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Peter, I had not seen that thread before... well it was long before I even discovered this site. It brought back so many memories, of one of my favourite places. In 2007 I bought a book in the general store there, about exploring central Idaho. Left it with my friend. We have done a couple of the day trips out of it.
Lifey
Sorry, I completely missed this post! I actually read that post but on a blog and that's what lead me to this site - I was looking up winter road tripping in Idaho, came up with your blog and when you mentioned asking for advice I thought "hey, that's a better idea than asking a search engine" and came here. So thanks for that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Thody
Hello MikeN,
If the winter of 2012 is an average one, you'll surely see enough of cold weather and snow to estimate your tolerance for it in Idaho and Montana! Here are some additional thoughts and ideas:
Forget tent camping. The chance of finding a campground open and a campsite cleared of snow is close to zero. I think you mentioned a tent in the original post as a part of a "survival kit" as opposed to a source of regular overnight sleeping accomodations. While I'd certainly take a below-zero (F) rated sleeping bag for each person, I wouldn't bother with a tent. With the exception of the Sun Valley, ID area, and to a small extent the Bozeman, MT area, the places you're tracking aren't heavily traveled by we skiers, so I wouldn't generally expect motel rooms to be booked up.
In further discussion of the route(s), I'd make myself aware of the elevations in general and the locations of the passes by some map study ahead of time (see below for map suggestions). While the lower elevations see their share of cold weather and snow, it's the higher elevations which get the greatest amounts of snowfall. More on point, where the various highways traverse mountain ranges in between valleys, snow and ice accumulation is greatest and the removal and navigation challenges the greatest.
If I were wanting a really close look at ID and MT and was to spend nearly a month exploring, I'd absolutely have a copy of the Benchmark Recreation and Road Atlas for each state. At approximately 1:250,000 scale (about 1" = 4 miles) the map books provide great detail as to topographic features (but are not topo maps as such, rather they are shaded relief with many elevations included for peaks, passes, crossroads, etc), and are great for navigating the named states. I nearly wore out my ID and MT Benchmarks in July 2010 and 2011, and ditto my Wyoming and Utah Benchmarks in January 2011, just by keeping them on the truck dashboard and thumbing through them many times each morning, noon, and night. The Benchmarks show all of the passes, with elevations included, and that's most helpful in my opinion. I'll readily acknowledge the Rand McNally maps do a good job of showing passes, but in somewhat less detail.
For use as PURELY a secondary or tertiary navigation tool, sure, bring the GPS. Just don't rely on it to find viable alternative routes through the mountains, as did the Chretiens in the post I originated in May of this year. "Death by GPS" is real.
I will respectfully disagree with AZBuck as to choice of vehicle, not because I think a 4WD or All Wheel Drive (AWD) is a requirement, but instead due to possible restrictions as to use of chains on a rental vehicle and the possibility that either chains or 4WD/AWD will be a requirement, of a temporary nature, as you traverse the passes. In addition, the small 4WD or AWD SUVs are ubiquitous at rental agencies. A small SUV will be in a station wagon configuration, too, and most have rear seats which fold down flat, possibly creating enough room for deploying those sleeping bags in a pinch. The Western states have various "chain laws" which are triggered by local conditions and require either chains or 4WD/AWD during periods of severe weather. It's unlikely to see "chain laws" affecting a given pass or stretch of highway for more than a few hours to half a day at any given time. The highways out there, particularly the Interstates, are the economic lifeblood of the region, and enormous efforts are directed to keeping them open to all traffic. A severe event might keep certain passes closed for a few hours to half a day or so, but longer closures are uncommon to rare. That leads to a final comment about emergency supplies: Yes, keep some water and food on board, with winter clothing, hats, gloves, and warm boots/socks. The chance of needing them due to being stranded is quite remote along your route, but to get out and enjoy the countryside in winter will require them, anyway. In the unlikely event you become marooned, it will likely be due to having wholly ignored fair warning as to a day's weather forecast, very poor luck, or some combination of the two.
Last comment (I promise!): For a month's travel in winter, be sure to purchase a gallon of windshield de-icing fluid. Keeping the vehicle's windshield-cleaning reservoir full of this fluid will enable you to regularly spray the windshield with a cleaning fluid which won't freeze, and your wipers will distribute the solvent to keep the salt spray and general grunge from melting snow and ice clear of your view. Most rental vehicles I've picked up in Salt Lake City or Denver have a nice long-handled ice scraper/snow brush on board. If yours doesn't, I'd get one at the same Wal-Mart where I acquired the extra de-icing solvent.
Have a great time planning and taking your Winter RoadTrip!
Foy
While it is not often posted, there is typically a minimum speed limit of 45 mph on the Interstates. However, there is also usually a provision that limits speed to what is safe and prudent for conditions. So in snowy conditions, if you start skidding at 35, then that's your upper speed limit. For all practical purposes as long as you are traveling roughly with traffic and are not a hindrance to other cars you will be fine. But if at any time you find yourself at the head of a long line of vehicles and there is no reasonable place to pass (including on an Interstate when only one lane is snow free) you should pull over at the first safe opportunity and let that traffic pass.
PS: Just read Foy's note (above) and he's absolutely right about keeping the windscreen clear, but don't forget the other glass in the car. In particular - and easy to overlook - is the need to keep the headlights clean. Days are short at this time of year and even though you may not plan on driving at 'night', mornings and evenings will require some additional illumination and you want every bit of light you can put on the road.
AZBuck
Wow, thanks for all that, Foy!
Good to know that vacant motels won't be too difficult to find, generally. I'll have a look at the Benchmark Atlas too - I want to have a road map and a decent topo map of the states, so that might fit my topo map requirement. I'm interested to see what the shaded elevation is like compared to the traditional contour lines of topo maps.
A station wagon SUV sounds good to me, especially if SUVs are the more common type of rental car. The good majority of our 'emergency supplies' will just be hiking gear anyway (trail mix, freeze dried food, energy bars, etc plus sleeping bags), so most of it should pack down quite small. The only thing that won't would be winter gear, but as you said, we'll be needing that anyway. Sounds like we might as well leave out the tent, since there's almost no chance that we'll ever want to use it.
Good idea with the de-icing fluid - was wondering the other day how you guys stop your wiper water from freezing and how you get the ice of your windscreen. Now I know! I'll pick up an ice scraper too if we don't get one.
Thanks very much for all that information.
AZBuck; that's good to know. As I said, I tend to be a cautious driver; though I still drive at or a little below the speed limit, depending on the weather. So long as I can't get booked for going slower in a snow storm, I'm happy. Otherwise, I'll just try my best to match local traffic speed. Good thinking on the lights too.
Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate all the help and advice :)
.......you must promise not to tell anybody how nice Montana is!
I'm somewhat of a digital illiterate and spend little time trying to rectify the situation, but I believe you can link to map book sellers such as Amazon right here through RTA. I further recall you can have a zoomed-in look at Benchmark map pages on Amazon's site. I was trained on USGS 1:24,000 scale topographic maps so I have a strong affinity to topos, but I have embraced the Benchmark shaded relief maps of the Western US states and now very much prefer them to the topographic DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer series. While the DeLormes are of similar scale to the Benchmarks and are topo based, the contour lines are fairly faint and the contour interval can be curiously poorly selected, combining for little use in my personal view. The shaded relief Benchmarks, by contrast, depict the higher elevations in white, with darkening shades of tan as you drop into the valleys. Many topographic features have the elevation, in feet above sea level, printed beside them, and in particular peaks in a mountain range, highway-traversed passes, lakes/reservoirs, towns/cities, and even major highway intersections have elevations displayed.
I wouldn't say the small SUV is the predominant vehicle offered at Western airports, but there is normally a wide selection of them. You might want to look into booking sooner rather than later, as in the higher-traffic airports close to skiing the SUVs do get booked up. You might also look into "off airport" rentals, where the rates are often rather less, in part because on-airport agencies have another tier of taxes and fees levied by the transport authorities and local governments. Lastly, I've enjoyed some success with the "Rent a Wreck" franchise and am disappointed that they closed their Salt Lake City facility. A weekly rate on a Rent a Wreck SUV was less than half the price of a brand-new SUV in recent years. Yes, the last one I rented had 120,000 miles on it and the "check engine light" was blinking from the time I picked it up until I dropped it off, but the locals assured me it was merely an automatic reminder that the oxygen sensor was due for a change, and the vehicle ran like a top the whole week.
Have a great time, and remember to keep the secret about MT and ID.
Foy
Here is a link to the Map books at RTA, as described by Foy. I put 'Montana' into the search box of which you can use to find other maps of interest.
Hi Mike, I'm a native Idahoan, born in Idaho Falls and lived in the Cascade/McCall area for ten years (you will pass through both of these towns on your trip up north on 55). The chances of highway 55 being closed in Jan/Feb are not typical for long periods of time (sometimes a couple hours), the roads are cleared (plowed) and sanded regularly in the winter months. Highway 55 runs along the river up a beautiful canyon, you will struggle to keep your eyes on the road.
The I-15 last year was closed for one whole day. I drive from Boise to Idaho Falls several times during the holiday months to visit family and my advice to you is watch the road report. It gives advisories of icy conditions, drifting of snow on the road, accidents and visibility warnings. You shouldn't have to worry about road closures in southern Idaho. I don't have much experience with nothern Idaho in the winter season...so no advice there.
Chains and all the supplies you listed are good to have, although I don't think you will need them if you just take it at a speed you are comfortable with. When I stared driving in the snow and ice, my dad's number one rule was -"Don't stomp on the breaks!" Use your breaks easy and let compression slow you. The snow level in northern and eastern Idaho in Jan/Feb is usually 2-3 feet (.6 to .9 meters) and the temp is usually -5F to 35F (-20C to 1.6C). As far as the vehicle, I don't think a 4WD is needed as long as you have a front wheel drive or AWD you will be fine. Someone responding to your thread mentioned a Subaru, I couldn't agree more, my parents bought one a couple years ago and they have nothing but good things to say about it.
I think a month will be plenty of time and yes, the time will be lengthened due to road conditions but you shouldn't expect long delays due to road closures (unless of course we get that super blizzard you mentioned). As far as detours, your route sounds like the best bet and detours shouldn't be necessary. I don't have any experience with GPS, I still use road maps so I am no help there.
I don't think you will have any luck finding campgrounds open that time of year, I haven't found one yet. I travel around Idaho quite a bit in the winter (hot spring hunting) and there will be motels, hotels, cabins, and bed and breakfasts along your Idaho route that you should not have trouble checking in to. If price is a concern, try and get to a smaller town for the night. I find the people more charming and the prices more reasonable in smaller towns, I think it will enhance your experience. You mentioned that you like to hike, while hiking isn't really an option in the winters here; snowshoeing is. Bring your snowshoes if you want a new twist to your hiking experience.
I wish you luck Mike and I hope I was helpful in some way.
Hello and welcome to the RTA forums Hansma !
Thanks for jumping in here with some informative and detailed Local Intel in your first ever post, you can't beat it and it's much appreciated here at RTA!
Enjoy the site and hope to see you around the forums !
Dave.