Strikes me as a lot of backtracking to head from Bryce back to Page and then via North Rim, to Zion. There must be a more economical way to design the Utah part of the trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
Lifey
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Strikes me as a lot of backtracking to head from Bryce back to Page and then via North Rim, to Zion. There must be a more economical way to design the Utah part of the trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
Lifey
I think that would be the most economical way and the only 'Back tracking' would be a 20 mile stretch back to Mt Carmel Junction. You could head to Page after GC and before Monument valley, but that would only save a few miles and you wouldn't get to drive to Marble canyon without making it more miles. [Don't mind being proved wrong though.]
What about weather? Can it be a factor in a decision which way we take the loop? Is there any possibility for waterfalls to still flow in Yosemite in late June?
I've been looking at Bryce Canyon and Capitol Reef the whole time but can't decide if it's a good idea (and how to) to include them in the itinerary.
Yes. I got some help behind the wheel. Thank god :)
How about this for an idea:
LA to South Rim (via Joshua Tree?), then up to Page, the North Rim, Zion/Bryce/Capitol Reef, then over to Arches/Canyonlands, then down to Natural Bridges/Monument Valley/Mesa Verde, and then continue the rest of the CO/NM leg as originally planned. After NM, continue back on I-40, until cutting up to Vegas, and then finish with Yosemite, Sequoia, SF, and down the coast to return to LA?
That might be too much stuff now, but other than the stretch of I-40 between Kingman and Williams, you wouldn't be doing any backtracking - and even that area you could change up by going to the Grand Canyon via the Phoenix area or by taking advantage of historic route 66 through that area.
The waterfalls usually flow through June and peak flow is usually in May with the snow melt but the Sierra's have had a lack of snow in recent years which could be a factor.Quote:
What about weather? Can it be a factor in a decision which way we take the loop? Is there any possibility for waterfalls to still flow in Yosemite in late June? ]
You could have another month and wouldn't be able to fit everything in, so unfortunately you have to pick and choose. We all start out with way to much and then have to cut back, but it's always a great excuse for another trip !Quote:
I've been looking at Bryce Canyon and Capitol Reef the whole time but can't decide if it's a good idea (and how to) to include them in the itinerary.
I don't know that it has been brought up yet, but if you belong to whatever auto club is the equivalent of AAA here in America, you will have some reciprocal benefits, and it might well help you with eliminating those extra charges the rental car companies always want to saddle you with. I think Southwest Dave can tell you more about that than I can.
Also, now that you have changed your itinerary, one thought comes to mind from an experience I had years ago. The Point Reyes Lighthouse is only open Friday through Monday, and I took some friends there on a 'closed' day. We were sorely disappointed. There might be other attractions that have limited access, so be sure to check before scheduling them.
If you are a member of your local club, go ask if they have any reciprocal arrangements with AAA. I know most do, at least to get free maps when you are over in the US. It does normally not extend to roadside service.
Lifey
Roadside service would not be needed as that will be taken care of by the rental company. It's good to shop around for the best rental deals available to match your needs as they compete for your money, but we have found rentalcars.com to offer good value on our last couple of trips.
Our auto club is a part of a group that have arrangements with AAA. What kind of benefits can we expect?
Can you tell me about campgrounds in national parks? Do they have showers (at least in bigger parks like Yosemite)?
My friend said he wants to buy a t-shirt from every state we'll visit. I assume they sell stuff like this in visitor centers. Is it sensible to buy memorabilia in visitor centers or are they massively overpriced?
AAA - you can expect free maps. You won't need the emergency road service, as it will come with your rental car, but they probably wouldn't extend it to you anyway.
Campgrounds in national parks are pretty "bare-bones". You'll get a nice level site, water available nearby (have a container), public restrooms will probably include sinks and flush toilets. Showers may be available (usually coin-op) at a general area reachable by all campgrounds -- at least, that's the way the South Rim of the Grand Canyon was, and a couple of other parks. National forests are considerably more primitive -- water nearby, level site, but often the public facilities are outhouses of some sort with a faucet somewhere nearby to wash your hands afterward.
T-shirts for states, national parks, and other touristy places are all over. The NP gift shops will carry them. We found some reasonable prices in 2014, with t-shirts running $5-20, and sweatshirts running $15-35. For states and/or cities, often times the local Walgreens will have something very reasonable, such as 3 for $12. Walmart will also carry some local t-shirts that will be reasonably priced.
As far as other memorabilia, it depends on what you're looking for. We found that books are usually sold at their highest retail prices, and ordering them from Amazon is less expensive. They are also weighty if you have to fly home. Sometimes writing down the titles and authors, then ordering later from Amazon or similar is a lot cheaper and better for your luggage.
If you purchase something that is breakable, I would ensure that the clerk wrap it carefully, and then find some way to secure it in your suitcase so that it will not break.
Donna
Your auto club should be able to provide you with maps, and it could also get you some discounts at places like motels.
Some national park campgrounds will have showers - sometimes pay showers - others won't, but rangers can usually direct you to places outside the park they are available. The National Parks website will have all of that information available for you. I find that state parks actually have showers more often than National Parks/Forests.
T-shirts won't be hard to find. Most parks have a visitors center or book store where they'll sell shirts and other souvenirs, and they're usually not priced too bad. Stores just outside the parks will frequently also sell stuff, that may be cheaper, but it can be of lower quality.
That is something your automobile club will be able to tell you.... exactly what their arrangement with AAA is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujsek
All I know is that I regularly get maps and tourism information from the AAA with my membership from home. Be sure to take your membership with you. When I travel in the US and see a discount for AAA members, I always tell them that I am a member of a club which has a reciprocal arrangement with AAA. Sometimes I get the discount, and sometimes I am told they only take AAA. You never know, but it is worth asking.
Lifey
Now that the fourth one said yes, Yellowstone in back in the picture. Can you tell me the best way to get there from Zion and the best way from Arches? If we go that way, we'll go to Crater Lake after Yellowstone and then down to the coast in California.
Did you have a good look on your maps..... to see which route would not have you backtracking? According to my atlas there are several scenic routes which could take you there, from either place.
Lifey
I tweaked our itinerary a bit and now we need to know the best route to get to Grand Teton from Capitol Reef. We have some backtracking in Utah and around Grand Canyon but nothing major.
You will notice when looking around the forums is that there is no single 'best', but there are options. First off, are you looking to do the trip to the Tetons in one day where 'best' might mean 'quickest', or with an overnight stop, 'Best' might mean 'scenic'. The other thing is where would you have travelled to Capitol Reef from, Zion or Arches direction ? US191 is a nice route and you could stop at Flaming gorge Res but if you are looking for quick, then I5 north would be an option.
We will probably take the scenic route and just make an overnight stop.
Do you thing there will be room at Natural Bridges campground (first come first serve) if we arrive there on Sunday 3rd July?
It would be prudent to have accommodation for that busy and popular holiday weekend booked as soon as you can.
Lifey
I know. We'll make reservations for everything we can as soon as reservation windows open. The only problem is that campground at Natural Bridges is first come first serve.
On 4th July we'll be staying at a campground for which we can make a reservation (Devil's Garden campground - Arches) and on 5th of July we are planning on staying at Willow Flat campground (Canyonlands) which is also first come first serve.
I don't believe Natural Bridges takes reservations.
Sunday the 3rd could be tricky, because I'd suspect you'll have quite a few people who will be set up for a long weekend, staying through Monday. When I camped there, it wasn't a holiday weekend, and it filled up by late afternoon. There were only a couple of spots left when we arrived around 4 pm, if I recall. If you can arrive early, you'd probably be able to find something, but if you get there late, you could have a problem.
However, the nice thing about Natural Bridges is it is surrounded by BLM land, so if you're willing to rough it, you could easily find a place to park yourself for the night. There are also some other parks not too far away, like Goosenecks State Park.
If we decide to rough it, we can just stop somewhere and put up our tents?
Can you give me some advice on things to do and see in Grand Teton? Is there a paved road to T.A. Moulton Barn?
Information for BLM camping near Natural Bridges can be found here. (I found that link on the Natural Bridges website, which is another reminder that the National Parks service websites are filled with a remarkable amount of information.)
For Grand Teton, I'd highly recommend taking the boat trip across Jenny Lake and then hiking up to some of the overlooks there. I didn't do Mormon Row on my trip, but again, the National Parks website can answer nearly any question you have about visiting the area.
Take Antelope Flats road from 191 near Blacktail ponds which is paved. You will come to a T junction where you turn right to Mormon row historic district but there is also a cool barn to the left. There is a verge on that junction where you can park up if it's not too busy and walk. You can drive down Mormon row where it eventually joins Gros Ventre road but it is unmade and can get a little rough and rutted if it's been wet and has had a lot of traffic.Quote:
Can you give me some advice on things to do and see in Grand Teton? Is there a paved road to T.A. Moulton Barn?
Once you get in the Teton's you can go to the visitor centre where you will get lots of ideas but basically as you drive through the rest takes care of itself. If you have a bit of spare time you can take the Signal mountain road for some nice views up the top. [In the field reports section you could look through my trip report 'Highways of Happiness' that contains ideas on Yellowstone and the Tetons and a journey from there to Capitol Reef.]
No, that's not legal. It has to be an authorized camping area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujsek
I also found this but in Europe we don't have anything like that so I don't really know how this things work and I don't want to do something that can get us in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest Michael
Now I'm confused...Quote:
Originally Posted by glc
It would depend on where that "somewhere" is. Most of the time, though, you'd end up on somebody's personal property and they'd want you to move on.Quote:
If we decide to rough it, we can just stop somewhere and put up our tents?
"Somewhere" that would be appropriate for tent camping:
Official private campground such as KOA.
National Park, National Forest, State Park, County Park, National Recreation Area campgrounds -- official places to camp.
Bureau of Land Management (BLM) sites that allow "dispersed" camping.
National Forest lands that allow "dispersed" camping.
A "dispersed" camping site is somewhere off the beaten track where you can pull your car at least 15 feet off the road and set up your tent. There are no facilities - no bathrooms, no water - you must bring it all in, and take it all out with you (including your trash). Many times, you must have some sort of permit, though the permit is usually free. The permit means you've stopped at an official visitor center or office and have received the rules regarding camping outside of a regular campground. In some areas of the country, "dispersed" camping means you will also not be allowed to have a campfire.
Donna
I'm not sure how you're going to fit two, possibly three more national parks into your itinerary, but I do have a routing for you up to Grand Teton NP that won't add any miles but will provide better scenery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujsek
Instead of taking the I-80 bypass, stay on I-15 up to the Brigham exit 362 and go via Garden City, Utah up to Jackson Hole. That will give you a view of Great Salt Lake, and you'll drive through Logan Canyon and past Bear Lake.
I'd like to see the revised itinerary when you get it finished.
Harry
Yellowstone part of the trip will replace Colorado and New Mexico part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Kline
Here is a new draft:
Day 1 [Thursday, 23rd June]: Venice, Italy to Istanbul, Turkey
Day 2 [Friday, 24th June]: Istanbul, Turkey to Ridgecrest, CA [160 miles]
- Sleeping: America Inn & Suites
Day 3[Saturday, 25th June]: Ridgecrest to Hilltop Campground [315 miles]
- Stops: via Death Valley NP sights
o Mesquite Flat Sand Dunes
o Harmony Borax Works
o Badwater Basin
o Artist's Palette
o Zabriskie Point
o Dante's View
- Sleeping: Hilltop Campground
Day 4: [Sunday, 26th June]: Hilltop Campground to Valley of Fire SP [148 miles]
- Stops:
o Las Vegas (The Strip)
o Hoover Dam
- Sleeping: Valley of Fire camp
Day 5: [Monday, 27th June]: Valley of Fire SP to Zion NP [317 miles]
- Stops:
o Bryce Canyon NP
- Sleeping: Watchman Campground
Day 6: [Tuesday, 28th June]: Zion NP [0 miles - shuttles]
- Sleeping: Watchman Campground
Day 7 [Wednesday, 29th June]: Zion NP to Jacob Lake [165 miles]
- Stops:
o North Rim of Grand Canyon
- Sleeping: Jacob Lake Campground [NO showers]
Day 8 [Thursday, 30th June: Jacob Lake to South Rim [178 miles]
- Stops:
o Vermillion Cliff
o Cliff Dwellers
o Glen Canyon – Lees Ferry
o Navajo Bridge
o Viewpoints between east gate and campground
- Sleeping: Mather Campground
Day 9 [Friday, 1st July]: South Rim of Grand Canyon
- Sleeping: Mather Campground
Day 10 [Saturday, 2nd July]: South Rim to Page [235 miles]
- Stops:
o Sunset Crater Volcano National Monument
o Wupatki National Monument
o Horseshoe Bend
o Glen Canyon Dam
- Sleeping: Page Campground
Day 11 [Sunday, 3rd July]: Page to Natural Bridges [200 miles]
- Stops:
o Agathla Peak
o Monument Valley
o Mexican Hat
o Gooseneck's State Park
o Moki Dugway
o Natural Bridges
- Sleeping: Natural Bridges Campground or dispersed
Day 12 [Monday, 4th July]: Natural Bridges to Arches [155 miles]
- Sleeping: Devil's Garden Campground
Day 13 [Tuesday, 5th July]: Arches to Canyonlands National Park [90 miles]
- Stops:
o Dead Horse Point State Park
- Sleeping: Willow Flat Campground [NO showers]
Day 14 [Wednesday, 6th July]: Canyonlands to Colorado National Monument [205 miles]
- Sleeping: Saddlehorn Campground
Day 15 [Thursday, 7th July]: Colorado National Monument to Flaming Gorge [200 miles]
- Stops:
o Dinosaur National Monument
- Sleeping:
Day 16 [Friday, 8th July]: Flaming Gorge to Yellowstone [315 miles]
- Stops:
o Grand Teton
- Sleeping: Grant Village Campground
Day 17 [Saturday, 9th July]: Yellowstone [? miles]
- Stops:
o Old Faithfull
o Upper Geyser Basin
o Midway Geyser Basin
o Lower Geyser Basin
o Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone
- Sleeping: Canyon Campground
Day 18 [Sunday, 10th July]: Yellowstone [? miles]
- Stops:
o Tower Fall
o Historic Fort Yellowstone
o Lower Terraces
o Upper Terraces
- Sleeping: Madison Campground
Day 19 [Monday, 11th July]: Yellowstone to Jerome [345 miles]
- Stops:
o Craters of the Moon National Monument
- Sleeping: Jerome KOA
Day 20 [Tuesday, 12th July]: Jerome to Crystal Crane [325 miles]
- Stops:
o Shoshone Falls
o Malheur Butte
- Sleeping: Crystal Crane Hot Springs Cabins
Day 21 [Wednesday, 13th July]: Crystal Crate to Crater Lake [265 miles]
- Sleeping : Mazama Campground
Day 22 [Thursday, 14th July]: Crater Lake to June Lake [460 miles]
- Stops:
o Mono Lake
- Sleeping : June Lake Beach Campground
Day 23 [Friday, 15th July] : June Lake to Yosemite village [120 miles]
- Stops:
o Devil's Postpile National Monument
- Sleeping : Lower Pines Campground
Day 24 [Saturday, 16th July]: Yosemite [0 miles - shuttles]
- Sleeping : Lower Pines Campground
Day 25 [Sunday, 17th July]: Yosemite [0 miles – shuttles]
- Sleeping : Lower Pines Campground
Day 26 [Monday, 18th July]: Yosemite to Sequoia [150 miles]
- Sleeping: Sunset Campground
Day 27 [Tuesday, 19th July]: Sequoia [0 - Miles]
- Sleeping: Sunset Campground
Day 28 [Wednesday, 20th July]: Sequoia to Mojave National Preserve [380 miles]
- Sleeping: Hole in the Wall Campground
Day 29 [Thursday, 21th July]: Mojave to Serrano [330 miles]
- Stops:
o Joshua Tree National Park
- Sleeping: Serrano Campground
Day 30 [Friday, 22nd July]: Serrano to LAX [115 miles]
It is not a good idea to hit the road on the day you arrive off a long haul flight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pujsek
You are better of spending at least 24 hours before you plan to drive, even to Ridgecrest. Your body clock needs to adjust to local time.
Lifey
That shouldn't be a problem. I'll be working nights on the week before our trip so my body clock will be much closer to California time than ours :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifemagician
It's good to see that you have been doing your homework and have a great list of possible places to visit, but don't expect to get around to them all. It's far more important to have time to savour the spot you are in, then it is to be watching the clock and worrying about getting to the next place on your list. Some places you may stay longer than expected and others not so long so it's good to have options. Would it not be easier to see all the attractions around Page and then go to the South rim and Monument valley?
I have to agree that driving to Ridgecrest on arrival isn't a good idea. You may think your body clock is adjusted but after an International flight you will be weary. Even though the adrenalin may keep you going for a while eventually you will crash and then it could affect you for a few days after, not to mention your mates. It's usually best to get your rental and crash at a nearby motel and then hit the road running early the next morning.
Of course. This is the plan. I forgot to change it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
I agree it isn't the best thing to do but we need to enter Death Valley as soon as possible on the second day of our trip because we don't want to camp there because of the temperatures. Do you think it's better for us to stay near the airport and just start the day in the middle of the night (around 4 am)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Dave
What time does your flight actually arrive ? I can't help but think you might be better off cutting back a little, perhaps the Mojave and Joshua Tree at the end of your trip, to give you a little more time. Perhaps even visit them at the start of your trip
I would also consider visiting Lassen Volcanic NP between Crater Lake and Yosemite over heading to June Lake.
That's another problem. Flight is scheduled to arrive at 4 pm. We can't cut back at the start of our trip because we have to be in Las Vegas on the 26th as we are meeting with some friends who live in the states and that is the only opportunity for us to meet (they are flying back to the east coast on the 26th). But we can take it easy on that day and get some rest.
Thanks for the Lassen suggestion. It seems really beautiful.
If your flight arrives at 4pm, you would be in the height of rush hour trying to get out of LA. Pick up your car, get a hotel room near the airport, go to bed early, and hit the road before dawn to get out of the city before rush hour. Best way to DV is I-405 to I-5 to CA-14. The 405 is famous for its terrible traffic so I'd say that 4am would be a good target time to get going.
You can either stay on CA-14 to US-395 to CA-190 to get into DV, or go into Ridgecrest on CA-178 and take the Trona-Wildrose Road in, which will take you to CA-190 at Panamint Springs.
I'd agree with the above. It takes time to clear customs and to get to the rental desk and do the paper work for your car. Then you should take into consideration you could have flight delays. After travelling, picking up the car and booking into your hotel and having something to eat, it should see you tired and ready for bed around 8pm, so you could get a good nights sleep and still be on the road early.
First let me wish you a happy new year and many safe miles.
We decided to listen to you and will book a room somewhere in Los Angeles area. We will also need to find a supermarket and buy tents, coolers, water, food... and I think this will take another two hours. How long do you think it will take us to get from LA to DV (Mesquite sand dunes) if we start at 4 am? I think we should be able to get there in about 5 hours.
Can you give me some advice on scenic routes and possible quick stops between Yellowstone and Crater Lake?
Rather than trying to stock up in LA, I'd get out of town first. There is a 24 hour Walmart Supercenter in Palmdale right off CA-14 near the Antelope Valley Mall, you should be able to buy everything you need there. It shouldn't take you 2 hours to do that, you might be able to make the trip in 5 or so hours including the shopping stop.
To find all of those items without a lot of running around, your best bet is to go to the nearest Walmart. When you check in at a hotel, ask at the desk about the location of the nearest Walmart. If one isn't close by, then ask about the nearest Big 5 Sporting Goods and the nearest grocery store. Big 5 will have the tent, sleeping bags (if you need) and coolers, grocery store will have the coolers and food.Quote:
We decided to listen to you and will book a room somewhere in Los Angeles area. We will also need to find a supermarket and buy tents, coolers, water, food... and I think this will take another two hours.
It's roughly 300 miles from LAX to Death Valley, via CA-14, 58, and US 395. Count on 6 hours, and that would include only a pit stop and a fast-food breakfast. Leaving at 4 am sounds like a winning plan to me (it's something my husband and I do when we have to traverse the LA area).Quote:
How long do you think it will take us to get from LA to DV (Mesquite sand dunes) if we start at 4 am? I think we should be able to get there in about 5 hours.
Donna
Is there any particular reason for stocking up outside of LA? I must say that 24h Walmart sounds appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by glc
Google is saying 250 miles if we take Trona Wildrose Rd and 270 miles if we take US395. Which route would you recommend? Not for speed though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnaR57