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I would probably budget twice that for the average trip. Prices do vary some from state to state, but the bigger thing often is your cars gas mileage and the time of year. It would take a car getting at least 30 mpg and gas prices around $3 a gallon to see that low of a price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subman
That is not impossible by any means, but the average car isn't going to get that many mpg, and in the spring and summer prices tend to typically be up around the $4 mark.
Charlie H: thank you for the credit card link - I will be checking out (my own card is not the best). And thanks for all your amazing suggestions!
Midwest Michael: sorry I didn't know about where to post/not to post. And thanks for your invaluable advise!
My Rand McNally just arrived in the post - a great looking book - so I'll be studying that closely, and hopefully won't bother you guys with all my pointless questions all the time.
Thanks.
Subman
No questions are pointless if you need/ want to know the answers. You can ask as many questions as need be and we will do our best to answer them, that's what the road trip forums are all about.Quote:
hopefully won't bother you guys with all my pointless questions all the time.
Enjoy the planning and keep asking questions as and when.
Dave.
You're more than welcome. Here's another comment on the Halifax card from another member of the other Forum: "That's the one my wife took with her too as a fallback to the pre-paid card we had. No problems at all or any scary rates."Quote:
Originally Posted by Subman
It was only after I had read the booklet, and spent some time with the lady at Travelex, that I understood what these cards are all about... how they work. Friends and folk whom I had met along the way on a previous trip, were using them, and recommended same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subman
The point is, cash cards do not give you an exchange rate. You get your US dollars at whatever rate you can get them, and then load them onto the card. You can keep adding to them at will. It is the most convenient way to transport cash across the pond. [With the Canadian credit card, you still have to pay the fees at your bank, to settle your account.]
Ask the provider, though I believe they have the same security if lost, than any other card. I certainly would not accept one which did not have a cover if lost or stolen. It pays to check out all your local suppliers of Cash Cards, their conditions, security, etc. I would be surprised if your bank does not have this product. Locally, I can get almost a dozen different ones. Have not used them in the past, but will definitely use one on my trip in 2014.
Lifey
Point Of Clarification: The Halifax credit card mentioned above is not a Canadian card but rather a UK card issued by a bank in Leeds.
Thanks to all your great advice and some lengthy consultations with Mr McNally, we are currently looking at a route/schedule that would go something like this:
Day 1-2: Fly in & New York
Day 2-3: Drive to Chicago, via US-224 as suggested by AZBuck
Day 4: Chicago
Day 5-6: Chicago to Cheyenne, Wyoming, via I-80.
Day 7: Cheyenne to Denver & Denver
Day 8-10: Denver to Flagstaff via US-191 (including UT-128/Arches, Moki Dugway (thank you Dave!), Monument Valley, Grand Canyon)
Day 11: Around Flagstaff
Day 12: Flagstaff to Vegas, via Route 66 Seligman to Kingnam
Day 13: Vegas
Day 14: Vegas to LA via Death Valley
Day 15: LA
Day 16-17: LA to SF via Pacific Coast Highway
Day 18-19: SF & Fly out
Since we will have 21-22 days in total, this plan would have some scope for delays and/or adding stuff somewhere. But are some of the driving bits here too ambitious? On pure 'driving days', we'll be happy to do 8-10 hours between places.
The trip would also end in SF instead of LA, as that city interests us more than LA. This would leave out Yosemite NP, but I'm not sure if we would have time for that. And it would mean doing the PC Highway on the 'wrong' side of the road - I've seen elsewhere on the forum people recommending driving it the other way round. Would this diminish the experience and make it more difficult to stop at the scenic viewpoints?
I was also wondering, if driving in the larger cities is problematic? (I personally never drive in London for example, as I find it scary and chaotic). We would be driving in Chicago, Denver and LA - Chicago in particular I've heard can be difficult to drive in. Instead of staying in a hotel right in the center, would it be better to stay in a motel somewhere on the outskirts and use public transport to get to the central areas?
Thank you for all your previous kind responses! Planning the trip is fun and, to be fair, that plan might still change many many times..
Subman
Chicago -- yeah, yuck. One of my least favorite cities to drive in! If you get a place in the central city, you can walk or ride city transportation to get to whatever museum you want to go to. Our plans for a future trip involve staying with family in the southern suburbs and riding Metra into the city to do the Museum of Natural History and Navy Pier. Tinley Park, Richton Park, and Matteson are good spots to find lodging and close enough to Metra Stations at Tinley Park and Richton Park (I believe).
Denver isn't too bad -- we don't mind driving through there, but like any other city, we try to avoid between 6 am and 9 am, and 3 pm to 6 pm. Our rule of thumb: if planning to stay in a city, stay on the further side to avoid the need to drive through and become part of Rush Hour traffic the next morning.
LA? Frankly that scared the bejeebers out of me for years. Now I have become accustomed to it. The best time to "just pass through", though, is still 1 am to 4 am.
Donna
Parking in downtown Chicago is quite expensive - even if you stay in a hotel you can't park free. Figure at least $25 a day.
I'm not sure I understand the logic here. Yosemite is a wonderful place if you can make the time and if SF interests you more than LA then why not simply spend your time in SF and have a relaxing drive down the coast, drop the rental car off and fly out of LA, or skip LA altogether ?Quote:
The trip would also end in SF instead of LA, as that city interests us more than LA. This would leave out Yosemite NP, but I'm not sure if we would have time for that.
Your actual drives look fine and manageable although, as an example, you could spend a week between Denver and the Grand canyon and not see anywhere near all there is to see. Have you considered visiting Rocky mountain NP, staying in Estes Park and visiting the Bear lake area would be an option, whether you stayed there instead of Cheyenne or spent time there rather than in Denver. If Denver appeals to you then that's great, but I know which I would prefer. ;-) I'd also think that you will be arriving late to Flagstaff after visiting Arches and driving the Moki Dugway and would need to visit the Grand canyon for a full day on day 11 instead of "Around Flagstaff".
Donna and glc, Thanks guys - I hadn't even thought of the rush hour problem or parking. Need to plan driving into these cities quite carefully, if indeed we drive into them at all, and the bit about staying on the 'further' side is great advise.
Dave, you are absolutely right, that stretch from Denver to Flagstaff has anything and everything in it, so we'll need to think about the best way to get the most out of it. And going Death Valley - Yosemite - SF would make sense, time allowing, plus that way we would drive down the PC Highway on the 'right' side. LA is not a high priority, but it is a 'famous' place, I guess, and a convenient place to fly out from.
Thank you.
Subman
On my first visit to Chicago I got to a sign - Chicago 31. That was around 2.30pm. I arrived in downtown after 5pm. I have never driven in Chicago since.Quote:
I was also wondering, if driving in the larger cities is problematic?
Lifey
I lived about 35 miles west of Chicago in a far suburb for 35 years - I avoided driving into the city if I didn't HAVE to. Public transportation is excellent as long as the "hub and spoke" system gets you where you need to go.
If you stay at a hotel near O'Hare (the big airport), you will have free parking and usually free shuttles to the airport. There is a light rail station in the airport basement that gets you downtown in about 45 minutes for $5.
I'll admit, when I travel to Chicago, I usually take the Metra (commuter rail) when I can, but I still drive there a fair amount, and I don't think it is quite as bad as you'd probably fear reading this thread. Certainly, if you travel anytime around rush hour and try to travel through the heart of the city, you are going to run into some significant gridlock, but if you travel on off-hours or weekends, I don't usually have many problems.
I would not recommend staying out near O'Hare, it would be just way too much of a pain for me. Between getting a shuttle to the hotel, and then actually taking the EL (elevated train) in, you're looking at an hour to travel to downtown each way, and even more time to get to places like the Museum Campus or other specific attractions. The CTA also has a surcharge that more than doubles the price for all trips leaving O'Hare, so instead of paying $2.25 per trip on the train, you have to pay $5.
When I'm staying in Chicago, I always try to stay somewhere downtown (or the specific part of the city I'm visiting), and then get around the city via the EL. I would recommend you either drive in and try to find a hotel with reasonable parking rates, or find a metra station that has overnight parking available, and take that into downtown to your hotel.
Midwest Michael: thank you for your Chicago advice - not sure if we will go there, but it's good to know it's not impossible, as others have indicated...
Everyone: sorry if I'm posting too many questions about the trip way before it happens, but at the moment I'm off work and have a lot of time for the research so these maps and things are on my mind, while soon I'll be pretty busy for the foreseeable future. Plus me and my friend would like to book the flights and the car as soon as possible (in May), to hopefully benefit from some early-bird discounts.
We were thinking of either:
a) getting from JFK to Cheyenne, WY on the I-80 in 4 long driving days (and not visiting Chicago), to leave more time for the scenic parts of Colorado, Utah and Arizona.
b) spending say 6 days between JFK and Cheyenne/Denver mainly on the US-50, starting from Winchester, VA at the junction with I-81.
Does anyone have any recommendations, that is, good reasons for taking the US-50? Personally, I feel it might be more interesting than the I-80?
Thank you.
Subman
Oh and if you took the US-50, which would be good/interesting over-nights?
US 50 is definitely more interesting, going through small town America and see how the lifestyle and culture change along the way. The downside would be slower roads, traffic lights and generally driving slower, though you have allowed for this with the extra days.
Point is, you will never be far from an interstate, should all the lights and towns create a desire for more speed. US 50 runs vaguely parallel with I-70.
Lifey
Thank you for your comments Lifey! I have to say, this road interest us a lot more than the I-80. Where would you stay over night before St. Louis? (we're not into big cities; rather we would stay at smaller towns whenever possible. I'm only using St. Louis as a 'marker'.)
As with almost all choices that need to be made in planning and executing a RoadTrip, there is no right or wrong, best or worse, one - just the choice. So whichever way you choose to go and however long you take getting there (assuming you take a safe amount of time) just enjoy the fruits of your preparation, planning and decision making. By the same token, no one else can tell you with absolute certitude which choice is right for you, only what they prefer.
Having driven large chunks of the two routes I will tell you that I would choose US-50 and six days over I-80 and four. In a heartbeat. The Interstates certainly have their function in getting one from Point A to Point B rapidly and safely. But that functionality comes at a price. The superslabs are often runway flat and straight, require speeds and attention to traffic that preclude enjoying much of the scenery they pass through, and absolutely forestall the possibility of stopping at something that piques your interest.
Along US-50, a few things stand out as particularly noteworthy - Crossing the Appalachians through Virginia and West Virginia, and St. Louis. If you choose this basic route, then you'll face another decision - where to turn north to get to either Denver or Cheyenne. You can stay on US-50 well into Kansas and see the Old West trail town, Dodge City, as well as visiting the great Front Range cities, Pueblo and Colorado Springs, to Denver. Or, you can use I-29 to head north from Kansas City through St. Joseph to Nebraska City and then use NE-2/US-30 to follow the old Oregon Trail along the Platte River to Cheyenne.
But again, all choices are up to you and your friend.
AZBuck
Lifey, I think you may be thinking of US-40 - it never strays far from I-70. However, US-50 between DC and STL never gets really close to an Interstate - it's roughly midway between I-70 and I-64.
I have my doubts that you could drive from DC to STL in 2 days on US-50. That's a 1.5 day drive using only the Interstates.
Hello All and a Happy New Year.
I dug up this old thread rather than starting a new one, since we have now booked our flights and the rental car. The trip is 30/04 - 20/05, the flights are London-NYC & SF-London, so that is 21 days (arrive back in the UK on day 22), and the car is a small class SUV (went with SUV rather than standard-class car since gas seems to be cheaper now so the MPG figures are less important and because it offers a slightly higher driving position, hopefully enabling us to 'see better' - I drive a tall truck at home and like it.)
The aims for this trip are to see a mixture of cities, smaller towns, some scenic roads and (briefly) some of the National Parks (the parks are not the main focus for this trip, but I'm already planning a family trip around the Southwestern parks in the future...)
I have a few general and specific questions about the below proposed itenary (as our plans currently stand), if anyone would be kind enough to offer some assistance.
DAY 1 & 2: NYC
DAY 3: Pick up car early, drive from Newark Airport to Winchester, VA. (300mi) What is the easiest and least-congested Interstate-route between Newark and Winchester?
DAY 4, 5, 6, 7, 8: This is the troublesome part. We have 5 days to get from Winchester to Denver (or Boulder, CO), using US-50 to St. Louis, and then use I-29 to head north from Kansas City through St. Joseph to Nebraska City and then use NE-2/US-30 to follow the old Oregon Trail along the Platte River (as AZBuck suggested). I'm not sure how to divide the drives, so that we could stay in nice and safe smaller towns and maybe Cincinnati or Louisville, KY (but not St. Louis)? Athens, OH and Lincoln, NE seem nice, but I'm struggling to decide how to approach this section. Can anyone help, please?
DAY 9: in Boulder and/or Denver
DAY 10: Denver to Moab, UT, I-70 via US-6 at Loveland Pass and UT-128 into Moab (360mi) - also hoping to drive to Dead Horse SP and back to see the sunset this evening - not sure if there will be time, though.
DAY 11: See Arches NP briefly early morning (between 5am - 8am) for the sunrise. Drive Moab to Monument Valley via Moki Dugway (150ish mi) - accommodation here is a problem, though: The View and Gouldings Lodge are fully booked.
DAY 12: MV to GC NP via AZ-64 (200mi). Stay for the sunset, then drive into Tusayan (preferred) or Flagstaff for the night.
DAY 13: Flagstaff to Vegas via old Route 66 (300mi).
DAY 14: Vegas
DAY 15: Vegas - Death Valley NP - Bakersfield (450mi). Is this too long? Considering staying the night within the Park, if accommodation can be found.
DAY 16: Bakersfield to Carmel, CA (250mi). Also, if we don't stay in Death Valley, is there a better (smaller) town than Bakersfield to stop around here?
DAY 17: Carmel to SF Airport via PCH (150mi) - return car. Go to SF City.
DAY 18: SF
DAY 19: SF, flight back in the evening.
So, this currently leaves us with 2 days to add, because it's a 21-day trip. Possibly 1 day in Cheyenne and 1 in LA, but not sure about this.
Also, if we can't find accommodation around Monument Valley, is it possible to do DAY 11 and 12 in one long day? If so, we would then have 3 extra days to add.
Also, generally speaking, is it advisable to wash the rental car before returning it? I've rented cars in Europe and never washed them, but maybe in the US the culture is different? And as for gas and food stops, what are the common places to stop at? Gas stations and food stops separately, or do you have in the US the massive Service Stations that we have in the UK that combine everything (they serve a purpose, but are rather soulless, in my opinion)?
Any thoughts and corrections/improvements would be most welcome. Sorry about the long post and thank you very much for your time!
Subman
Welcome Back to the RTA Forum, and thanks for keeping your question with your original thread.
It's might be possible, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it. In fact, my initial thought is that those two days are already rushed, and that's an area where you'd be wise to use one of your extra days.Quote:
Also, if we can't find accommodation around Monument Valley, is it possible to do DAY 11 and 12 in one long day? If so, we would then have 3 extra days to add.
Arches is a park that's tough to see in 3 hours, as you'll spend about an hour each way just driving back into the park. Even a quick trip here pretty much requires a half day. You might also consider Canyonlands/Island in the Sky, especially at sunrise, where Mesa Arch might be one of the world's best places to see the sun come up. Between Moab and Moki Dugway is Natural Bridges Nat. Monument, which is another one of my favorite spots in the area - and it doesn't have to take a lot of time. If you can't find lodging at MV itself, also look around at some of the nearby towns like Kayenta AZ or Mexican Hat or Bluff UT.
Similarly, the Grand Canyon is a big place that really deserves a full day if you can make it work. What I might do if I were you, spend another night in Moab, spend day two driving through Nat. Bridges, Moki, MV and then spend the night closer to GC, maybe at the Cameron Trading Post, and spend day 3 at GC.
Lake Isabella is a place you might look at, a nice little resort town with quite a few place to stay. Actually, since it will be the end of May by this point of your trip, I'd be looking at heading towards Tioga Pass and going through Yosemite - if the pass is open. That's another place that would be more than worthy of one of your extra days.Quote:
DAY 16: Bakersfield to Carmel, CA (250mi). Also, if we don't stay in Death Valley, is there a better (smaller) town than Bakersfield to stop around here?
I wouldn't wash the car, unless you get it really dirty, then it might be a good idea to make sure you don't get hit with a cleaning fee of some sort.Quote:
Also, generally speaking, is it advisable to wash the rental car before returning it? I've rented cars in Europe and never washed them, but maybe in the US the culture is different? And as for gas and food stops, what are the common places to stop at? Gas stations and food stops separately, or do you have in the US the massive Service Stations that we have in the UK that combine everything (they serve a purpose, but are rather soulless, in my opinion)?
As far as gas and food, I'm pretty sure the one-stop shop is an American creation that's been exported to the UK. You'll have big truck stops with gas, several fast food chains, and a sit down restaurant or two, but even many small town gas stations will have some kind of fast food chain in the same building. Of those that don't, most will still have some food options like sandwiches and hot dogs, etc. Every once and a while, you'll find a real gem of a restaurant inside a gas station (oddly, some of the best sushi I've ever had, was from a restaurant located inside a gas station in Bakersfield!) but most of the time, I'd go elsewhere if you're looking for something other than quick fast food.
Michael, thank you for your thoughtful, helpful and detailed response.
Adding a day in Moab has been a consideration, and it is probably a very good idea, we will look at this. That said, do you think DAY 10 is possible, to begin with, with the drive and the Dead Horse SP at sunset?
If all the other drives are reasonable, we could easily add the 2 extra days in this section, but it's tricky with the limited accommodation options around these parts and the wish to see some of these places at sunset.
Day 10 shouldn't be a problem at all. Even factoring the detour to Loveland Pass, Denver to Moab can be done in 7 hours or so, and you should have plenty of time to make it up to Dead Horse. In fact, you might even have time to take a quick look around Canyonlands this day, depending upon how much time you take on the drive across Colorado (there are plenty of places you could stop there too).
Day 3: Take I-78 to I-81 to get from EWR to Winchester.
Day 11: Closest lodging to MV if Gouldings and the View are booked would be in Mexican Hat and Kayenta.
At the GC, if you don't stay in Tusayan, I'd go to Williams instead of Flagstaff.
If Tioga Pass is open, coming out of DV you can stay in Lone Pine or Bishop.
Thank you Michael - I'm very happy that DAY 10 should be ok, as I was unsure about this.
GLC - thank you for the info. DAY 11 (Mexican Hat or Kayenta) and, later, Grand Canyon (Williams): do you think these would need to be pre-booked as well (from the UK, before leaving)? We would like to book as little as possible (apart from NYC, SF and Las Vegas), to give us flexibility in case our plans change slightly during this trip, but it seems like around these popular spots there is very limited availability (Tusayan, for example).
Would it work not to book anything in advance, but doing so while on the road a couple of days before arriving at a destination, since we'll have wifi in most places and our phones of course?
Also, we won't be doing Tiago Pass or Yosemite on this trip, as I wouldn't want to rush through them. I'll save that for the next trip with the family!
And sorry to be a pain, but I was wondering if you have any advise on DAYS 4 to 8, as to the places to stop (nice/interesting/smallish towns) with fairly even driving days? If not, no worries: we will just need to figure it out ourselves...
Thanks again.
It wouldn't hurt to book day 11 ahead of time - there are only 3 lodgings in Mexican Hat and 4 in Kayenta. If you want to stay in Tusayan (and are prepared to pay the price) I'd book there too. Williams shouldn't be necessary, and if they happen to be full, I can almost guarantee that Flagstaff won't be.
If you want to take a chance, there's a little motel in Tusayan called the 7 Mile Lodge that is inexpensive for the area - they do not take reservations and they usually don't answer the phone. It's walk in first come first serve.
GLC - thank you for the advise - I am looking at bookings in this area, we may want to go to Page, AZ as well, so have booked there already in case (can be cancelled, if need be) and in Moab (likewise). We might try 7 Mile Lodge - if that doesn't work out, then Williams.
We also managed to book Furnace Creek Ranch in DV NP - hopefully will get some clear skies that night!
I have one further question about the TOLLS, if anyone can help please. We don't mind paying them, but were wondering if, on our route - I-78 and I-81, around Cincinnati, St. Louis and Kansas City, Lincoln, NE, Denver, LA (driving from DV to Hollywood area) and around SF Airport - there are manned toll booths/credit card machines at all places?
We would prefer this to some kind of pre-paid arrangements I've heard about, and definitely to automated payments charged to the vehicle after passing through, as I've read that this can create big problems/charges with the car hire company.
The route keeps changing slightly almost every day, but the planning is fun!
Thank you, as always, for your help.
Subman
The only unmanned tolls anywhere on your route are the the C-470 bypass around Denver and the Golden Gate Bridge. You may find unmanned toll express lanes on some of the LA freeways, just don't use them. Everywhere else, carry cash, don't count on being able to use a credit card. There is a toll bridge on I-78 at the NJ/PA border and a stretch of I-70 from KC to Topeka is toll. Most of the other bridges in the SF area are toll.
Hi GLC: thank you so much for this information, it is very useful! So cash it is, which is of course our preferred option, plus we won't be driving over the Golden Gate Bridge, so don't have to worry about that one.
Thanks again.
One final thing: I would very much like to put together a trip report in the Road Trip Field Report section after the trip, with photos. I tried some several months ago to upload some random (UK) photos to create an album here, but failed miserably - even after reading all the advise here, I found it very difficult.
Could anyone please advise as to an easy, simple way to get the photos onto my profile (or album) first and from there onto a post? (I am somewhat challenged with all this new technology and would greatly appreciate the help...)
Thank you very much.
Yup, I am familiar with being challenged... it took me a looooooong time. Then the system was changed, and I had to learn all over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subman
I could walk you through it, but since I do not have any to upload at the moment, I can't really remember all the steps in detail, nor the tags on the boxes to tick.
Did you read the how to upload photos in the field trip report forum? If you found that confusing, I can relate to that too.
Good luck.
Lifey
This is the thread on how to upload your photos. If you have any problems when the time comes, let us know and we will help you through it. Once you have done it a couple of times it's a lot easier than it first appears.
This is really not an expensive toll, and there are manned toll booths. There are also two service areas in this stretch, so that you don't have to get off the toll road (and pay more) just to get gas, food, or use a restroom. We didn't think that the price of fuel was all that bad, either.Quote:
and a stretch of I-70 from KC to Topeka is toll.
Donna
Thank you ALL for all the advise, now and in the past - it is invaluable and very reassuring to have all this expert knowledge for our planning.
As for the photos, I failed once, but I will NOT fail again... I'll just have to cross that particular bridge when the time comes : )
Safe Travels.
Subman
Hi guys,
Hoping for a bit of advise/directions for Death Valley. We will have between 1 to 1.5 days in this park in mid-May (staying overnight).
Firstly, I remember seeing the 'local's route from Vegas' mentioned on the Forum, but can't remember what it was - can you remind me?
We'll be staying at Furnace Creek, but would love to see Badwater Basin, Artists Drive and the Sand Dunes (slightly to the north), with very short hikes away from the car, if possible. And maybe more - if again possible?
Are all 3 possible in such a short time-frame and which order would you recommend?
And finally, are there any (cheap) places between Vegas (the Strip) and Death Valley to stock up on supplies, such as water, snacks, gas, etc. I wouldn't want to rely on the services at Furnace Creek too much, mainly because of the prices.
Thank you very much for your time!
Subman
The 'Locals route' is to take 160 to Pahrump and then just north of town take Bell Vista Ave/ State line road to Death valley junction, turn right on 127 and immediate left onto 190. You will see the Armagosa opera house at the junction. Before Furnace Creek you could stop at Zabriske Point and then from Furnace Creek head to Badwater Basin and Artists drive on the way back as it's one way starting from the southern end. The sand dunes are near Stovepipe Wells and could be seen as part of your ongoing journey next day. And yes you have enough time. There are shops and gas stations south of the Strip where I am sure you will find what you want.
There are also places to stock up in Pahrump. A quick Google search shows there are 3 grocery stores in town and amazingly enough, Gas Buddy shows that gasoline in Pahrump is considerably less expensive than in Las Vegas. Fill your tank to the brim in Pahrump, because gas in the whole state of California is considerably more expensive too.
Excellent info - thank you to both!
The trip is only a few weeks away now - getting very excited...