Considering a LA - Carlsbad Caverns - LA round trip in April with two young girls

Hello Guys,

It has been a few years, but I remember you were a big part in making our first US road trip a huge success.

We are (finally, after proposing during the first road trip in 2013 :-)) getting married next year, and we are considering to do our honeymoon before our actual wedding, in April 2020. We have two kids now, aged 4 and 5,5 at that point, and it would be our last chance to go "off season" before they are obliged to attend school.

My personal ambition was to visit the North West (Californa, Oregon, Washington, ...), but I quickly learned that is not the best period to make that trip.

Our ambition is to have a fun combination of nature and kids attractions. Last year we did Florida (with Orlando :-)) with the girls. Me and my wife were a bit 'underwhelmed' about Florida, but the days in the parks in Orlando with the girls were real highlights.

Therefor I was considering to fly in and out of LA, so we could visit San Diego (Sea World) and perhaps another park in LA in combination with a road trip.

We have never been more south then LA in the 3 road trips we have done so far, and this might be a good opportunity.

Do you think the chosen route of LA -> Carlsbad Caverns -> La is a good one? I would prefer to take two different routes to make it a loop.
Our available time will be around 27 days, and I would prefer to limit driving to separate 'shorter' drives with some stops in between.

Thanks for any advice, and other suggestions on different destinations are most welcome! I have been tinkering a bit on a trip from Chicago to Orlando and include the Smokey Mountains, but it might be a bit early in the season?


Thanks!

Regards,

Dimitri

Hello and welcome back to RTA !

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My personal ambition was to visit the North West (Californa, Oregon, Washington, ...), but I quickly learned that is not the best period to make that trip.

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Some mountain regions may have limited access but you could still make a great trip out of it. We did a lovely round trip from LA to Olympic NP that you can see here. With the time you have available it could be a nice relaxed affair.

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Do you think the chosen route of LA -> Carlsbad Caverns -> La is a good one? I would prefer to take two different routes to make it a loop.

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That could also make a lovely trip. With the time you have I would suggest you consider going as far as Big Bend NP as we did in this trip report.


There are just so many great options out there to explore, especially with the time you have available so I would suggest you search the forums for more information as well as the many road trip planning links at the top and bottom of each page. Once you find your own personal 'must visit' place(s) it will help you decide what trip works for you. Once you have decided where you are headed we can help fill in the blanks and answer any specific questions you may have.

Enjoy the planning, it's a fun part of the adventure !

LA has a number of great parks that the kids would enjoy. Among them, the ORIGINAL Disneyland (which is different than the Orlando park, smaller), Knotts Berry Farm, Universal Studios Hollywood, and Six Flags Magic Mountain.

San Diego has Sea World, but we also have a world-class Zoo and its sister park east of Escondido, San Diego Zoo Safari Park. Both are huge and have so many things to see. Though this thread about San Diego was started in 2011, most of the information is either still current or has been updated with further additions to the thread. Anything you need to know about San Diego, I'll probably be the one to respond to it ... I live in San Diego County.

I happen to agree with Dave, though; you could make a great trip with the Northwest or the Carlsbad Caverns idea. Your kids would love the cave in NM, and there would be plenty they'd love in the Pacific NW as well.


Donna

Thanks Guys!

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Originally Posted by Southwest Dave

Enjoy the planning, it's a fun part of the adventure !

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I agree, it is one of my favorite things to do once the kids are off to bed, and it makes me feel like the trip already started :-).

I am going to start with finding myself a good book and read some, plan out a first draft itinerary and see if you guys have any additions or suggestions. Thanks a lot in advance.

You are making me doubt though, if I should pursue my idea to head north or not! I finally made up my mind, but now I am unsure again. On the other hand, it is not like the trip will be off the table, it will be for in few years. Then the girls will be older, we will have to go in July/August (school), so the temperature will be better (more tourists though) but we could go on some activities that might be tricky with the very young ones (f.e. kayaking around Vancouver Island).

I am going to give it one more night of pondering, but I guess we will stick with the southern route. My wife (to be) really wants to visit Texas, and a happy wife makes 85% of the trip ;-).

PS: If anyone is aware of a typical "fair", that is something we have been pursuing but never found since our very first road trip. And now with the girls, I can only imagine the smile on their faces when daddy makes a clown fall in the water or mommy shoots them a huge teddy bear :-). If there would be one or more of these events, or a website where I can look for it myself, I could try to fit it in the itinerary.

Thanks!

I did find a website that lists fairs in the Western US. It looks like country fairs in Phoenix or Tucson might be your best bet.

Fairs are often more of a late summer event in many places, since they in many cases also have some agricultural events that lend themselves to harvest season.

Thanks!

I have a first rough draft ready, will try to work it out a bit more in detail the coming days and let you guys know :-). Thanks in advance for the help!

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Fairs are often more of a late summer event in many places, since they in many cases also have some agricultural events that lend themselves to harvest season.

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San Diego County Fair, AKA the "Del Mar Fair", is one of the exceptions to that statement. It usually starts in early June and goes through the 4th of July.


Donna

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Originally Posted by DonnaR57

San Diego County Fair, AKA the "Del Mar Fair", is one of the exceptions to that statement. It usually starts in early June and goes through the 4th of July.

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Yes, on the link I provided, there are quite a few fairs in California in May and June. When you're talking about places that have 12 month growing seasons, it's not going to be quite the same impact. (Although on that list, August is still by far the busiest month for fairs)

I'm sure the weather is also a big reason why many of the Arizona county fairs are held in April.

I have a question about these fairs, as I am having a hard time understanding what to expect. I have made my first draft (going to figure out a few more things before I post it), and it looks like our best bets are either Tucson, Yuma (if I take the inverse loop as I am planning now :-)) or a late fair in Santa Barbara when we are back in LA.

Anyway, in my imagination, a county fair is something with wagons and 'traveling people' who go from fair to fair and live in wagons or whatever. A bit like a circus, but different :P. But if I check these website, a fairground is actually a year round facilities with different activities?

I checked the different websites, and my feeling is that the Yuma fair looks the most fun and cosy, with a lot of attractions for the kids. That would imply I switch the loop around completely, but I dont see an issue there.

Thanks for helping me understand what we should expect from a fair so I can try to figure out if it's worth adjusting our itinerary or if we should let it pass. Looks like a cool occasion to sniff up some local culture AND have something the kids will love though...

Most County Fairs will have a traveling carnival with rides, games, and fried foods, with the circus like atmosphere you're looking for. They'll also usually have lots of exhibitions, especially with animals from young farmers, as well as flee market or other displays from local companies, artists, etc. There's also usually some kind of evening entertainment, like concerts or races or something along those lines.

The fairgrounds is just the place where it takes place. It's usually big enough event that you need a dedicated space. The rest of the year some of the buildings can be used for other events, shows, sales, etc.

Hey Guys,

I have made up my first draft, and I was hoping you could have a honest look into it. 3000 miles feels like a fair share of driving, mostly for the two girls. My goal will be to cut the drives into shorter parts of 1 ~ 2 hours with a cool stop in between. I am hopeful to find some cool stops with your great map wizard!

All suggestions regarding stops that might interest us, and more importantly the girls, would be highly appreciated. Examples I have found so far is Slid Rock Park and sledding in White Sands NM :-).

Thanks in advance!

PS: If I could find a way to include Sequoia, and if that is a good idea in April, that would be amazing. But I feel that that would be a bit much. Attachment 4902

Forgot to add: I am also considering to start driving already on day 1, so that we can split up the 5h drive to Kingman on 2 days. I assume there is plenty to do around route 66 for stops?

The route through Amboy and Oatman on '66 is pretty cool as you head to Kingman. You could still do it in a day without an overnight stop and add something down the way or just keep it relaxed. A night in Sedona could be rewarding if you got a head start. From Kingman you could take '66 through Peach springs and Seligman. The Petrified forest is probably best seen when you leave Holbrook for Albu to save doubling back on yourself which could free up a little time to visit Meteor crater and/or Winslow AZ on the way.

Hello Guy,

We finally booked our flight tickets, so it is official, we are doing another road trip!

We are strongly considering to book a campervan (with our 2 girls) so we can spend the nights on campsites rather then hotel rooms.
My personal favorite would be a campervan instead of an RV. I have no experience driving large vehicles, which makes me think I will feel more comfortable driving a (camper)van. The lack of room should be fine if the weather is not too horrible :-).

Does anyone have experience with these types of vehicles? Any websites I should definitely check out? So far I have been looking at the following:

- Escape Campervans

- Lost Campers

- Jucy Campers

Thanks!

Moderator Note: Please keep all questions about the same trip in the same thread.

Those seem to be the major campervan rental companies. Really anyone else would likely be a local company where you'd have to be careful about what kind of support they can provide when you're on the road.

Personally, I wouldn't underestimate the space issues. I've considered going that route, but wouldn't do it with more than 2 people. There are rooftop sleepers and other things that can expand the sleeping capacity, but those have always looked to be more complicated and cumbersome than I'd be interested in doing. That's just me though.

The other thing I'd make sure to pay attention to is the costs of all the extras. Mileage alone can get very expensive, very quickly. There was one trip I looked at using Escape, and they had a good base rate, but when I calculated out the mileage costs, it became more than I was willing to pay. There are also additional fees for bedding, cooking, and other gear that can add up - but also pretty common in the RV rental world.

When will this trip take place? Where are you going?

The reason I ask ... any form of a campervan or RV is going to be problematic if the trip takes place during the winter months, unless you are sticking to the southern reaches of California, Arizona and New Mexico where it usually doesn't hit 32F or below. Whenever you have water pipes and freezing temperatures, you may be in for trouble. However, in the summer, this isn't usually at issue unless you insist on camping at 10,000' elevation.

FWIW, I agree with Michael....I peeked into a Jucy van that was parked at our neighbor's house a couple of years back....small! There was a young couple that had come for a wedding, and they said they were comfortable but "liked to spend a lot of time outside anyway."


Donna

It looks like Escape has 2 models that would be suitable - the Mavericks and the Big Sur. They sleep and seat up to 5. It looks like the Mavericks is an older Ford Econoline and the Big Sur is a new Ford Transit.

As said, space could be an issue with a campervan but as your girls are young, doable for some people but not all. I prefer the space and facilities an RV offers and as you get a lot more open roads in the USA they are not really difficult to drive once you have adjusted to the charactiristics of the handling. One thing I have considered in the past, but have not yet done, is to rent an Escape type campervan and plan to spend every 3rd or 4th night in a Motel in a 'proper' bed with a decent shower. For me it's those nights around the campfire in the campgrounds that make the trips extra special, but it's not for everyone.

Hey Guys,

Thank you very much for your input.

@Donna: We are going from April 1st till April 26th, and we are sticking in the south, roughly (LA -> Santa Fe - Carlsbad - (Big Bend) - Tucson - San Diego - LA). Please see a more detailed itinerary in post #11.

I have considered, reconsidered and discussed with my wife about all options (car, campervan, RV, ...). The current situation is as followed, and I need your honest (as always :-)) advice:
Through a local traveling company (I never use those, I mostly book everything online) I got a great offer for a CruiseAmerica RV Type C25 for €2380 (= roughly 2620 USD). This includes the following :

- Campervan Rental
- Unlimited mileage + (= including a motorhome kit, 4 x personal kit and unlimited usage of generator if applicable)
- 4 camping chairs
- Enviromental Fee (5 bucks :))
- Vehicle Kit (kitchen gear)
- Damage Deposit of USD500

I was a bit stunned by this offer, as this is a lot below what I have been finding before, and a lot below what I found online directly at CruiseAmerica (USD4480) for a similar booking.
For the record: this is not some shady local travel agency, but a reliable, well reviewed company with a few offices around Belgium.

Anyway, budget being one of the factors, and as Michael stated, space being another, both me and my wife are currently convinced this might be a great offer for our family.

Here comes the question (sorry for the long introduction :-)):

As I assume travel time will be slower with an RV (which is OK), my wife is strongly suggesting to drop the Big Bend from the itinerary. I would hate to drop it, but I think she is right. This would lower the amount of miles drastically (more then 500 miles), allow a few extra days to explore the rest and limit the driving to acceptable miles per day, which will be more enjoying for the kids. However, before dropping one of the stops I felt would have been a highlight of our trip (luckily I am convinced there will be many :-)), I was hoping to get your opinion about the distances and driving times with an RV vs our itinerary.

Thanks!!

Note that this is a standard RV (motorhome), considerably larger than a campervan. It's 25 feet long, 8 feet 4 inches wide, and 12 feet high.

https://www.cruiseamerica.com/rv-ren...es/standard-rv

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As I assume travel time will be slower with an RV (which is OK), my wife is strongly suggesting to drop the Big Bend from the itinerary. I would hate to drop it, but I think she is right.

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You have to go with your gut on this one. Yes Big bend is remote and adds lots of miles to a trip but we were glad we done it. We covered about 3800 miles in 18 days which was a lot of driving and not something I would have done with 2 young ones. However if you are to cover around 3000 miles in 3 weeks (or more) on the road it does bring your average daily mileage down. Of course the deeper you probe into the other places you are visiting the more alternative places you will find while covering less miles.

The RV does seem a good deal but make sure you get all the fine detail such as insurance coverage and any other charges that will (or may) occur. When doing your costings remember that the RV will only do around 9mpg and there will be campground fees.

Hey Guys,

A more specific question: Could we take the road to Oatman with the RV? I read some mixed replies on different sites...

Thanks!

Also a general question :-):

Should I expect to end up rather in RV parks, or can I look for regular campsites? Without being negative about RV parks, I do not have the feeling most of them are 'charming' or a place where the kids can play around? Looks more like a parking lot where you spend the time inside your RV?

Or am I wrong? Any advice on where I can look for the right campsites, for example with a swimming pool or playgarden?

THanks :-)

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Originally Posted by DasDimi

Hey Guys,

A more specific question: Could we take the road to Oatman with the RV? I read some mixed replies on different sites...

Thanks!

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Yes you can. It's twisty in places but I've driven much more challenging roads.

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Should I expect to end up rather in RV parks, or can I look for regular campsites?

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There are many private run campgrounds that have pools and play areas, just search for them in the area you plan to stay overnight and compare choices. Any National parks you may visit I would recommend you book a park campground. They won't have play areas and pools and not all have hook ups and shower blocks but camping in the wilderness more than makes up for that. These are my favourite types.

The road into Oatman from the south isn't too bad. The road from Kingman over Sitgreaves Pass is the one that can be a challenge.

In doing the public camping threads for RTA, I discovered that the vast majority of public campgrounds do not come with swimming pools. Occasionally, you'll get one with a beach on a lake, or where there is a pool at another location in the park. Those are in the minority, though.

When we were camping in a tent or RV, our girls would always make their own fun if there was no pool or beach to play. They were rarely bored!


Donna

From the top of Sitgreaves pass.

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...s/DSCF8098.jpg

https://www.roadtripamerica.com/blog...s/DSCF8102.jpg

OK Great thanks!

I agree, I don't think they will be bored fast. But my favorite is, like Dave says, the ones in the wilderness. I will see if I can book park campings for Petrified Forest, Carlsbad, Saguaro, White Sands and Joshua Tree. That will be a fair share of wilderness camping right at it :-).

Apart from the NP campgrounds, should I strongly consider to book each overnight stop in advance? I really like the liberty of driving on when things go smooth or stop early when the girls want to do something else. Especially for the drive between LA & Santa Fe, that we are doing in 3 or 4 days, I feel it could be nice that we are not pinned on where we spend the night.
Or should I expect to have several popular campgrounds/RV parks to be fully booked in April?

Hey Guys,

I am still struggling with finding the right campground. I am trying to find something near Slide Rock State Park, but all the campsites in the area are still closed early April. Best I can find is Woody Mountain Campsite in Flagstaff, but it is rather outside the forest.

Should I expect to experience a lot of "closed" campsite in the period we choose to go? That might be a setback trying to find "wilderness" locations :(

We booked Rancho Sedona to visit Slide rock which is about 20 mins away. I can't tell you anything about it though as we were kept out of the area by a massive snowstorm in February and had to detour. This is the thing about the "to book or not to book" question as everyone has their own opinion and style of travel. As we travel on a tight schedule I like to book in advance and if things take a turn we find an alternative and sacrifice a nights fee. Although this was the first time it had happened to us and we were refunded as it was to do with the weather and not us failing to show.

I contacted Mountain Campsite in Flagstaff, and they are still closed (due to renewals) and also warn me for snow and bad weather in April? They said it would probably be too cold to swim the sliderock park anyway.

I kind of got confused there, as we choose the southern states to stay away from bad weather and have decent temperatures :o. If I look online at average temperatures for april, they are more then OK (to Belgian standards everything above 20°C is considered hot :D).

I assume I am correct that the temperature generally will be OK? I don't mind a few days of bad weather, it happens and you can't escape it, but in general I am assuming we will be able to spend our days outside without warm jackets and heating?

You should pack layered clothing and expect contrasting weather. For example Flagstaff sits about 780 meters higher in elevation than Sedona so the temps and weather can vary quite a bit. The Grand canyon south rim (near Flagstaff) can see night time temps dip below freezing and in Big Bend NP (for example) the temps could reach the 90f's.

You have to look at the altitudes. Flagstaff is over 7000 feet above sea level.

Thanks Guys,

A more general question:

At this point I have included two nights in Sedona, and we are coming from Albuquerque, which is a short drive. You reckon two nights is perfect, or should 1 be sufficient to enjoy the city of Santa Fe? Then I could perhaps cut up the drive from Santa Fe to Carlsbad Caverns in two :-).

Hello!

The area in, around, and between Carlsbad Caverns, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Sedona includes some of the most fabulous scenery and most interesting attractions in the American Southwest. It looks like your trip is pretty well set, but if you're still looking for ideas, you should most definitely check out our award-winning book, published last year. It's the first in a series, and it covers Arizona and New Mexico in great detail. Here's a link to the listing on Amazon, which includes a broad assortment of reviews, and enough of a sample (the "Look Inside" feature) to show you what the book is about:
RoadTrip America: Arizona and New Mexico: 25 Scenic Side Trips

Happy Trails!
Rick Quinn
(Ever-so-humble author ;-)

Thanks for the reply. I wish I knew sooner, I already bought a copy from Lonely Planet's "32 Amazing South West Road Trips". Looks like there are quite some parallels in both. I will have a look at your e-book, maybe I can find some extra gems. Nothing beats suprising my family with a fun stopover along the road :-).

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Originally Posted by DonnaR57

In doing the public camping threads for RTA, I discovered that the vast majority of public campgrounds do not come with swimming pools. Occasionally, you'll get one with a beach on a lake, or where there is a pool at another location in the park. Those are in the minority, though.

When we were camping in a tent or RV, our girls would always make their own fun if there was no pool or beach to play. They were rarely bored!


Donna

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We are bit struggling finding the campsites we had in mind. Our main goal we consider choosing for an RV is to spend time (read: evenings) in a nice natural setting while stargazing or enjoying a cold beer / hot chocolate close to a campfire. Those nights we spend in a tent in Camp Curry (Yosemite) or a cabin in Mammoth or Dead Valley where among the best we ever experienced.

Me and my wife (to be) have been looking for campground for the first part of our trip (LA -> Santa Fe) and it seems to be a challenge to find a campground in a natural setting at that time of the year. Many campgrounds are still closed, others feel more like parking lots then forests. Additionally we will be visiting some cities/villages, I don't see the advantage of an RV there. We found some KOA's that look OK, but more 'man-made' then an authentic 'into the woods' setting.

We are hoping to make a trip to the North West (Oregon, Washington, Montana, maybe Canada) in two or three years, and that trip will have to be in the summer (school holiday with the girls). Perhaps that is better suited for an RV trip then this one?

I am not sure why we are finding it so difficult to make up our mind, mostly we make it up way to quick :-). But we are not convinced (so far) we will have the experience we are hoping to have...

PS: I am aware that many of you will have done this (or a similar) trip with an RV and had a wonderful time. I am sure we will have a great time to, as most of it is up to yourselves. But I would like to know if our expectations of stargazing with a cold beer/hot chocolate around a campfire in a natural setting is correct, or if we should adjust that idea.

Thanks for your opinion!

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Originally Posted by DasDimi

Thanks for the reply. I wish I knew sooner, I already bought a copy from Lonely Planet's "32 Amazing South West Road Trips". Looks like there are quite some parallels in both. I will have a look at your e-book, maybe I can find some extra gems. Nothing beats suprising my family with a fun stopover along the road :-).

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Every guide book has its pros and cons. I like to think ours is a cut above the rest, in the sense that it takes a different approach. Mark added a link to the Side Trips Blog. There was one post in particular that describes my very personal relationship with travel guides: The Birth of the Scenic Side Trip

Rick

Hey Guys,

The biggest part of our trip starts taking shape, but I am a bit struggling with the part from El Paso to Tucson. One or two nights before arriving in Tucson are both options that are possible.

I really regret we cannot take the Silver Queen mining tour, as they do not allow kids younger then 5. Was something I was really looking forward to, but that one will have to wait :-).

Any suggestions on how to approach this part? My first idea was to drive from El Paso to Chiricahua NM on day 1, and then head to Tucson on day 2 passing Bisbee (worth the stop if you can't do the mining tour?), Tombstone and Fairbank. Optionally I am doubting to pass Patagonia & Titan Missile Museum. I personally think I would enjoy the Museum, taking a leap back in time to the Cold War. But I fear this might not be interesting towards my young girls :-/.

If I would squeeze in an extra overnight stop, where would you recommend? I have considered the KOA campsite at Lordsburg where we could rent a cabin and spend some time in the area. Too bad the pool is closed though :-)

Thanks!

While we can't predict what you and your daughters will enjoy, we can make a few educated guesses and give you a number of possibilities that you can pick and choose from. I will tell you that I live in Tucson and when my brother and his three daughters visited they loved Tombstone. It is a bit 'touristy', but hey, you're tourists! The other main attractions of this area, including between El Paso and here, are Native American history, early Spanish colonization, the Old West, and scenery.

If you're interested in Native American history, check out the Arizona State Museum, the Tohono O'odham Nation Culture Center and Museum, and the Pasqua Yaqui. For Spanish colonization and the Old West, some interesting sites would be the Tubac Presidio, Tumacacori, Tombstone, and Bisbee. While some scenic stops, outside of the desert areas, might include San Pedro Riparian National Conservation Area, Tohono Chul, and Mount Lemmon. (Yes, Tucson has a ski area!) I agree that the Titan Missile Museum is probably not going to be a wife/daughter pleaser, but they might find more interest in (and humor you in a visit to) the Pima Air and Space Museum of which the Titan museum is just a small (and physically separate) part.

Finally, the above lists are compiled by subject matter. You can easily do a bit of a couple of different pursuits each day by grouping them by location instead and still make steady progress towards your ultimate destination

AZBuck