Every experienced roadtripper on this board has gotten stuck and/or slid off the road in icy conditions. Here are some of those tales.... Should be good for a chuckle or two.
Mark
Every experienced roadtripper on this board has gotten stuck and/or slid off the road in icy conditions. Here are some of those tales.... Should be good for a chuckle or two.
Mark
great, now not only do i refuse to make the drive across country - i refuse to drive home even - ha! (i added my story to that thread)
I didn't make it clear, but if you do go out I-80 and will be staying on 80 across all or part of Nevada, it seems to me you'd be just as well to take the short stretch of I-84 west from where 80 and 84 split, just inside Utah from Evanston, WY. If you do that, you stay low all the way to Ogden, in the Salt Lake Valley, and it's a short valley run on I-15 down to the I-215 bypass to pick up I-80 on the west side of Salt Lake City. If you were to stay on I-80 from where 80 and 84 meet, you'll keep some elevation around to Park City, then go through Parley's Summit, which is somewhere in the 7,500' elevation range. From Parley's, it's a pretty steep 3 lanes each way drop of +3,000' into Salt Lake City, and there's a ton of commuter traffic from Park City down to SLC, not to mention the SLC traffic as soon as you emerge from Parley's Canyon on I-80. I think the 84-15 South-215-back to I-80 at the SLC airport west of town might be a handful of miles farther, but it's a far easier and safer drive, in my opinion. Since you're in tune to the DOT webcams, check out Utah's on the Park City screen, on down to SLC. It's heavily traveled, to say the least.
Yes, from your description of the Nashville ice storm, I see you have some serious issues with winter driving. Here's what I tell folks about the frequently-cited fears about winter driving here in NC, though: I'd much sooner drive in 6" of dry snow than 1/4 inch of ice. You can pretty much do anything with dry snow if you just use your head and don't try to stop short. There ain't a dang thing you can do with ice other than to stay home.
That said, and despite the short-term icy conditions you and I observed on the MT DOT passes webcams recently, ice is a fairly rare, temporary condition on Western interstates. I just don't have any fear of the possibility of snow while traveling in MT and UT as I am happy to do regularly. Sure, you can get a royal blizzard dumping a couple of feet or more in the passes, and you may have to wait it out somewhere for a few hours or a day, but it's unusual for real snafu problems to arise. When they do arise, you've typically got only yourself to blame for getting stuck in them, as a sharp eye on the forecasts should give you 12-24 hours of warning before the bottom drops out.
Lastly, I'd noted in my last about chains. If you're in a rental truck towing a car or car trailer, my guess is it's a dual rear tire setup (dually) on the truck. I guess you can get chains around the outermost tire on each side of the dually, but I'm not sure I'd even be concerned. Where you need chains, or where they're required, is ascending and descending the passes. For this reason, Western interstates have several hundred-yard long "chain up" areas on each side of a pass. Truckers or others who can't wait it out must put the chains on, drive over the pass, and take them back off. Rather than do that, I'd consider going without chains altogether, and instead wait it out before you get to the pass, have some coffee and a piece of pie, and let the DOT folks do their magic.
Final, final comment- A CB radio would be a great addition to your plans. Radio Shack and other retailers sell rechargable battery powered handheld units for which a magnetic rooftop antenna is also available. You can get road condition reports from the passes from motorists going the other way, or going your way, for that matter. I would not travel out West without one, regardless of the season.
Foy
the route i'm looking at would have me taking I80 west - to just north of SLC - where i'll catch I84 and then take I84 straight through Utah and into Oregeon.
at some point in Oregon, i'll be driving through "Cabbage Hill" which is a 2,000 foot drop over a 6 mile stretch with two switchbacks - fun stuff .... hehehe
Thanks for the suggestion about the CB Radio. In fact, i've already ordered one from Amazon a few days ago - just waiting for it to arrive. It's nothing special, it doesn't seem (Midland 75-875 - i think was the name). It's a handheld, runs on either 9aa batteries or connects to the car battery via the cigarette light, costs about $35. I'm sure there's ~~much~~ better out there, but i didn't want to break the bank on something that i'm totally not familiar with to begin with. So hopefully this model will serve it's purpose, which is all i'm looking for it to do really.
And as far as the choice between using chains in bad weather or simply waiting it out - guess which one i choose - you guessed it, sitting comfortable and warm somewhere, drinking a hot cup of coffee - i'm all for that!
I see no reason why you couldn't take I-90. I understand your fear of getting stuck in a snowstorm, but right now there isn't any snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foy
For what it's worth, I have driven through the mountain passes on the Idaho-Montana border literally hundreds of times both in the summer and in the dead of winter. It is perfectly doable. My brother and his family live outside of Nashville and they have made the drive at Christmas several times.
I live in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho at the foot of the Bitterroot Mountains. If you decide to take the I-90 route you will pass through my town (it would be a good place to stop, by the way, because once you reach me you will have gotten through the "worst" of it, from here it is smooth sailing across eastern Washington...plus it is a really cool place to visit).
It is possible we may get a little snow next weekend, but right now (Nov. 17) everything is perfectly clear - we haven't had a single flake of snow. And if it does snow, Foy was right, the snow removal is excellent. I-90 is very well maintained and the highway department does a really good job of keeping the passes clear. There is lots of traffic on this road, even in the winter (there are a couple of big ski resorts so there is both local and cross country traffic). I have never needed to use my chains on I-90 going over the Bitterroots - not once.
When exactly will you be traveling?
i guess i'm a bit more leery than i might be under normal circumstances - because i'll also have the 22 foot truck towing the car. the truck i've driven before, but it was a smooth drive (no inclement weather) - and the truck with the carrier is new territory for me. I don't believe that adding the carrier will make a tremendous difference - outside the commonn sense stuff ( add even additional room for braking and turning and such, check the straps, lower speed, etc.). That factor further adds to any inclement weather apprehension i have. Even if it was just a car and nothing more, i'd have no desires to be going through bad weather though, of course.
I'll be leaving Nashville on 11/28. It is just now starting to get close enough to be getting weather forecasts for that period and as the day draws closer, i'll have more and more weather info avail to me (barring anything unplanned that blows into an area, which i understand can certainly happen in higher elevations - all i can say is "der - hope not" hehehe).
Whichever route i take, will depend mostly on the forecasted weather. If the weather seems clear for both routes, i think i'll be leaning towards I80/I84/I92/I90. I'm thinking that with less mountain passes than I90up - i'll be less likely to run into any unexpected weather. I've been looking at the webcam for Cabbage Hill everyday and so far, no snow - rain yes, but no snow - so i'm hoping that continues.
Even though I90 may do an excellent job of keeping the passes clear, i'm thinking that if i'm driving through early morning - which may happen - that's when i'd be most subject to icy conditions - before the sun is fully out to melt the stuff - and even a few hours of icy conditions - would be potentially nerve rattling. So, i can't control the weather, but i'll do what i can to control getting into that situation in the first place.
The tire chains, i have them - figuring as another poster said (whether on this thread or another, i can't exactly remember) that hopefully having them, will be my insurance not to need them - ha! I hear it's good to have living in Washington anyhow, so i'll just keep them when i get there.
so, as the departure draws ever so closer, and i quite obsessively stalk the weather, like a cat lurking behind it's prey..hehehe...
at this point - I80, which was my favored route due to the lack of mountain passes - looks to be the most inclined for snow during late next week and weekend.
I90 is looking better then I80, a couple of areas look suspect though, but it looks to be safer than I80.
Another route i had not previously thought of, I94. I94 looks to be, for the most part - predicted to be dry during that stretch. It's a bit further north but would only add about an extra hour or two of total trip travel time. My biggest concern with I94 is the area it runs through looks to be hit up with some pretty frigid temperatures.
So, for all the road veterans out there, i ask you this - if the current predictions hold true and I94 continues to hold better chance for clear weather than I90 (until they merge together) - are there any concerns I should be leery of given the low frigid temperatures?
i'll still be monitoring the weather much between now and departure because much can change in that time - but i'm trying to figure in advance...
thank you...
Its got to get down pretty cold before you run into some serious travel problems, and I don't see any place where you would be even close to that. In fact, I don't see any place in the lower 48 that's expected to even get below zero, even at night during the next 6-10 days!
Too cold can actually be a good thing, because there does get a point where it really becomes too cold to get any major snow. However, I don't see any place where it will be that cold, I'm just seeing some temps that would be pretty common in late mid-late december in the northern plains (a little below normal for the end of november).
Predicting weather even this far out is still pretty close to a crapshoot, however, the National Climate Prediction Center is actually showing above normal precipitation across the North Dakota and Montana.
Right now, I'd still say that I-80 is looking to be far and away your best option. If there was a strong likelyhood of storms on I-80 and I-90 that you could avoid by using I-94, I'd say the extra 100 or so miles would be worth it, but I don't think its makes much sense with how the maps look right now.
i did make it to seattle. i could go on and on about the trip so for brevity's sake - i'll try to keep this post as short and sweet as possible.
i have a personal blog that i have to update with the complete indepth details of the trip - if anyone's interested you can find it at
happytheclown37.blogspot.com
again, i have a lot of catching up to do on the blog because there's so much stuff to write and there was hardly any internet access on the trip, with limited access to have time to blog anyhow.
****
First time i drove the penske truck with trailer (truck and trailer was empty) i was nearly freaked by the thumping sound and vibrations the trailer makes against the truck when going downhill. ~~~However~~~, once the truck is fully loaded and the car is loaded on that trailer - the sound and the vibrations become pretty much completely non-existent (thank God - not taking the lord's name in vain, literally - thank God).
i learned how to pump diesel at a truck stop for the first time - it's not difficult to do but if you've never done it before - you have to have someone show you. If you're pumping diesel at a regular gas station, it's the same as pumping regular gas. *HINT* if using a regular gas station - look for the "green" pump - that's the diesel pump. I have an interstate guidebook (which lists all exits and which stations have diesel). If you don't have that, when getting off at an exit for gas, be sure the it says "diesel" at the bottom (for example, the sign will say "BP Gas - 4 miles" but just below "BP" it will say diesel). Not all gas stations have diesel and many many don't - so just know beforehand. (this only applies to a vehicle that uses diesel, of course).
****************
I took I80 with the assumption that would be the least mountaineous (is that a word?) route
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Drove from Nashville to St. Joseph, MO
I24 West ~~to~~ I57 North ~~to~~ I64 West ~~to~~ I70 West ~~to~~ I29 North).
-- there is a lot of "spot" construction on the route above, forcing both lanes of traffic into one. Most times that didn't affect the flow of traffic, but it can be a pain.
-- only major cities on that route are St. Louis and later, Kansas City. ~~Always~~ take a "by pass" when going from one interstate to another - near a major city. I missed that bypass in Kansas City (going from I70 to I29). I should have taken bypass 435, but instead if changed interstates in downtown kansas, with a big arse truck and a trailer, and the lanes jump around ~~a lot~~, plus it was dark (thank gosh it was late, so traffic wasn't bad). Needless to say, do yourself a favor - always take the by-pass routes (i took a bypass in St. Louis but i don't remember the highway number).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drove from St. Joseph, MO to Laramie, WY
I29 North to Iowa 2 to NE 2 to I80 West
-- was very lucky, for that day at least - beat all of the bad weather that was coming our way (meaning, we got to Laramie before the weather got there)
-- taking Iowa 2 to NE 2 instead of taking I29 straight up to I80 - saves about 50 miles. It is a two lane road but the driving was easy - except we did lose a small bit of time when driving directly through Lincoln, NE.
-- Nebraska was the absolute easiest state to drive - even in the truck - i had no problem coasting at 70mph. It's an extremely straight drive. When you get towards the western edge of Nebraska, you start seeing some hills and rocks (nothing major - kinda subtle) and start ascending on the interstate but the ascend is extremely gradual and subtle - you absoultely have no idea that you're ascending that amount that you actually are.
-- just before you hit Laramie, Wyoming (~~approx~~ about 20-25 minutes west of Cheyenne) there is a mountain drop - be prepared. It's not super steep - but you want to be prepared for the descent because it sort of sneaks up on you. When you hit that drop, try to have you speek in check. Once you go down the drop, you're basically in Laramie. Elevation at that drop is 8,640 feet - but again, i was ~amazed~ because nothing in my gradual ascent would have led me to believe that i actually climbed that far up. Elevation in Laramie is about 7,200 feet - or something akin, so yeah, the mountain drop just before Laramie - it's a good sized one, have a good controlling speed, be prepared, and you'll be fine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drove from Laramie, WY to Rock Springs, WY
I80 West
-- weather caught up with us, when we woke up - although it wasn't snowing - there was snow/slush on the ground
-- headed out on I80 West - at first the driving was fine. Soon thereafter - the interstate was a 3/4 sheet of various layered snow/ice - NOT fun. Just went really slow and tried to avoid braking when at all possible. Sometimes had to cross from one lane to another, depending on the lane that had the better road conditions - i was surprised the highway was kept open under those conditions - maybe i'm just too wimpy. The roads cleared up and were perfect for another half hour and then because the same snowy/icy covering. Traffic actually came to a near standstill - no accidents i don't believe (thank gosh) just weather slowing everyone down (which was inevitably a good thing). The road got better just east of Rock Springs but by then it was getting late (we got a late start to the day to begin with). We got a motel in Rock Springs. With the mountains covered in snow in the background, it was absolutely beautiful !!! (didn't make the prospect of driving any the more fun though).
-- basically, did about 5 hours of driving that day to make it only about 200 miles - but at least we got that far - safely !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drove from Rock Springs, WY to Ontario, OR
I80 West ~~to~~ US 30 ~~to~~ I15 North ~~to~~ I86 West ~~to I84 West
Based on a tip we got from a truck driving friend - he told us ~~not~~ to take I80 all the way through Wyoming because of what's referred to as "The Three Sisters Mountains" - which i believe is just east of Evanston, WY (just before the WY/UT state line). Supposedly this region has not one, not two but three major descents and given that i was driving a big heavy truck w/trailer and inexperienced at that - it was thought best for me to avoid that - a logic i didn't wish to argue with :P
Instead, about half hour/45 minutes (if that) we caugh route US 30. This route it a two lane highway in most stretches (but does have some four lane sections). It does goes have a couple of mountain descents - but they were relatively calm (5% grade for about 3 miles, etc). If you go in w/a slow speed, drop your gears and alternate your brakes (meaning - don't ride the brakes, just tap them as needed for maybe 5 seconds, then let go for 5 to 10 seconds, then tap again as needed, etc) you should be fine. There was a bit of ice on this route in one small section, it wasn't for a very long stretch but it did make me apprehensive.
-- US 30 goes from WY straight into Idaho. It was very windy in Idaho for some stretches - very unsettling to be in a truck and the wind just sort of swooshing you to the side a bit - needless to say, i dropped my speed to maintain better control.
-- drove through Boise, ID. Wow - it was nightime but we could tell it was a very sprawled out city (who would have thunk that for Boise, huh? hehehe). Actually there was ~~a lot~~ of urban sprawl in Idaho because even 10-15 minutes beyond Boise, it was still city/suburban feel. Finally we made it to the ID/OR state border and into Ontario, OR. We thought this would have been a small dot on the map but suprisingly, there was a bit of life to this town - little mall, lots of stores/restaurants - much more than i expected
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drove from Ontario, OR to Longview, WA
I84 West ~~to~~ bypass 205 North (near Portland) ~~to~~ I5 North
~~ Oregon -BY FAR- was the most mountaineous state we drove through. Until we hit the Columbia River Gorge area - it was constant up the mountain, down the mountain, around the mountain, ascending, descending - no exaggeration - if you drive this route - just be prepared. You ~~will not~~ be maintaining any great high speeds through this stretch. Whereas the first couple of days - we did about 650 (roughly) miles per day, once you get to the more mountain type terrain - and ....trust me on this .... 500 miles is absolutely a full day's drive - you'll want to cater for that.
~~ scariest part of all, something that i did research on - CABBAGE HILL. I can't describe Cabbage Hill to those that haven't seen it - it's beyond description. It's a major descend, with loops, and it's 6 miles of driving (although the last mile or so a very straight descend w/o any loops). You'll see one warning before you approach the hill, then a few minutes later you'll see yet ..another warning.. Approach the hill with your speed in check (meaning, don't approach the descend while driving 70mph). Drop your gear. Use the braking method i described above. God was in our favor - there was no inclement weather during our descend. Just a day before - that same hill had snow and patches of ice - oh my God (not said in vain) - i cannot even begin to imagine !!! Just trust me when I say that you have to see Cabbage Hill to appreciate it. The views are astronomical but if you're a driver instead of a passenger, don't even think of looking at the view (lest you become part of the view yourself).
~~ finally descended Cabbage Hill. Was so relieved, but now had to deal with incredibly strong winds. The further we got from the bottom of the mountain, the less the winds were an issue. But close to the mountain - my gosh, someone has obviously p*ssed in mother's natures corn flakes!!! Again, i dropped my speed (to about 45/50mph) to ensure good control when the wind would come to take my truck for a ride.
~~ driving along the Columbia River Gorge is so beautiful - just hard to appreciate when you're nervous. There are curves in the drive but kinda subtle curves, nothing major. Halfway into the drive through the gorge, it got dark out. On the more straightforward parts of the drive - even though it was night, it was easy enough to see. On other parts, it was completely dark, plus a bit rainy/drizzly. Now, the speed limit there is 65mph for cars and 55 mph for trucks - that's (obviously) under ideal conditions. It was slightly rainy, totally dark - so i had to drop my speed from 35/45mph to be able to account for and handle the drive - there were cars and semi's passing me doing obviously 55/60mph - i don't know how!!!
~~ we would have pushed through to seattle BUT due to a fierce weather storm that passed throught the pacific northwest, I5 was closed down for a 20 mile section (due to interstate flooding - under 10 feet of water in some spots, from what i read). So, we were stuck - only two hours from Seattle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 6 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Went nowhere fast. It was ok, didn't mind catching my breath from all that driving. Interstate was still closed. We hoped it would open Wednesday.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DAY 7 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm, it's now Wednesday - not only was the interstate still not open, but they said it wouldn't open until Thursday evening - at the earliest! ouch! That was too long to wait so.........
Backtracked.....took I5 South ~~to~~ Bypass 205 South ~~to~~ I84 East ~~to~~ I82 West ~~ to I90 West
Thank gosh the weather was phenomenal - so was able to breeze through the stretch going over the Columbia River Gorge. Drove all the way east to catch I82 and took that into Washington. I82 has some mountain driving, the ups, downs, arounds, not too bad but definitely noticeable grades.
Caught I90 going west, mostly uneventful. Hit Ellensburg, WA and it was just about dark. At this point was only about 1 1/2 hours east of Seattle. I didn't want to continue driving because i knew i had to go through Snoqualmie Pass and didn't relish doing that in the dark. In the same sense - i didn't want to camp out while so close so...i pushed through. Going through Snoqualmie was ok. Again, it's dark and not fun going through a mountain pass in the dark, but i kept my speed low.
Finally...............!!!! made it to Seattle (couple of days ago). Funny thing is that lots of Seattle interstate driving (like around Redmond, Bellevue, 405, etc) is very hilly with ups and downs too - but it's SO much easier and more enjoyable to negotiate in a car!!!
and........believe it or not, the above was the short version of my trip !!! but does pretty much account for all the non personal stuff so it covers the jist.
if anyone has any questions - please feel free to ask.
Thanks for all of the detail -- I am sure it will be helpful to others!
Mark