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One other thought. The Trail ridge road is the highest continous paved road in the USA, but 60 miles west of Denver is the Highest paved road in the USA. Formerly known as Mt Evans scenic byway, it's now called The Mount Blue Sky scenic byway which rises up over 14000ft. You'll have the bragging rights over the lowest point in the USA at Badwater, so you could add the highest (paved) point!
I would simply note that as a private pilot flying unpressurized planes, i was encouraged (by the FAA) to use supplemental oxygen above 10,000 feet MSL and REQUIRED to use it above 14,000 feet.
AZBuck
Thanks for the continued input, folks!
All hotels now booked and looks like the route is now largely locked in bar certain intentionally spaced days where we might choose to skip a visit or two and re-route if the desire takes us. With regard the extra day we have decided to take that before heading in to Denver thus giving us an extra day in the Colorado Springs area which will allow us to slow down (or squeeze more in if we haven't burned ourselves out by then!)
The Cave of the Winds stop is one that I looked at previously actually however my other half thinks that the kids are a little young still for some of the more adventurous attractions there. We will keep it in reserve though and see how she feels when we are away from the grown up/responsible parent routine just a little!!
The Mount Evans/Blue Sky suggestion is one with legs, for sure. I had seen it before and thought it looked interesting but didn't appreciate its location in relation to where we were planning to be. I will look at getting a reservation for that and we can decide on the day depending upon the weather at the time. It looks like a drive to terrify the passengers which sounds fun!
I am wondering a little about the Hoover Dam tours if anyone has any input. We don't have that much time to spend there really so is it worth going for the full guided dam tour or is the guided power plant tour likely to be sufficiently enticing for a couple of kids? It is a shame that you cannot book the full tour in advance and can only do this on the day; does anyone know if it is worth the risk in waiting for the day to buy tickets? Perhaps you can upgrade the standard tickets on site if there is availability? Sorry for all the questions but I cannot really find an answer to that online.
This is how we are looking for the last few days now:
Thursday 15th August – Day 19:
Great Sand Dunes NP
Drive onwards to Colorado Springs (+/- 2.5 hours)
Overnight accommodation booked: Hyatt Place Colorado Springs/Garden of the Gods
Friday 16th August – Day 20:
Garden of the Gods
Drive up Pikes Peak (reservation required)
Overnight accommodation booked: Hyatt Place Colorado Springs/Garden of the Gods
Saturday 17th August – Day 21:
Drive to Denver (+/- 2 hours)
18:10 Colorado Rockies vs San Diego Padres at Coors Field (tickets booked 17/1)
Overnight accommodation booked: Hotel Indigo Denver Downtown Union Station
Sunday 18th August – Day 22:
Drive out toward Rocky Mountain NP via Peak to Peak Highway (+/- 3 hours)
Drive up Mount Blue Sky Scenic Byway – weather dependant (reservation required – available 30 days in advance)
Explore Rocky Mountains NP (reservation required - available 1st July 8am MDT)
Overnight accommodation booked: Worldmark Estes Park
Monday 19th August – Day 23:
Drive Trail Ridge Road and Old Fall River Road (reservation required - available 1st July 8am MDT)
Overnight accommodation booked: Worldmark Estes Park
Tuesday 20th August – Day 24:
Morning in Estes Park
Drive back to Denver Airport (+/- 2 hours)
Take route 34 east through Big Thompson Canyon
Stop at Buc-ee’s in Johnstown
Fly Denver – London (depart 18:35)
As you can see we are going to take the Peak to Peak Highway from Black hawk up to Estes Park so there will be a slight bit of backtracking with Mount Evans but nothing much really. I did wonder about driving through Berthaud Falls and up to Grand Lake before driving east across through RMNP to Estes Park however we quite fancy to drive the Old Falls River Road/Trail Ridge Road loop so we were planning to do that on day 2. Not sure if this is the best solution though; is the Peak to Peak Highway as good as we read? It makes sense on a map to go Denver > Mount Evans > Berthaud Falls > Grand Lake > Trail Ridge Road > Estes Park perhaps but, well, undecided at the moment?
I have done the tours several times -- I think the Full Tour $30 is the best deal at the dam. And I think your kids will find it very cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKCraig
From experience, they found that there were a lot of no-shows when booking ahead. I would say, if you take the time, get there early and try and get the full tour. If not available, the shorter tour is fine too.
You can ask Dave and Lezli -- they did the tour with us.
Mark
Great, will definitely try and do that as it does sound good. I was just concerned about not being able to pre-book tickets for that. I finally found one mention on this website which suggests that, should we book the $15 tour tickets we will 100% get on that but we can hopefully upgrade these tickets on site with a bit of luck.
Quote:
The Guided Power Plant Tour and Self-Guided Visitor Center Tour are both upgradeable on-site if you would like to change your ticket type.
Yes it was well worth it and the views from the bridge are great too!Quote:
You can ask Dave and Lezli -- they did the tour with us.
Yeah that's pretty cool. The Old Falls road isn't recommended in an RV, so we didn't get to see it. The rental companies don't tend to like their vehicles taking to unpaved roads either. But what they don't know.....;-)Quote:
quite fancy to drive the Old Falls River Road/Trail Ridge Road loop
I've never been busted for it yet... amazes me given some of the things that we have gotten up to in a rental car. Then again I do recall being involved with a race team who was competing at Mondello Park around 20 years ago. Being an 'overseas' race some of the team flew in rather than driving and one of the trucks was left at base to keep ferry costs down meaning that we had reduced spares. Unfortunately one of the cars went on its roof in qualifying and we needed certain parts to get it back in the game which were not available to us. Fortuitously one of the engine technicians had a rental car which was the same model. I presume that Hertz at Dublin airport were surprised to arrive for work early Monday morning to discover a car that had been returned in their absence missing its windscreen, bonnet, half the suspension and various other bits and pieces. In all honesty I am not sure how the guys got access to the site in an articulated race truck to push the wreck off the tail lift! I'm not sure if the gold insurance package covered everything in that instance (!) but I think that it perhaps goes some way to explaining my belief that most car rental people are not going to care too much about a little bit of dust and maybe the tracking being off a little should we decide to take diversion along a dusty road :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
Although that is (or can be) different from on the ground, depending on what one does prior to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by AZBuck
When you are/were flying, you were going from low elevations to that height very quickly, where someone touring in the area at elevations of 5,000 feet plus for a day or three will acclimate a bit more before hitting those 14,000 foot points.
Sorry, I must disagree. Acclimatizing to high altitudes takes far more than a few hours or even a couple of days. Think weeks to months. Also in a plane, one can easily and safely descend at 1,000 ft/min, while in a car to descend that fast on a road with a 3° slope would require you to drive at about 50 mph. 50 mph will be well above the speed limit on a mountainous semi-paved road. Anyone driving roads at these altitudes should be familiar with the symptoms of hypoxia and be at least willing to turn back if they start experiencing such difficulties on the ascent.
AZBuck
It does NOT take months (or even weeks, maybe a week to week and a half at most).Quote:
Originally Posted by AZBuck
On that trip I had previously posted, they would fly (in a normal plane, of course) from NY State (near the Hudson, so barely above sea level) to Denver (5,280 feet), then often (when it was open) drive up either Pikes or this Mt. Evans the following day.
Everyone would feel weak (but no one ever had physical issues that were dangerous).
Near the end of the loop (10-12 days later), they would be in Rocky Mountain National Park and hike up (or as far up as weather allowed) Long's Peak, which involves far more effort than driving up the first day did, with none of the impacts that were felt the first day.
Obviously, if someone only has a couple days, they won't be as good as someone who has 10 or 12, but still will be better than these people were 24 hours after leaving NY, with only one overnight at Denver type elevation (that is, it gets better bit by bit, not zero improvement for a week then suddenly you are good).
At my age I am thinking that any physical exertion is likely to lead to hypoxia type symptoms so we will certainly be taking it easy! In all seriousness, we will watch out for it and not try to be the hero so thanks for the reminder.
Hi, thank you for your warm welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
I guess in my case, I’m just a bit worried that I might miss out on some of the places I want to see or feel too rushed to enjoy them.
Hi davwill! It is certainly a consideration however we are aware that it's not possible for us to both see everything that we'd like and spend enough time at each stop to maximise our experience. That said I think we are looking at the bigger picture and we will be taking the entire trip as a whole as 'the experience' firm in the knowledge that we'll not see everything along the way. To go from sea to sky, as it were, and try and experience as many different things as we can along the way. It is a struggle to balance everything, of course, but I think that we are pretty happy with the end result thanks to the help on this website.
Craig,
Went to the Hoover Dam yesterday. The Power Center Tour is not as interesting as the main tour, but it's still OK.
https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...tor_repair.jpg
Rotor being repaired on the Nevada side generators.
https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...r_from-Dam.jpg
View of the Colorado River from the dam.
https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...m_0302_HDR.jpg
Dust and rain storm in Red Rock Canyon.
Mark
Thanks Mark. I think we will definitely aim to upgrade our tickets when we arrive if we can as it seems silly to go all that way and not do something memorable. It still grates that I went all those years ago and didn't do anything other than drive over the dam, get out, have a quick look and then go again. Oh, the guy I was with did throw his (no longer needed) wedding ring in to the water but I think the tour would have been a far better use of our time!
Main differences -- although having not been on the main tour in a couple of years I don't know how up-to-date my info is.
The power site tour uses elevators installed in the late 1990's to access the Nevada side Generator Room. And the access is through solid rock that that hacked through to get to one of the penstock pipes and bypass pipes.
The full tour uses elevators actually in the dam and accesses different parts within the dam itself to then access the generators on the Arizona side-- I believe they go all the way to the bottom still.
The full hard-hat tour is no longer offered (post 9-11) and it was really something! I think that is the one you could have done. I have done it several times. One used to be able crawl through a narrow passage to actually look out the dam.
The most amazing thing to me--still is how nice and "upmarket" the finishing is inside the dam. The Bureau of Reclamation has offices inside the dam that rival any office in any big city.
Walking across the bridge still provides the best view of the dam and that is worth doing no matter what you decided to do about the tours.
Here is that view of David Gomm again (from the bridge):
Mark
And I see that the main tour still includes access to the ventilation shaft.
But it's possible that no one is being allowed to go through the dam to the Arizona side anymore. That might have been only for the hard hat tour. -- I did some more research and it looks like access to those lower tunnels is no longer available to the general public. The access to the river level at the Arizona side is no longer offered. (That was all pre-911)
So, on that basis, I am not sure that the main tour is sufficiently interesting. The main benefit of the less expensive tour is to access the visitor center and see that view. The entire area is under reconstruction right now and it's hard to tell if access to the visitor center will remain only to ticketed visitors.
Thank you for the input, Mark, I will try and report back on what we discover when we get there however, if anyone else has been on the big tour recently, perhaps they might like to advise if they felt it worth the upgrade. Thanks all!
Craig,
I have thought about it some more. I don't think the power station tour is worth the price.
What I recommend is:
a) driving across the dam and parking and looking down the dam face and at the bridge
b) if the visitor center is open (without a ticket) the views are great
c) walking across the bridge for a view of the dam and canyon
But if the only tour that is available is the power plant -- it's not really a dam tour. And I am no longer recommending it to anyone.
Mark
Craig,
I was back at the Hoover Dam again yesterday, and I captured the following photo to illustrate what I was referring to in the post above:
https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...lant_arrow.jpg
See the black line near the lighter cylinder at the top of the dam?
The cylinder is the elevator that was built in the late 1990's to take visitors from the visitor center down to the Nevada Power Plant. It is basically a straight shot through sold rock and then visitors walk to a view platform to see the Nevada Power Plant and then back up the elevator. One never actually gets into the Hoover Dam on this tour.
The main tour goes down the historic elevator in the dam -- which is a lot more interesting and then over to the Nevada Powerplant.
So, to recap.
I don't think the "Power Plant Tour" is a good use of time on limited day for seeing stuff. If you could get the fuller tour, it would be worth it.
But you can see alot by doing the free stuff -- driving over the dam. Parking and seeing it from the Arizona side. Then driving back to the bridge viewing lot and then walking along the bridge from the Nevada side to the Arizona side. I captured the view of the dam (above) from the bridge walkway.
--> And you don't have to pre-purchase the Power Plant tour -- hoping for an upgrade. Just wait until you get there. If the main tour is available, you can purchase when you go through security. I wouldn't pre-pay the Power Plant Tour hoping for an upgrade--they are either available or they are not!
Mark
And a little-known fact about the dam.
https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...lant_arrow.jpg
See those brownish-streaks running down the face of the dam? (above)
That's rust.
But not rust from the iron inside the dam...
Shortly after the Hoover Dam was completed, the Bureau of Reclamation was trying to take PR photos of the dam and the face was too white -- for the cameras-of-the-day to capture any definition.
So they hired scalers to descend down the face of the dam and pound iron nails into the wall--to create rust-so that the relative size of the dam wall would be easier to capture on film.
As you can see, it worked well.
One side effect of the those nails... Over the years, most of the them have completely rusted away, (as was the intention) but a couple of them are still in there. One of the tall tales (that is apparently false) was shared with me was that during the filming of the Golden Eye Bond movie starring Pierce Brosnan, a stuntman was rappelling down the face of the Hoover Dam became stuck on one of those exposed nails and had to be rescued. I have told that story to dozens of people.
But the reason for the streaks is still true!Quote:
Turns out-- I should have fact-checked the story. The dam that was used in that movie was not Hoover Dam -- it was the Verzasca dam in Europe
Here is a 1941 photo without the rust streaks!
Other little known things about the dam. Much of the floors INSIDE THE DAM are beautifully finished with Terrazzo floors and walls. Several of the engineers have offices inside the dam. (no windows, of course, but beautiful light fixtures.) Some of the Terrazzo designs still found in the dam have been reproduced in the visitor center. Here are images of those designs.
Thanks for the update, Mark, appreciated, will hold off on the tour tickets until we get there. Like the story too!
Do you know if they still do the daily 'gunfight' thing in Oatman? If we do not spend the time at the dam we may make our way there instead if they do!
Craig,
As far as I know, the Oatman Ghost Rider Gun Fighters perform a gunfight performance at 1:30 and 3:30 PM Arizona local time.
I would still recommend a visit to the dam -- just to see it. -- Just not the tour.
Mark
Thank you. Sadly I don't think we'd get to Oatman that early if we went. We'll definitely be going to the dam, for sure.
More bad news for your plans to drive CA-1.
Recent rains have been tough on this road!
.Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO — Authorities urged motorists to avoid California’s scenic Highway 1 after a section of the coastal route collapsed during an Easter weekend storm, forcing closures and stranding motorists near Big Sur, authorities said
Yes, just been reading about the latest and figured we'll need to re-route away from CA-1. It is what it is and it just opens up other options. Mother nature cannot be out-manouvered.
Source: https://bigsurkate.blog/Quote:
A final repair design has been completed for the Regent’s Slide at PM 27.8. Surveys of the site indicate that the amount of material that will need to be brought down is in the range of 300,000 cubic yards. By comparison, slides in the winter of 2023 at Dani Creek, Gilbert’s, and Mill Creek, averaged in the range of 30,000 cubic yards.
Initial estimates indicate that once work begins at Regent’s Slide it will take 100 working days to complete the repairs and open the highway.
Sure looks like game over for that plan then...
Wow, that was a great link. Excellent photos and reports really detailing everything.
Yep, not going to happen again soon.
Mark
Not sure if Google is showing blockage individually or if the road closure icons are arbitrary however it clearly doesn't look amazing out there right now!!
In relation to our own trip I have looked at our options and I can see that we are committed to Monterey as that accommodation is not something that can be cancelled/refunded. We can cancel the stay at San Simeon if necessary for a full refund.
I think these are the three options that I am going to put to the family later:
- Leave Monterey and head inland via the 101 instead spending two nights at San Simeon as planned. Possible adding an extra stop en route to fill out the time a little given it looks to be around a three hour drive rather than a full day along the coast road?
- Head inland from Monterey to visit Kings Canyon/Sequoia - I am thinking that the bigger trees will be something that the kids might well have an interest in but I think that it takes a bit of the balance/variety away from the trip in removing the time at the beaches/coast and making it all about national parks throughout the entirety of the trip.
- Scrap the southern element altogether and head across through Yosemite and then out to Death Valley via Tioga Road. Whilst they loved it last year I am not sure a repeat would be as enjoyable and see the point above about it becoming too much national parks?
Any other thoughts or suggestions that I am missing?
All 3 are good options. Kings canyon and Sequoia NP are pretty spectacular, as are all National parks, and IMO would make a great addition to the trip. (Would be my preferred option) One other option would be to simply stay another night in Monterey and visit the beach, Aquarium and maybe do the 17 mile drive, then break the journey to Death valley with an overnight stop, perhaps with a drive through Sequoia included.
Dave
You could still go to San Simeon - just take 101 to Paso Robles then 46 to Cambria and the PCH. San Simeon isn't far north of Cambria and that stretch of the PCH should be open.
To my surprise we seem to be erring toward the Sequoia inland idea despite the earlier insistence that the coast was a must!. It confuses me sometimes it has to be said. So much easier planning for a solo trip. I miss those days in many ways!!
That is a great tip on spending the time in the car itself. Will try to keep that in mind when planning my own trip soon. I just joined, so finding a lot of great tips here.
Just printing out various documents for this trip as we are getting closer and I note that the car rental company documents (Avis booked through Holiday Autos) require an International Drivers Permit. In all the times I have visited I have never had one of these and it looks a bit of a PITA to get one in all honesty. Am I misunderstanding something, have I missed it previously or is this a a new requirement?
I have never needed one, but we haven't visited for over 4 years. YIKES!! Could it be that it's for non English licences for translation purposes? Best to check with Avis though.
A quick check on the Gov site says you don't need one, but if an old paper licence is all you have you will need photo ID. Not a problem with your passport to hand.
Yes, that is what I always thought but the paperwork does seem to insist upon it. I guess I will have to try and get in touch to make certain as I can do without arriving there to find out it is a company policy for some reason. I did look on the government website but it does make an exception for it possibly being required for insurance reasons so who knows! I guess unless they confirm in writing I'm gonna have to get one to be safe urgh
Well I finally tracked down a place that could do.menone of these ridiculous pieces of paper today. I don't mind the £5.50 I was charged but the visiting multiple places 10 or 12 miles between each was tedious! Third time lucky anyway. At least I can head over knowing full well that it won't be looked at but at least I have that covered just in case.
Reserved timed entry tickets for Rocky Mountain national park yesterday. The site (recreation.gov) was horrible and kept dying. Had to register multiple accounts before I got one to.go through. Is this normal or just bad luck? Bit nervous about booking the Mesa Verde tour tickets in a few weeks. This time iit kept telling me I could only reserve one ticket.per day... is this going to be the same for MVNP? Or is it possible to book two different tours on the single day on there?
Craig,
I just rented a car in Canada. Similar "requirement" but I don't have an international license and no one asked me about it.
Mark
I fully expect it to have been a waste of time and energy but one less thing to worry about. Silly thing is it is basically apiece of paper with a passport photo stapled to it. Complete nonsense!
Oh, yeah. I think they (National Car Rental) did ask for my passport when I arrived. It was a tiny airport and so they didn't have the option of simply choosing a car and going. I had to "check-in" at the desk. I haven't "checked-in" at a National Car agency in more than 20 years. It was sort of a novel experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Sedenquist
Mark
I've only been asked for an IDP once, and that was renting a campervan from a small company in Spain, and they only asked for it because their insurance required it.
I actually can't imagine that you'll actually be asked for one, and I suspect the warnings that you need one are more form letter language to cover themselves, especially for customers coming from non-english/european counties.
People tend to forget that all an IDP doesn't actually give you any legal rights - those are governed by treaty - the IDP just translates your home license into multiple different languages. As long as you're still using English over there in England, you really should be fine.