familiar with them. The sizes get smaller from there and I don't know that I've seen the smaller models with air brakes whatsoever.
I hope this helps.
Foy
Unless there has been a change in the last couple of months -- I am unaware of any state that requires any kind of endorsement for driving any kind of RV (no matter what the size and weight of the vehicle). All RV's used for personal use are exempted from CDL requirements. There are some wishy-washy and otherwise murkier conditions for professional drivers driving RV's in support of professional racing teams -- but I believe even those are generally exempt from CDL requirements.
Mark
It's great to be corrected in an informative, yet gracious, manner.
It occurred to me there could be exemptions to the CDL rules for recreational operators of RVs but I was puzzled by the normal 26,000 lb CDL breakpoint and was guessing few other than the diesel pusher "bus-style" motorcoaches would approach that weight to begin with.
Best,
Foy
I didn't mean that to sound harsh -- traffic laws in the USA are not consistent on this issue -- truthfully, I don't know what the current standards are. All I do know is that I know plenty of diesel-pusher owners and none of them have CDLs. But I welcome any additional tips or information you have on this issue (and I certainly apologize for the tone -- 100% unintended).
Mark
Mark,
I was sincere, not sarcastic, in my thanks for the correction, as well as my thanks for the genuinely gracious tone of it. No offense sensed and none taken.
The one gentleman I know who's operated a diesel pusher for some 20 years happens to be a retired truck driver who kept up his CDL for some time. It makes much sense to me there'd be an exemption for recreational operators, just as it makes sense that the coach drivers for race teams, John Madden, etc aren't engaged in recreational activities and require licensure commensurate with their vehicles and tasks.
Foy
I drove support for a CART team in 1997 -- 34-foot motorhome (it wasn't a pusher, but we were certainly operating fully-laden) -- I can't remember what our scale rate was -- but in any case I didn't have a CDL and it never came up as to whether I needed one.
So, getting back to the air brakes issue -- someone should look into this for us! {I've asked our two resident RV experts, (Alice and Jamie), for their comments}
Mark
Have you seen how some of them drive? I think I've seen more near-miss accidents in the wake of something an RV driver has done, especially those driving the really big Class A's, than any other cause. Quite a few seem to drive with the attitude of "hey, I'm big and I can do what I like". It drives me batty. A highway goes straight through my town and I have seen things that would make you want to stay off the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foy
Of course, I'm not talking about all drivers of bigger RVs....so please don't take personal offense, anybody....but they are out there. Heck, my father-in-law who used to have a 32' Class A would white-knuckle it and be so afraid of what was up ahead that he never turned his head. I rode with him at the wheel once. Never again. He drove his car just fine.
I have never noticed any higher trend among RV drivers as being any more distracted or dangerous than any other class. I think one has to give extra room to RV rental drivers -- but as rule, in my experience drivers of Class A RVs (the big ones) are more skilled than most drivers in passenger cars. It really comes down to the higher performance any kind of vehicle is the better caliber of driver will be found behind the wheel. Given a choice, I would rather drive down the road with a fleet of Prevosts than a generic mix of inexpensive passenger cars -- based strictly on the skill levels of the drivers.
Mark
But the sheer size of the bigger rigs can have a bigger impact. The narrow streets in my town, with lots of turns and lights, just aren't made for the traffic that drives through town, particularly in the summer or during clam tides, so this probably emphasizes the driving skills, or lack thereof, of those in the big RVs. Just the other day, I had one turn left from the right-hand lane just in front of me. I was in the left-hand lane about 20 feet back of him. If I hadn't been paying attention, I could have slammed right into him. I'm glad nobody was close behind me. I could relate far more close encounters like that with RVs than I can with other cars. But, then again, the characteristics of my particular town's roads might be contributing to that. Although I have seen similar elsewhere, too.
I know I have heard many other people lament that RV drivers aren't required to get a CDL license so it's not just me. I think that it might be good to have some kind of in-between requirement. If people need an endorsement to drive a motorcycle, why not to drive a 30-footer? Makes no sense to me!
My experience with class A's is that as rule -- the longer ones are better engineered than most SUV and pick-ups. Some of the 34-foot class A's I have driven have better (tighter) turning radius than every SUV or pickup I have ever driven.
Rather than an endorsement for a RV, I would rather see that good, competent drivers of any class vehicle get a special endorsement that would provide evidence of being a "better" driver and get a break on insurance costs or DMV fees.
Every larger vehicle driver knows, or should know, the limits of turning radii and I bet that driver that turned left from the right lane did it intentionally -- are you sure there was not a turn signal from the vehicle? I have had to execute some "odd" looking lane changes myself a time or two.
The biggest pet peeve I have with passenger vehicle drivers is their lack of awareness of the required stopping distance of a 10-ton vehicle -- smaller cars frequently cut in front of RVs because they believe that a 10-ton vehicle can stop as quickly as their 1-2 ton vehicle. A couple of kids tried to slip in front of the Phoenix One (7.5 tons) one time at highway speeds and then immediately braked to turn right on a side road -- even with my brakes locked up I had no choice but to give them a glancing blow -- something I doubt they will ever forget -- the winch on the Phoenix One cleared the trunk before (nearly) making contact with the rear window of the sedan... The woman siting in the back seat of the sedan was a little concerned....
Mark
Just like in the US, driving rules and regulations is a Province-to-Province matter. I don't know about the other Provinces, but in Quebec only professional truck drivers are required to have a "F" (stands for "freins" in French = brakes in English) mention on their driver's license. I doubt there is any requirement of that sort for RV drivers since they are not part of the same class (class 1 = CDL) and I know some folks with RV's who do not have a CDL at all.
Gen,
Nice to see you online here today -- thanks for the info about the air brakes issue.
Mark
Yes, he had on a turn signal. I expected him to change lanes into my lane. I slowed down to give him even more room than he already had. I did not expect him to be turning into a parking lot and coming to virtually a complete stop right in front of me. I say virtually as he entered the parking lot at probably about 5mph with the back end of his rig in the right-hand lane, and the rest of his rig in my lane as he slowly pulled into the parking lot. Nobody could have expected that. If I hadn't been aware and slowed down, I would have run into him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist
And, this is probably due to a lesson learned. About 25 years ago I had a truck/5th wheel due to exact same thing to me but I don't think that car braked as well, or I might have been a tad closer, as all I could do was slam on my brakes and watch my car plow right into the back corner of the trailer putting a perfect V-shape into the front of my car. And then the guy in back of me rammed my back-end. I think we were in slo-mo as we were all trying to stop to give the guy room so I wasn't injured but my car was totaled.
So, ever since, I have given as wide of berth as possible to any big rigs, whether RVs or commercial trucks.
I checked with Lorrin Walsh, author of Drive Your Motorhhome Like a Pro, and his information was similar to Mark's. Here's what he said:
"At this time the only state that I know of that requires an air brake endorsement is California, but that is only for motorhomes 40' and you also need a 'Non commercial Class B license.' There are also some restrictions as to where you can drive. I have heard that some other states may follow suit. In most states a 'Personal Drivers License' is all you need to drive any size motorhome. I will throw in a twist though, it is my understanding that some states are requiring CDL's and log books for the people who deliver motorhomes, because they are getting paid to drive them and they then fall under the DOT rules."
In my other research I did see strong recommendations to get training if you plan to drive a vehicle with airbrakes.
Good luck! Enjoy your trip.
Jaimie Hall Bruzenak
{Jaimie is a RTA expert RV Lifestyle columnist and some of her columns can be found here}
Very interesting about the California requirements and the log-book issues for those "delivering" RVs.
Thanks,
Mark
I stumbled upon another Web site that lists the states where CDLs or special licensing for RVs is required. Each state has a link to their driver's licensing department so you can read more about it. There are several states that do require a special license if you are licensed in their state and drive an RV with a gvwr of more than 26,000 lbs or over a certain length.
Jaimie Hall Bruzenak
I looked at some of the state entries, the site hosts have been very diligent about fact-checking the status of current regulations. Excellent job finding that link!