Help me plan our road trip!

Hi Guys,

Had a little look round the forum to answer quite a few questions i've had, but i thought it would be best to tell you what my plans are and to see if you can help :)

First of all, i'll be coming from the UK. I hope to bring a van load of other people.

My initial plan is to go from Chicago -> Cali. Please find a map i have constructed of the 'sights to see' so far.

Here's the dreaded bit, questions!

- Whats to do between Chicago and Las Vegas (i don't mind bending the route a little)?
- How many days would you say the trip would take?
- What is the average $ for a motel?
- If we were to camp, is there a website for locations and rules regarding where you can camp?

Just working out fuel costs for an estimated 1800 mile trip.

I have guessed an average of 25mpg for a rental car at a cost of $3 per gallon. This comes out as just over $200 in fuel.

This is a direct route, so am aware that driving off the beaten path will increase the cost... but would $400 sound about right?

Thanks!

-Rob

Just been looking at plane flights and i can't go direct to Chicago, pants! Looks like the start is Minneapolis instead!

Hello englebert, and welcome to the RoadTrip America forums!

My first impression is that you're starting in the right direction -- starting to list what you and the other folks you're traveling with might want to see. Keep going -- there are lots more places to see. I'm partial to natural sights, so I'll just note that while you got a first pass, there's quite a bit more from Carlsbad Caverns (a bit south of your route) to Canyon De Chelle, Petrefied Forest, Santa Fe, Red Rock country around Sedona, Saguro Cactus National Park, etc -- all within a couple of hours of your route, just in the state of Arizona alone. You might also look at some of the old "Route 66" guides, which was a famous highway from Chicago to LA. After you've put some more points on the map, the next thing is the hardest part -- lay out a route, realizing you'll not see all that you can or might want to see.

Hotel prices depend -- upon location, upon demand, and upon quality. A typical rule of thumb is about $40-50 per person per night. I typically stay in the $80/ night range for 2 people. This is typically a good quality, but not fancy hotel, with usually a free continental breakfast in the morning (coffee, rolls and cold cereal). There are several good quality, but not fancy, chains that provide this. However -- if you want a hotel in a very high demand area, such as right on the edge of the Grand Canyon -- you may pay more. (I'd also advise early reservations for this, since these limited hotel rooms fill up quickly). Similarly, a high end hotel can run more than $200/ night with literally the sky's the limit on price.

Don't forget food as well -- that can run as little as $10-15/ per person per day if you're preparing your own meals, up to $50 per day if you're buying all your meals in restaurants.

Camping is somewhat cheaper -- a tent or RV site runs in the $10-30/ night range. I typically split my trips between campgrounds and moderate class hotels. There is no single website which provides a listing of all the campgrounds, and rules for where to camp. A good start however, would be to look at KOA (Kampgrounds of America) which are larger, RV-oriented campgrounds of usually good quality, or through the ReserveAmerica web site, which provides a centralized camping reservation site for many of the California and other state campgrounds, or through the US National Parks Website, for campgrounds in the National Park system. State, County and City governments may have their own sites for the campgrounds they operate, and private operators their own as well. In some areas it is possible to just camp anywhere off the road a ways, but those regulations are made on a site by site basis (eg, Anza Borrego Desert State Park allows is in most of the park, but not the Palm Canyon area because of the high use there. Angeles National Forest does not allow this, but Mule Mountain Desert Recreation Area has large areas that you can. etc )

When I do my planning I use a paper map from the AAA (Automobile Association of America) which provides a paper map of California or another state and lists all the campgrounds they know about. Then I go look to see if there is a website for reservation, or call the phone number to get one. I've stayed in private, county, state and national park campgrounds, as well as BLM (Bureau of Land Management) remote area camps. Reservations are recommended if its a high demand or highly desirable campground (such as right on the beach, particularly in the summer or on a weekend.)

If you've got a vanful of people, the van may not get quite that good of mileage. You may be seeing 18-20 mpg, depending upon the specifics of the van. For planning purposes, I'd tend to be conservative -- doubling the estimated cost for added side trips is a good start. $3/ gallon is a reasonable estimate for regular fuel, which is probably what a van will need. There are "premium" blends of gasoline which some cars need for a higher performance engine, and this can add another $0.30 per gallon or more.
I have guessed an average of 25mpg for a rental car at a cost of $3 per gallon.

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Originally Posted by englebert

My initial plan is to go from Chicago -> Cali. Please find a map i have constructed of the 'sights to see' so far.

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You have an arrow in Massachusetts. Are you planning on going there, too?

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- Whats to do between Chicago and Las Vegas (i don't mind bending the route a little)?

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There are thousands of interesting things to see/do along this route. And numerous routes to choose from. And what I like, might not jazz you at all. It's hard to recommend without knowing anything about you. I suggest getting a good, big paper map of the US and pouring over it, marking national parks, cities, and anything else on it that you would like to see. And then see if a specific route jumps out as the most logical to get you to the places you want to see most. Once you have some more specific ideas, come on back here for our advice.

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- How many days would you say the trip would take?

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Anywhere from a 2-day speed run that will be extremely tiring, stressful, and not allow you a second to play to....well, how much time do you have? It's about 1750 miles so I would want a minimum of 5 days for an average of 300 miles to travel per day. This leaves time to play in the day.

However, bear in mind that this 1750 miles is on the fastest/shortest route and that might not be the route you choose. For example, if you followed old Route 66, it's closer to 2000 miles and, ideally, I'd want a 6th day for that route.

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- What is the average $ for a motel?

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It depends on what level of luxury/amenities that you want and if you'll be staying in cities or outside of urban areas. I have found lodging in the $40-50 range with a lot of web searching. But I would say that $60-70 is your more likely average. But if you stay in cities, that could quickly jump up to $100 night or more. Motel 6, Super 8, and Days Inn are just a few of the lower-priced chains you might check out if price is a concern.

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- If we were to camp, is there a website for locations and rules regarding where you can camp?

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Reserve America will help you find government-owned campgrounds (national parks, national forests, army corps of engineers, bureau of land management, state parks, etc.). Woodall's is a fairly good site for finding more privately-owned campgrounds. You might also check out the recommended books on this site for some good books you can purchase with a lot of good camping information.

In a nutshell, for the most part you can only camp in designated campgrounds. An exception would be in national forests that do allow some disbursed camping in wilderness areas with strict "leave no trace" rules for campers to follow.

Fees are usually about $15-25/night per campsite.

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Just working out fuel costs for an estimated 1800 mile trip.

I have guessed an average of 25mpg for a rental car at a cost of $3 per gallon. This comes out as just over $200 in fuel.

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You said you're hoping to bring a van full of people. I'm not sure that any van will give you that good of mileage. It's probably best to determine what kind of vehicle you will need to rent to carry the number of people and their gear first, and then finding out what the estimated fuel consumption is. But bear in mind that few drivers actually get the mileages the car companies claim their vehicles get.

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This is a direct route, so am aware that driving off the beaten path will increase the cost... but would $400 sound about right?

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Again, this depends on what route you end up taking. It sounds reasonable if you're able to really get 25mpg but with a vanful of people, you might be closer to 15mpg. So it's really too early to say at this point, imho.

Welcome to the site, nice to see another Brit!
It is always next to impossible to negotiate a route when there are more than a couple of people involved. In these cases I usually recommend basing the journey on a route developed by a company whose job it is to develop a route which gives you a real cross section of destinations.

Trek America is just one of many companies.

Wow, thanks for the help so far! I will take this on board and share it with my friends :)

Hi Guys,

Had a chance to discuss this and one thing i meant to ask with the route change (starting from Minneapolis opposed to Boston) is that is 2 weeks still OK? I understand starting from Boston would of been really stretching it, but i'm worried two weeks is too long starting from Minneapolis?

Having said that, if we continued past Las Vegas for a few days and as far as California would that make two weeks too short?

Cheers! :)

2 Weeks would be enough time to get from Minneapolis to California, but if you want to stop in Vegas for a few day, that will start to put a crunch on your ability to see everything else - Especially Yellowstone which is quite aways from the rest of the sights you want to see.

To cut down on some of your driving time you might look into flying into someplace farther west. Denver would probably be the biggest hub, but you could also look into some smaller cities in the mountain west.

Thanks Michael.

Having done a quick itinerary of all of the places and how much time it would take to get to them, it kind of kicks Yellowstone out of the equation. It's pretty much a day's extra driving, or perhaps more, just to get to one place.

There seems to be more things to do further West so i'd rather spend more time there!

My next question is Aspen. I understand this is quite popular for rich folk, but is it possible to stay there on the cheap? Will it be too cold for camping?

Here's a chart showing Aspen's average high-low temps. It should give you an idea of what to expect.

Good call on dropping Yellowstone. As wonderful as it would be to see it, I think it would make your trip way too rushed. I guess you'll have to plan a return trip to the US West?

Ha, yeah you're probably right! Thanks for the Aspen link!

For each place we're visiting i've found info on camping. Is it essential to book in advance, or can we (up to 10 people) just turn up on the day? I guess going at a popular time (July) might swing this towards making bookings necessary?

You will definitely want reservations in places like Grand Canyon and Yosemite. You might be able to get by without reservations at most of the other areas you're traveling through.

I typically have a few guidebooks with campgrounds or motels listed and, if I'm getting concerned about finding a place, I'll call ahead when I start getting an idea of where I might stop that night to reserve a place.

Or I'll make reservations before I go and then carefully note the cancellation policy, and then call ahead to cancel if I am not going to make it there that night after all.

Thanks Judy, something to think about then. There is that problem of not actually getting to a place on the day i think i will. Will have to ask about cancellation then!

Trying to get indicative costs for car hire for my Minneapolis to Las Vegas trip next Spring. I am 22, and as most seem to like being 25 i guess i will be paying a premium.

With Avis, i'm being quoted £582 ($1171) for 2 weeks hire. Unfortunately there is no mention of mileage constraints on the website, would it be unlimited?

When it comes to the car itself, i need a big car with 6 seats, is a Dodge Van better than a Chevy Uplander for space?

If anyone has any recommendations i'd be grateful. I was on a website the other day (that i now can't remember!) that allowed me to add extras such as Sat Nav which would be very useful.

To add to this, is there any advantage to booking before you arrive? I know selection of cars might be a problem in July, but do you think that would be a big issue in Minneapolis?

Cheers

-Rob

You would want to call up the firm to find out about mileage. Some companies list these details on their websites, others don't.

I would suggest booking before you arrive. This should guarantee you the vehicle you want. However, the usual terminology used is "Vehicle x (or similar)" - so even if you rent, say, a Dodge, you may still end up in a Chevrolet.

As for room in these vehicles, I couldn't tell you which has more room. I think the Grand Caravan (Dodge) has more than the Chevy. You could check for information from the respective manufacturer's website.

Thanks Tim! Good idea with checking out the manfacturers.


I changed my start destination to Minneapolis because it seems to be easier to get a direct flight from London Gatwick. Thing is, i'm now on Expedia and the only direct flights are about £1.7k!

I really want to start in that area so i can see the sights up there, are there other airports not too far away that are used to direct flights from the UK?

I want to get to Minneapolis and then fly back from Las Vegas. Do you think it would be easier to book two separate flights or is there always a discount when you're booking a return?

Thanks

-Rob

I would pretty strongly recommend booking your car in advance. I've never seen a case where people have gotten a better deal just by showing up at the counter, plus you'll be in a better position to compare prices across a variety of companies.

We've also had several posts from Europe indicating they were able to find better deals booking in their home company than trying to deal directly with the US company. I can't say if that would be the case for you, but it is worth checking out.

When it comes to direct flights into the upper midwest, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, and possibly Cincinatti or St. Louis are really the only cities that you might be able to find a direct flight from London.

Its hard to say which route you'll find the best flight deals on, and its also hard to say if you'll have more luck sticking to one airline. You'll really just have to do some shopping and searching. Since roundtrip tickets are almost always cheaper, you might find your best deal is to get a round trip ticket from London to Minneapolis/Chicago and then just do a one way flight from Las Vegas back to the midwest.

For UK residents I cannot recommend the travel section of the moneysavingexpert.com forum highly enough. Post your predicament up there and they will surely be able to help. There's also lots of tactics for finding the best car rental deals up on the main website there.

For my last couple of trips I have booked the car via Airline Network who have given me a very good price. Be sure, when comparing prices, be certain that you are comparing like for like. The prices on Airline Network will include Super CDW (no deductible/excess to pay if you have a bump) and drop off charges where applicable.

Thanks for the links Craig, they look very useful! Just checked out the hire car and it's already over £200 cheaper than my Avis quote :D

The only problem is age, i don't suppose anyone knows how much extra they charge for under 25s?

Sadly it's been a couple of years since I've had to worry about that lol

It should be covered in the terms and conditions attached to your quote though, I'd have thought? If it's not then I'd call them. They advertise an expensive 0871 number so ring their direct dial number on 01772 550124 and see what they advise.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Craig!

The biggest problem i have now is the flights. I've taken your advise and spent all day looking at the money saving forum and have started a thread there.

At the moment i've estimated £1000 each (including flights and car hire) for the 2 week trip. Am in being unrealistic in trying to beat this do you think? Half of that cost is just the flights.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Michael

Since roundtrip tickets are almost always cheaper, you might find your best deal is to get a round trip ticket from London to Minneapolis/Chicago and then just do a one way flight from Las Vegas back to the midwest.

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Thanks for the advice. Currently letting the websites do the work for me is proving cheaper. It's $200 cheaper to go from London > Minneapolis and return from Las Vegas that do a simpler return from Minneapolis, somehow. Work that one out!

I thought maybe we should just go to Las Vegas and return from there too, cutting the trip a little and missing some sights. But that option is $300 more! Silly really. I'm worried that what i've found is actually as good as it gets.

I do not like to pay more than £300 for return flights but that has gone out of the window since the goverment played the green card and bumped up airport tax :( Generally there are still some very god deals out there, especially to larger airports such as New York, Los Angeles, San Fransisco or Las Vegas. You will likely be paying a premium for flying into/out of different airports so it generally works out far cheaper to do a circular trip. Havng said that, look for flights with US based arlines such as Delta, American, etc. as they can do sme very keen prices if you're happy with a stopover en route. I am in Florida in November and got a LHR-MIA outbound and a ORL-MIA-LHR inbound for the same price as a LHR-MIA/MIA-LHR.

If you are considering changing to a circular route out of, say, Las Vegas, be sure to check out the deals on cheapflights.co.uk as well as those in the Sunday newspapers. There are some crackers to be had.

Thanks for the advice, shame about the tax issue then! So Sunday Times and Mail would be good for flights? I'm guessing this would be nearer the time of the holiday?

I would start looking as soon as possible, to be honest. Most of the time it is far cheaper to book flights in advance as they are increased as the plane fills. It is rare for scheduled flight prices to come down as time goes on -- in fact the only instance of this that comes to mind was when BA went on strike last year and suffered the PR backlash after leaving passengers sleeping for three or four days at the airport or, worse still, stuck in a plane and unable to get off. The only way that they could resolve the situation was to slash prices. Virgin and the others had no choice but to follow their lead and, for a while, there were some insane deals to be had.

Ok, i may of made some headway!

I got my sister to speak to her manager (who's american) and she suggested South West as like an EasyJet of the US. She's certainly right, managed to get restricted tickets to only £65 each (not including some small taxes). I can't view July flights for a few months yet though...

Elsewhere, Travelocity/Last Minute are around £300 for a return flight from Chicago. So that is a total of £365.

Going to Chicago means more driving than Minneapolis but it seems the best route so far.

You seem to be right about the whole early/late booking thing. Doesn't matter what date i choose, even if it's next week the price is only £10 cheaper...

So is 14 days from Chicago - Las Vegas plentiful do you think? Here is an updated map. I think it might be worth missing out Mount Rushmore as it is a bit of a long trip... does Omaha have anything interesting?

I've got nothing against Omaha but I think you'll find a lot of things in the Mt. Rushmore area to make it worth the detour. Wall Drug, Badlands, Black Hills, Deadwood, Crazy Horse memorial, Wind Caves are just a few of the other things to see in that area. Of course, you have a time factor to consider but, if you can squeeze it in, I don't think you'll be disappointed with South Dakota.

OK, fair enough then! Do you still think 2 weeks is OK? Is doing it any less (therfore saving a couple of days of hotels and general expenditure) possible, or would it be rushed?

Cheers

-Rob

Depends how long you have really! I always manage to squeeze loads in to my trips but, when I travelled with someone else recently, I realised that most people like to travel at a far more sedate pace to me. You could do the trip in two weeks. If you had three or even four weeks you'd still manage to fill that time. Your plans kinda expand and contract to fit the amount of time and money you have.

Personally, and bear in mind what I just said about me travelling fast, I would prefer to take slightly longer if I could.

Just for perspective, I did a 2300+ miles trip home stopping in El Paso for a couple of hours, taking the back roads (slower) through the Gila Forest (with lots of quick stops for photo opps and some wildlife viewing), a couple of hours in the Petrified Forest, a quick tour of Holbrook with its funky dinosaurs, wig-wams, etc., a tour of Bedrock City, about 8 hours exploring Grand Canyon's South Rim, about 4 hours at the North Rim, a brief stop in Zion (some heat exhaustion was the reason for the brief stop; not a time issue), about 4-5 hours at Bryce Canyon, and then zipped the rest of the way home (with many quick stops at various places of interest and photo opps along the way. And I did it in 4 days. It meant getting up early, usually leaving at about 7am, and driving until 8:30-9:00 each night as I did it in June's long days of daylight but wanted to be in camp before dark to set-up the tent and enjoy the campground atmosphere.

Anyway, I did all that in 4 days and had a heckuva great time. 2300+ miles. Of course, it took me a few days of coming home from work and crashing right after dinner to recuperate! You have 2 weeks and about 3000 miles. That's 10 more days for 700 more miles.

Only you can make that decision but, when I did it, I knew that it might be years, if ever, that I'd get back to some of those places so I wanted to cram in as much as I could. If you think you'll get back, you might want to enjoy the luxury of a slower-paced trip. The choice is your's but it is do-able.

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I knew that it might be years, if ever, that I'd get back to some of those places so I wanted to cram in as much as I could

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That is precisely the way I look at it. Plenty of time for sleeping on the plane home! But, if you can squeeze a little more time for the trip, take it. You can never have enough time when visiting some of the places that you are planning to visit...

That's reassuring. I'd spend 3 or 4 weeks there if i could but the reality is that i am dominated by budget here... so 2 weeks really is a maximum.

Thanks for the advice :)

Just one thing to be careful of with Southwest -- Southwest flies into Midway airport in Chicago while all international flights go out of O'Hare. Just don't schedule too tightly in Chicago and you'll be fine -- you will need to have time to get from one airport to the other.

Good tip, thanks! Do you know how far they are from each other?

Have been looking in the papers but Chicago doesn't seem to be listed often. Good deals to Las Vegas though.

Any other recommendations on car hire? Unfortunately that great site Craig supplied doesn't have any 6 or 7 seaters next year for some strange reason. Avis in comparison are 200% of the price for other models!

Be careful booking connecting flights yourself. As jcorb2d has pointed out there are a number of pitfalls waiting to bite you on the bum. As well as inadvertantly booking for different airports within the same city you have to be wary of your inbound flight being delayed. If it is set to get in at, say, 1400 and you book a connecting flight at, say, 1600 you will be fine, right? Well, 90% of the time, yes. But if it's delayed an hour then you just ain't gonna clear immigration, check-in and make it to the gate in time for your connection. But you can claim against your inbound airline, right? Wrong. You'll be having to buy 6 or 7 new flights at 'last minute' rates. Nasty.

Far better, in my opinion, to pay a few extra bucks at the outset and get a proper flight. I mentioned previously about my LHR-MIA and ORL-MIA-LHR flight next month. I've got to be honest, I'm worried about the very short time that they've allowed for me in Miami on the return leg. However, frankly, that's their problem as I booked it all through one company. If they make me late and I miss my flight back to London then they have to pay for me to be transferred to the next flight and put me in a hotel if necessary. If I'd booked two individual itineraries with different companies then I would be very nervous about now.

Have you ever flown Ryanair? If so then you'll know all about the sort of company that South West are. The guy who started Ryanair based their business model on South West. 'nuff said.

I suppose now isn't the best time to mention that Ryan Air have the best customer service record in the UK. I'm not sure what that says for the airline industry lol...

I think the point you make is valid, and normally i'd take your advice, but with money being the biggest factor then i'm going to have to take a risk rather than spend double, or more, on air fares.

Do you think it would be safer for me to get the internal flight the day before and stay in a cheap motel overnight? I haven't considered cab fares but i imagine it's still way cheaper than getting the websites to book the connecting flights.

That would definately be safer, yes. And it'd give you an opportunity to get out of the airport, have a quick look around another city and then get a good nights sleep. The flight the next morning will be a nice easy one then. There's nothing worse than getting off a long flight then having to get back on another one straight away.

The other thing to check with South West is the baggage allowance. Going back to Ryanair (the reason they have a good customer service record is that they make it so impossible to complain. no complaints = good service apparently) you are very limited in what you can carry. I guess South West are similar and it is definately something else to check.

Trust me, right now it all seems like a total pita, but it'll all be worth it when you are finally over there enjoying your 'vacation' :)

You can easily get from Midway to OHare via the "EL." The Orange line Train will take you from Midway to Downtown where you can transer to the Blue Line. I'd say the trip would take about an hour, but I wouldn't want to do it with during rush hour when the trains are packed full of people.

While the trip itself is just an hour or so, I wouldn't want to do it with less than 6 or so hours to spare, for all the reasons the Craig mentioned. I'll also mention that Chicago can be pretty bad for delayed flights, although Flying into Midway is a little easier than OHare in that regard.

I think staying overnight is really your best bet if you end up using a different airline for your internal flight, at the very least it should make that last day a whole lot less stressful.

After reading this extensive thread - let me throw in a couple of other ideas. I'm not sure what your itinerary is in the Chicago/Minneapolis area (did I miss why you want to go there?), but the bulk of what you want to see seems to be in the West. Have you looked at flying over the pole into SFO? Your flying time might be considerably shorter - and you may have some additional carrier and pricing options - and leave Chicago for another trip that might include more east coast things - like Boston, NYC, Wash. DC, etc.

Also, if you are bringing a group - have you looked into the possibility of getting a group fare like the tour operators do? Usually if you have around 10 people, the airlines (or a wholesaler) can cut you a good deal - better than individual tickets.

If you do fly into a west coast gateway like SFO, then your outlined plan has some additional possibilities for a "loop". Add Yellowstone back in, keep the Mt. Rushmore area - lots to do there - we spent 2 weeks just in that area! In addition you could pick-up things like Yosemite (a favorite with young people), San Francisco itself - a great city with lots to do, Death Valley NP, All the Utah NParks, even Lake Tahoe, and much more.

Having traveled in all 50 states (we took a year long trip around the US), I can tell you there isn't much around Omaha - or along that whole portion of the route - if you really end up doing that, I'll give you what I know about the area, but....

You may want to get a copy of Jamie Jensen's Road Trip USA - his guidebook is really good - he picks out fun, quirky places to visit and would be your best bet to find things along various routes.

As to motels, you may want to book some of the major attraction areas, but we didn't on our trip and never got shut out anywhere - although we traveled in an RV, so had the option of camping or motels. Our MAJOR piece of advice to road trippers is to NOT overplan your trip - you miss too many things that you may want to do along the way, although with a limited two week trip, it may be more mandatory to be more structured.

I concur with the $80 per room as a good figure for moderate chains, HOWEVER, almost every city and town has some great older motels (often with more charm) that "fly below the radar" - you only find them when you arrive in a town. Even AAA doesn't list them all, although that is a good place to look - in their tour books. We find that you could pick up a decent motel for in the $40-60 a night range almost anywhere, except the largest cities (ie San Fran) or heavily touristed areas (ie Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc). Bidding on hotels through Priceline is also a good strategy. I always take about 30-40% off a chain motels best advertised rate - and usually get it, unless there is something big going on in that town then.

I'll always happy to answer individual questions off line too - I know a fair amount about most places in the US!

Carol White