Streets and Trips GPS

I have a copy of Micro$oft Streets and Trips 2006 on my desktop PC which I use to get an indication of mileage on my roadtrips. I've always been intruiged by the GPS feature that it offers but have never used it.

Having just ordered a new laptop, I am thinking perhaps I should take it with me on my next trip and make use of the satnav facility. Has anyone used this themselves and is it accurate and reliable?

Also, not having the GPS device to plug into the USB port, I'll have to acquire one of those. Can anyone suggest a reasonable quality device at a reasonable price? I've seen a few on eBay but they're not cheap and, unless I can find something cheaper, I think I'll probably look to buy the 'Streets and Trips 2007 with GPS receiver' pack when I arrive in the US, as it's similarly priced to a stand-alone receiver.

I'm not sure if it's the best deal, but as you suggested, it may be easier/cheaper to buy the updated version of Streets and Trips with the add on GPS. I know I plan to do this when I get a laptop (my next vehicle will be equipped with a mount over the passenger seat. I haven't personally used one, but I enjoy streets and trips enough to consider getting the add on GPS too.

-Brad

I have the Microsoft packet with the GPS antenna. It's accurate but the whole set up is awkward with a laptop. I am assuming I'll take my laptop on any trips I take and using my cell and bluetooth will access my email and perhaps this forum with daily logs(?) I have a Garmin GPS I bought for my bicycle that is terrific but the screen is way too small. It's frustrating because it is so fantastic otherwise. I paid $400 for it. Prior to taking any trips I will pony up for a larger screen portable unit. For my money I'll probably stick with Garmin, I just think their quality is really special.

But I just use it on my home computer and print out the information. This is great for getting on the road but doesn't help much if I want to change my trip while on the road. And my GPS is one for hiking without roadmaps so I can't use it for roadtrips. And, to be honest, I don't want to travel with all those electronics. Part of the appeal for a roadtrip to me is that it helps me break my computer/technology addiction a bit.

Anyway, I have found using VZ Navigator on my cellphone to be quite helpful for routing assistance while on the road. It costs about $10 a month but you can just buy it for the month you're traveling and then cancel. There's no long-term contract.. So the cost is really pretty cheap in comparison to buying a navigating unit. Of course, it does use your minutes but I have a generous plan, no roaming charges in the lower-48, and the minutes don't add up as fast you would think because it doesn't use minutes the entire time it's on. It just uses minutes when it's downloading the route info....just a few seconds, really.

I've really only done this for short routing information, like if I need to find a specific place and have gotten lost. So I've only purchased the $2.99 (or is it $1.99 one-day options when I've really needed it). I haven't used it for major roadtrip planning while on a big roadtrip. But it might be a viable option.

So I'm guess I'm just throwing this out there to see if it appeals to anyone here or if anyone has more experience with it.

I don't know all that much about laptops. Can I get a power adapter for my Dell (Or other laptops?) to run it from my auto?

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Originally Posted by holmancv

I don't know all that much about laptops. Can I get a power adapter for my Dell (Or other laptops?) to run it from my auto?

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Although most laptops run on D/C (similar to that used by your car) they operate on a different voltage and so you may have seen that bulky part of the A/C cord on your Dell power cord (that is transforming the A/C current into a voltage used by your laptop). Anyway, what you need is an inverter to transform the 12-volt current supplied by your vehicle into A/C and then the laptop can plug in there. Here is a great overview of the type of inverters available.

Mark

Thanks for the link to that article, Mark, very informative. I am expecting to take delivery of my new laptop tomorrow and was waiting to discover the power requirements before going to the local store and picking up a transformer that plugs into the cigar lighter. However you have reminded me that we have a small inverter at work, which I will now be stealing for the duration of my trip LOL

Incidently, I've just picked up a GPS device so I am all set :)

I have one of these

It basically allows you to run your laptop from a vehicle without using an inverter. Works well. It can also charge my phone and charged my iPod when I had one. You just buy a new tip for like ~$5-6 for each device. RadioShack sells them also. Have had it for almost 2 years now and love it.

I use a Garmin Legend handheld GPS unit which I use with TOPO!, the US national USGS map data base. As I drive, the GPS unit logs where I go, and I can download my route and visits to a a Topo map of the US. I was able to get 15' topo maps for the whole US for about $50 and for all of California for $50 to the highly detailed 7.5' maps. I typically download specific points of interest and way points from the topo maps to the GPS before I set out, and I've used it to find my way to places in the middle of the night.

Problem with this handheld unit is that it's got only about a 1 1/2" screen, which is too small to look at while driving. But you can set it to a waypoint and it will show a pointer arrow and distance to go which is visible.

Here's an exerpt from my last road trip (this last weekend) to Saguaro National Park near Tucson and Organ Pipe Cactus National Monumment on the way back. On the detailed maps, you can see which side of the freeway you were on... You can even see my short detour to the mine over look in the liittle town of Ajo if you look closely.

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Originally Posted by jesseschulman

It basically allows you to run your laptop from a vehicle without using an inverter.

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Jesse, Thanks for the link. There are two cautions about using these types of products -- which as long as you know about them and don't mind the risk -- are good options for the more expensive inverters/converters....

First is that they are not "truly" universal -- you need to purchase the correct adapter "tip" to plug into the various devices. Second, they provide no line balancing and there is ALWAYS plenty of spare RF and electrical discharges zooming around the powerpoint circuits -- such errant electrical activity can damage sensitive equipment. Which is why I always hook up any of my electrical equipment via a dedicated transformer -- if something untoward happens, the cord is damaged but not the laptop or GPS or etc....

Mark

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Originally Posted by Larrison

I use a Garmin Legend handheld GPS unit which I use with TOPO!, the US national USGS map data base. As I drive, the GPS unit logs where I go, and I can download my route and visits to a Topo map of the US. I was able to get 15' topo maps for the whole US for about $50 and for all of California for $50 to the highly detailed 7.5' maps. I typically download specific points of interest and way points from the topo maps to the GPS before I set out, and I've used it to find my way to places in the middle of the night.

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That is pretty cool. I have got to try that sometime.

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You can even see my short detour to the mine over look in the liittle town of Ajo if you look closely.

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Is there a toggle tool for zooming in on the screen?

Mark

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Originally Posted by Editor

That is pretty cool. I have got to try that sometime.
Is there a toggle tool for zooming in on the screen?

Mark

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Yes there is. The Garmin handheld I use has a nation-wide data base of major roads, cities and landmarks built into it. You can zoom in the screen, down to very close levels (with teh screen showing maybe 100-200' across), or zoom out to show an area several hundred miles across. You can select waypoints from this map screen, although I typically down load my waypoints from a topo map. For example, you can select an exit or intersection from the digital map, and create a waypoint -- then track how far away it is, and in what distance. The limitation is the small screen. Unless you're trying to find a very specific point (such as in geocaching), I typically keep the screen showing an area of 10 miles on a side or so.

I originally got this to use as "digital breadcrumbs" to backtrack a trail, if needed when hiking or driving in the middle of nowhere. But I found the digital trails it sets up are a really cool way to document my travels.

This Garmin handheld is also WAAS-enabled, which allows it to access some of the correction signals for GPS. You can sometimes (not always) get an amazing precision of around 15' for a location.

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Originally Posted by Larrison

Yes there is. The Garmin handheld I use has a nation-wide data base of major roads, cities and landmarks built into it.

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A couple of years ago, Megan bought me a Garmin etrex Vista hand-held GPS and I never could seem to get the hang of using it. How does yours compare with this one? This one shows an accuracy down to 16 feet, but I could never truly duplicate that in the field -- I am reasonably handy with topo maps and I rarely could get the unit to find my location within 100+ yards.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Editor

A couple of years ago, Megan bought me a Garmin etrex Vista hand-held GPS and I never could seem to get the hang of using it. How does yours compare with this one? This one shows an accuracy down to 16 feet, but I could never truly duplicate that in the field -- I am reasonably handy with topo maps and I rarely could get the unit to find my location within 100+ yards.

Mark

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I think mine is pretty close -- I have (if memory serves) an eTrex Legend. I find it works pretty well, and I started as a map & compass orienteering guy. The difference I think is that I start by setting the waypoints I want to find using a computer version of the Topo map, instead of trying to interpolate a position from a paper topo map. (I've found I can also pull a waypoint out of Google Earth as well, using the push pin and just copying the data into the topo waypoint.).

But for repeatability -- leaving a spot, traveling some distance (say 100 miles) and returning -- I've found the GPS handheld unit to give me precision within the error bounds it states. Of course, you can get into situations where you can get different precision levels -- that's dependent upon the number of satellites you see and the WAAS signal. And in one situation I was able to observe multi-pathing which added some error to the signal. (I was in a deep steep sided granite canyon. Since the GPS satellite signals are about microwave frequency, they would reflect off the sheer, flat rock walls of the canyon. As the satellites moved in the sky, you got different reflection paths from their changing geometry, which changed the solution calculated by the GPS. You could actually sit and watch your location change within the error, almost second by second. Pretty bizzare -- and I've only ever seen it once.)

PS -- I added in a close of the recent route through Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. You can see how the tracked route (GPS unit sitting on my dash, essentially) follows the road in, around the NM Headquarters, then out and back on the Ajo Peak Loop Road. Precision is pretty good followin the topo map landmarks. Scale of this is 1 mile from the legend at the bottom fo the pic.

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Originally Posted by Larrison

I think mine is pretty close -- I have (if memory serves) an eTrex Legend.

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yeah, it sounds like they are sister units -- I know she was pretty intense on finding the best unit for me -- but I am still a bit of a luddite and not as willing to tinker endlessly with a piece of gear.

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I find it works pretty well, and I started as a map & compass orienteering guy.

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I used to love doing orienteering -- I was a back-country ranger (USFS) for a while and developed a good sense of direction (something I have more-or-less lost in the subsequent years).

I will try it again and offer my own field tests here. 'Course, it sorta requires I get out of the office someday soon... And I don't know when that can be. I am only two hours from Death Valley and it has been months since I was there....

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(I've found I can also pull a waypoint out of Google Earth as well, using the push pin and just copying the data into the topo waypoint.).

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Yeah, that is pretty clever.

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You could actually sit and watch your location change within the error, almost second by second. Pretty bizzare -- and I've only ever seen it once.)

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We had one of the first-generation GPS units available to the general public back in the early 1990's -- it was huge and the working allowance for errors was about 1/4 mile (and I found it amazing when it could ever find my location in the backcountry).

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PS -- I added in a close of the recent route through Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. You can see how the tracked route (GPS unit sitting on my dash, essentially) follows the road in, around the NM Headquarters, then out and back on the Ajo Peak Loop Road. Precision is pretty good followin the topo map landmarks. Scale of this is 1 mile from the legend at the bottom fo the pic.

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What is the mechanism for getting this print-out (.jpg)?

Thanks again,

Mark

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Originally Posted by Editor

[ ... ] What is the mechanism for getting this print-out (.jpg)?

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I use the Topo! software sold through National Geographic. Basically its the USGS topo maps, with a fairly poor overlay of some of the large scale National Geographic maps. But the topo maps are very good.

The print out is taken from Topo! I went down to the 7.5' map scale display (which isn't quite accurate, since I only have the 7.5' maps for California, and this if in Arizona), and then did the "Export map to disk" command, which gives me the option of scale, moving the printed area around the map, and exported data format (bitmap, GIF, JPG, etc.) That's all I did, other than resizing the image down for the limiations of the forum (300 pixels any side) -- the original is quite a bit clearer.

I use this, for example, for Boy Scout backpacking trips where I'll print out copies of a specific route we'll take and publish via email specific way points for any of the other adults who have GPS units. I can tailor the topo map coverage as is needed (I used to hate the paper maps, as every trail would cross 2 or 3 sections of the paper topos).

A couple of things to note -- for example, the GPS takes a waypoint and stores the location every minute or two. If you look closely at the map you can sort of see these are the blue waypoints. Then the GPS draws the route between these points -- the red line. Since the waypoints are equally spaced by time when the GPS is on, you can get a pretty good estimation of speed as well from the route map -- closely spaced waypoints are slower, wider spaced are faster. On this map you can note from the clustering of the waypoints where I stopped to take pictures and the cluster on the west side of the monument headquarters where I stopped for lunch in their picnic area.

The GPS signals don't penetrate buildings or cars very well. Moreover, it works by taking the signal from 4 satellites and comparing them -- so if you want a good signal, the GPS really needs to see a good chunk of the sky. Putting the GPS unit on the passenger car seat doesn't work really well. Rather than buying an expensive permanent mounting on the top of the dash, I found that an inexpensive "cell phone holder" which clips onto one of the front dash air conditioning vents works well (about $15 at Radio Shack). It holds the GPS facing me, with the antenna pointed at the sky, looking out the front window with about a half hemisphere view of the sky. And it's very conveniently located to plug into the cigarette lighter for power.

It's been a pretty cool tool. On my recent trip, I had located the location of a place I wanted to stop from Google Earth (a store near Tucson), and we navigated to it using the GPS, since I had forgotten to write down the street address or directions. My traveling companion swore we were on the wrong road, that we needed to stop and turn around, but the GPS unit kept pointing straight ahead and counting down the distance. Yep -- we were on the right road.. and we found the store with the GPS showing an offset of 50' between the waypoint I had put it from the street address in Google Earth, and what was on the GPS unit when I parked in front of the place.

The biggest gripe I have about mine, is it uses an old slow serial cable interface with the computer. The new ones use a USB connection, which should work much faster. But for example, on my last trip the GPS waypoint log was over 5000 waypoints. This took about 20-30 minutes to download using the old, slow serial port transfer. FYI -- the unit showed it was about 50% filled up for waypoints wih the 5000 points (3 days of traveling), but I could have saved that set of waypoints to memory and started another set if I had needed to (I did this traveling to the north end of Vancouver Island and back from SoCal).

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Originally Posted by Craig Antill

Incidently, I've just picked up a GPS device so I am all set :)

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And, would you believe it, it doesn't work! :( According to the documentation, I need a 'GPS device with NMEA 2.0 or higher' Apparently NMEA 3.01 isn't higher?! Go figure.

Think I'll stick it back on eBay, along with my old copy of Streets and Trips, and pick up the new version, along with the MS GPS, when I touch ground over there.

Can anyone suggest a good place that would have what I want on the shelf? Walmart? Office Depot?

Okay, I promised Mark that I'd post my thoughts on Microsoft Strees and Trips, so here goes:

I have been using Microsoft Streets and Trips 2006, along with Google Earth, for planning my US roadtrips for around 18 months. I found it easy to use and loved how simple it was to create a driving route, optimise it, add to it, delete stops, schedule rest breaks, etc.

When I bought myself a decent laptop recently I decided that I should investigate the GPS/Satnav facility that it promised. Having finally worked out what type of GPS receiver I needed to operate it, or so I thought, I ordered one online. It wasn't cheap but it was (slightly) cheaper than buying the new package which comes direct from Microsoft bundled with a receiver and, well, I only had a few days til I was flying to I didn't have time to watch for a bargain on eBay.

The receiver arrived in time for my trip and I hurridly plugged it in to my USB port to check that it worked. It didn't. I shouted. And then gave up. I would go in search of the fully bundled package when I arrived in the UK and try and sell the useless receiver (it used a different version of NMEA, whatever that was) on eBay when I got home.

I picked up my rental car, a convertible, and headed off out of the airport with the hood down. Before I'd entered the first stretch of interstate the map that the rental agent had carefully prepared for me had blown out of the open roof! Without paper or electronic map I was on my own. But I made it to my hotel and went off to explore the area.

On my way back to the hotel I spotted an Office Depot and headed over to see if they had the latest version on the shelf. I walked out, a hundred bucks worse off, but with the very latest version of the software. I hurried back to my room and left the software to install whilst I had a shower. By the time I was all fresh and clean the software was installed and up and running.

The next morning I headed out to test it out. I should point out here that I have never been a fan of Satnav systems and positively hate using them unless I have to. But, driving in a country with which I was not overly familiar, whilst on my own, I really did need it. As soon as I left the parking lot it was starting to annoy me: "turn left ahead" was followed by "turn left ahead", "turn left ahead" and... you've guessed it... "turn left ahead", right back into the very parking lot that I had come from.

Not a good start, but I vowed to give it a chance. I looked across to my passenger seat which was occupied, not by an attractive young lady with a map but by my laptop, and decided that the only thing I could do was to head roughly in the direction that I wanted to end up and let it work out a new route from there. This idea worked - several times on this trip the computer would apparently 'get confused' and couldn't actually get itself and, more importantly - me, out of an area.

The only real issue I had with this tactic was that, rather than automatically recalculate a route, as pretty much all satnav systems do, I had to lean across and press F3 to refresh. Not great when you were supposed to be concentrating on driving.

For the rest of the trip I had no real problems, it took me right to ballpark that I had told it to, on the other side of town. My only problem was when I failed to take a turn that it had insisted I take and a few presses of the F3 button later, I was back on track. I did feel a little conspicuous with a laptop sat on my passenger seat, and the hood down, as it led me through some of the streets on 'the wrong side of town' though, and I vowed to only use it when I had the hood up. In a car with a roof this would not have been a problem, of course.

Over the next few days I would use the software extensively and, whilst the F3 routine would become tedious, it was not as tedious as the propensity the software had for crashing as we approached an important point of the journey. Stopping on the side of the interstate was not an option so I had no real choice but to lean over, whilst trying to steer a straight line, reload the software, load the route plan, click the button that tells me not to use it whilst driving (!) and finally realise that I'd just passed the turning. "Off route" it would cry and across I would lean again. F3.

Things got better. And then it got into one of it's 'strops' again and, after twenty five minutes of going round in circles looking for a campground which I was booked into for the night, I finally found it. Well, I found the back (locked) gate. To be fair this was the low point and I was soon redirected to an astonished local who claimed not to have seen anyone but his neighbours use that road for years!

I did find other problems with it, such as in the middle of cities it would lose it's signal or it believing you to be on a service road when on an interstate and directing you accordingly. However, most of these faults, I believe could be put down to a poor GPS receiver. I would be very interested to see how this software works when hooked up to a 'proper' receiver, not the one supplied my Microsoft, but I will never know. I was suitably convinced of the need for a satnav system whilst away from home, so I have bought a TomTom 910 system.

My verdict on Microsoft Streets and Trips 2007 with GPS? Nice try, but it's not there yet. Lots of potential but come back and look at this again later. Maybe by the time they release Microsoft Streets and Trips 2009 with GPS the problems will be resolved.

I'm really not a fan of depending on GPS. Everybody I know who does, express similar problems. Like going to an unused entrance, or getting there by via a strange and complex route no local would every use. I think they have their place but I think, for the most part, I will stay with using S&T for pre-planning purposes and maps for on the road makes more sense. I prefer to have typed up directions from S&T that say simple things like "take exit 82 and go south on I-5" vs. listening to "turn left, turn right, blah, blah" works for me. But I would love to hear how your experience with TomTom sometime.

See this thread for my thoughts on the TomTom Go 910

My friends and I have been extensively using S&T's to plan our 10 day road trip to Rushmore from Los Angeles, so I'll let you know how well it goes. I'll be bringing the laptop with me to help with any last minute changes or diversions should we find any :)

I'll be using a Holux GPSlim 236 bluetooth GPS receiver. I've used the receiver for nearly 2 years now (in Europe and the US) and it's proven to be very reliable and accurate.

I have it paired up using TomTom Go software, but I haven't tried it out with the laptop. I think a lot of problems people experience with the software is due to the GPS receiver not working properly.

In any densely covered area (big buildings like downtown centers etc..) GPS signal will be poor and will greatly effect the software's ability to find your location and navigate you correctly. For places like these, an external antenna is a must. I usually place mine on the roof of the car and string the wire along the weather stripping of the door into the cabin.

- Jonathan

I am keenly looking forward to your report on your experiences with S&T with the external receiver. Have a good trip!

Just a quick note to report that arboreal has found this useful addition to allow you to automatically re-route when you take a wrong turn, rather than having to lean over and hit F3...