England in May

Still just tossing this one around. Question, though - is it possible to get around the country using nothing but trains and buses? I really don't want to drive. I've been looking at the Britrail site and also the Visit Britain site makes it look like it's possible - but we all know how internet travel booking site paint a rosy picture.

Short idea list so far includes London, Norwich (friend there), Peaks National Park, Stonehenge and Bath and possibly Nottingham. May try to make this another literary trip following Pride and Prejudice and the Robin Hood Tales.

I'm trying to figure out if I can take two weeks off or not yet. Just got my vacation time straightened out and am also trying to make sure I have enough time for the Grand Tetons in June.

I know this is vague, but decided to put it out here and see if anyone has good ideas. I'd like to go ahead and get my plane ticket booked and get over that initial heart attack soon.

Actually, May is my favorite time to travel in the British Isles. My latest such trip was last year at that time and I had a great time while never traveling much more than 100 miles from London. I did have a car, however, as I thoroughly enjoy driving those English 'B' roads. England does have, besides the rail system, a fairly good inter-city bus system, but I'm afraid you'll have to inquire locally to make the best use of it. Most towns are compact enough that once you get to them, you can cover them on foot.

As for Stonehenge, I think I'd recommend that you book through one of the outfits that offers tours from London. This is pretty much the only way to actually get in amongst the stones any more. During the day, the monument is fenced off, and it is only after it 'closes' for the evening that these tours come in with a limited number of people who are allowed into the actual circle. (Remember that England is NOT a classless society.) I've experienced Stonehenge both ways (not on tour, but long enough ago that one still could walk freely through the site) and to be inside the circle and touch the stones is absolutely worth it. Especially with the added bonus that, since the tours are in the evening, you get sunset as well.

One other thing. My heritage is Norman English. My last name is the Americanized version of the Anglicized version of the French version of the Norse name meaning 'son of John'. So Robin Hood was the bad guy.

AZBuck

Eh - my ancestry is mainly Irish (county Armagh), German (my last name is most probably made up, though), with a little English and Native American thrown in for good measure. So I can't really choose sides for or against Robin Hood. I'll be a impartial observer. :)

Good to know about Stonehenge. I did see something about backpack tours that would take you to Stonehenge and several other points along the way. I wonder how those are. Anyone have any experience?

I saw that AZBuck had mentioned them in his roadtrip report. The link on his page is broken, btw - here's the new one.

Is this a good deal? Looks like it would be 59 pounds or approximately $118 for a 17 day pass. Would this really be cost beneficial to me?

Back when I had no choice but use public transport I used to hate it. The trains were overcrowded, overpriced and unreliable. Once I had a car I was delighted not to have to use them - especially when the goverment privatised them and they became dangerous too. Thankfully, these days, they've undergone a thorough modernisation and are pretty damn good if you avoid peak times. Still expensive, unless you book online in advance, but they're mainly nice shiny new rolling stock on the major routes and not too shabby on the commuter routes.

You'll generally find public transport to be very good in the UK. It's such a small country and we seem to have endless miles of railway that you can get to most areas reasonably easily. Buses and taxis are very good in the major cities and you should be able to get a cab easily enough even at the most deserted of stations. As AZBuck suggested, there's also a couple of reasonably decent bus lines: National Express and Mega Bus

I don't know whether that pass would be good for you, I guess it depends on what sights you want to see and what it includes?

I've been to Stonehenge twice. Once as a (very young) kid where I remember being able to walk up to the stones and touch them. It was fantastic. I went back last year with a couple of friends from Salisbury. They had a pass from work which gets them into hundreds of places for free so we decided to pop down for a laugh. Well I wasn't laughing... it cost the earth and you couldn't get anywhere near the stones. I had no idea that you could get over the ropes (without getting arrested) and I would definately recommend that.

Personally I'd avoid Nottingham. It's okay but just an average northern city (unless you were visitng Donington Park, of course!) like so many others. Personally, if you were fancying the Peaks, I'd check out Manchester and take public transport out to the Peaks.

One place I would definately recommend is Edinburgh. You can fly up reasonably cheaply (if you book in advance -- you seeing a trend here?), take the overnight train (expensive) or even take the bus (not a good idea unless you get a direct run) and it's simply fantastic. Lots of touristy stuff to see and do and a great atmosphere. If you had a car (you could rent one there) then there is some gorgeous scenery in the vicinity.

Back to London and that is chockablock full of sights. Outer London is a bit of a hell hole if truth be told but central London is very cool. Be sure to take a ride on the London Eye (ignore how much it costs, it has to be done) then have lunch in St Katherines Dock before taking the riverboat (take one of the touristy ones with the commentary) down into Docklands. It's coming on a treat down there and is well worth a visit.

Transport in London is simplicity in itself and I would definately avoid a car there. There are thousands of black cabs, more buses than you can shake a stick at, the Underground is pretty good despite its critics and there's the Docklands Light Railway and the riverboats. You can even get an 'all in' travelcard for the buses, tubes and DLR which works out quite a good deal.

I'd be pleased to answer any specific questions you have if I can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lhuff

Good to know about Stonehenge. I did see something about backpack tours that would take you to Stonehenge and several other points along the way. I wonder how those are. Anyone have any experience?

---

That seems a fair price for what you will be getting -- if that includes the 'over the ropes' tour

Another couple of places that I like which are easily accessible:

Windsor - take the train or bus out of London and visit the castle and take a river boat ride. A cool town.

Wessex coast - I am sure they run bus tours down to here from London. If not take the train to Southampton or maybe Bournemouth and take a tour from there. It's a lovely area and there's some great scenery down there.

This is starting to sound really discouraging about Stonehenge - oh well. May just skip it this time and just check out the fake one in Texas at some point. And it even has the Easter Island Heads.

Good to know about the bus lines and trains. I saw one site that had fairly decently priced packets for American Tourists for the trains. Might have to really think about that.

I'm sure Stonehenge isn't the only Ancient Pagan site in England - I'm guessing that there are others that aren't as popular. I'll have to do some digging. Also - I think I'm more interested in the Romans than the Celts.

Oh - and the Natural History Museum is something I've always wanted to visit. Is that worth it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UKCraig

I'd be pleased to answer any specific questions you have if I can.

---

Oh don't worry - I'm sure I'll be bugging you to death with this whole thing. :)
Thanks!

Ok - I can already see this turning into a five month long tour of England at the rate I'm collecting cool things to see.

I really think that I'm going to stick to England for my first trip over the pond. Just to cut down on my possibilities. Unfortunately I'm a major history buff and the huge amount of historical sites that England has to offer is about to drive me nuts. I want to see it all!!!! (ok must take deep breath)

But for this time - I think I'm pretty much going to try to base myself in London except for what will probably be an overnight excursion to the Peaks and some of the surrounding areas.

Laura

Probably wise. It may be a very small island but, with every trip I take away from here, I realise just how much we have crammed into it!

London is a pretty cool place in its own right and you could happily spend quite some time there without getting bored. From the Cutty Sark and Greenwich, through Docklands, up into the city itself there is lots to see and do.

You could maybe split your stay into, say, three periods in London seperated by a couple of excursions. I'll see if I can find a suitable Stonehenge/Salisbury/Glastonbury/Bath tour as that sounds like a candidate for one of those excursions. Then return to London for a couple of days before taking a train to Manchester, have a look around the city, then maybe rent a car for a couple of days and go explore the Peaks. If you're worried about the driving on the wrong side deal this'll be the ideal place to get some practice in... and you'll get to enjoy it so much more that way too. It's like me hoping to see Yellowstone from a Greyhound bus... you'll just see so much more with a car really...

Stonehenge and Bath should both give you a taster of some of the more historic locations in the UK. Would you prefer a day trip like that or an overnight trip? I did see a cool looking three day excursion something along the lines of London - Windsor Castle - Stonehenge - Salisbury - Glastonbury - Cheltenham - Bath - London. But I accidently closed the window and now can't find it again! The only problem with that would be you'd need to stay in the tour operators hotels and they tend not to be such a great price.

Good Ideas Craig!

I like the idea of separate excursions. And ok ok - I'll really think about renting a car. If I get stuck, you have to promise to come and retrieve me or send someone trustworthy. :) Just joking - I'll be fine. If I didn't run over those stupid cows in New Mexico this summer, I should be ok in England.

Ooh - I missed your last post yesterday, Craig. That tour does look good and not too terribly overpriced.

Ok - I've really got to firm up my dates and find a reasonable flight out of this place.

Laura

Don't know if this might be of interest?

I was looking at Silverstone last week, but didn't know any of the other circuits. Hmmm - this could really narrow down when I head over there. If only America would get some steady drivers. We keep sending random people for a couple of races here and there. That would be why we don't have any points this year.

Here are some links to help:

Brands Hatch - nr Fawkham, Kent. About 40 minutes from Central London.
Cadwell Park - nr Louth, Lincolnshire. Middle of nowhere but a spectacular circuit.
Croft - nr Darlington. Way way up north...
Donington Park - nr Nottingham. Good if you did make it to Nottingham.
Knockhill - Scotland. Fantastic, fantastic place. Though so far from London that I've only ever made it up there once and that was because I was working and couldn't get out of it!
Mallory Park - nr Leicester. I'm not a fan. Too dangerous, have lost a friend there and that colours my opinion.
Oulton Park - nr Manchester/Liverpool. Would fit nicely with a visit to Manchester/Peak District NP if you had a car.
Silverstone - nr Northampton. I seriously wouldn't bother, horrible santised place. Typical F1 circuit.
Snetterton - nr Norwich, Norfolk. Handy for visiting your friend.
Thruxton - nr Andover, Hampshire. You'll pass this as you head from London to Stonehenge. If you were making your own way down there on a weekend this could work?

Not many calendars are firmed up yet but A1GP is at Brands and BTCC (the series I used to work in - some fantastic close racing and an awesome support package) is at Donington on the 1st weekend in May.

How is it? I found a pretty cheap flight to and from there on Delta.

It's easily my favourite airport for flying out of (Heathrow is faaar too big and it takes for ever to taxi to the runway, and then you have to queue for a slot). Gatwick seems perfectly sized to me and a lot more relaxed. Transport wise you can take the Gatwick Express to London Victoria - it'll take you around 30 minutes.

Ok - I arrive at Gatwick Airport in London at 7:00 am on Wednesday April 30th and depart at 9:00 am on

Nice one - hope it didn't set you back too much?!

Hopefully a few others can chip in with their suggestions too. I don't want you to be restricted to 'my' roadtrip!

Can't say i share Craig's exuberance for Stone Henge. I went last year and wondered why i bothered going! Going to the South West is no bad thing though.

Personally if i was visiting the UK as a tourist i'd want to do a Lands End to John O'Groats trip. You will see literally everything now then...

Considering how stupidly cheap flights are, you might want do a day trip to Ireland, or even do a weekend at somewhere like Denmark in between . Coach trips to airports are barely anything, and the flights to Europe aren't that expensive either. Perhaops i'm giving you too much to think about but it really is easy to organise.

If you want stay in a particular area i would say the South West i guess.. you can enjoy the beaches in Devon and Cornwall, and it isn't too bad getting to Wales where you can be more adventurous...do some rafting or something

Thanks for the tips Englebert. I've never heard of the two places you mentioned, Lands End or John O'Groats. Could you tell me more?

Hi, Just looking through the thread & see you describe yourself as a 'history buff'. If you do go to the South West of England, and want somewhere off the beaten track, with History behind it, try THIS. It's a 13th Century Inn in the middle of nowhere ! It has had additons over the years so if you do stay specify that you want one of the original Inn rooms, (but mind your head). It's not Hilton Standard by any means, with floors and stairs that make you feel as though you've had one drink too many! The South West of England in general has loads of History to it, mostly connected to Smuggling and Piracy! If you do go there you may wish to visit Clovelly in Devon, HERE

The real trouble you're going to have is where to go if it's History you're after, we're overun with Castles and Historic Sites. London naturally has quite a few ! (Tower of London, Tower Bridge, Buckingham Palace, etc,etc).

If it's Romans your'e after try Lullingstone in Kent, they have the remains of a Roman Villa. And if you're in Kent you'd need to consider Leeds or Bodiam Castles, (I particularly like the latter) HERE, or even Rochester, it too has a Castle and was for a long time the home of Charles Dickens.

Best bet is to spend some time on the 'English Heritage' websuite HERE, or the 'National Trust, HERE.

Hope you enjoy it all whatever you do, and yes Gatwick is a better airport than Heathrow, (although you as you fly in to Heathrow you often see London below you, or Windsor Castle, depending upon the direction of approach.

Charlie

Those are great links. I think my biggest problem, as you said, is going to be pairing down my list of historical places to visit.

Laura

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lhuff

Thanks for the tips Englebert. I've never heard of the two places you mentioned, Lands End or John O'Groats. Could you tell me more?

---

They are either end of the UK, Lands End being the furthest South and John O'Groats North. Quite a trip for a photo opportunity, but Scotland has some stunning scenery to make up for it. The South West has absolutely loads to do... perhaps you want to stay in that region and experience something like the Glastonbury Festival.

I'm thinking that I'm going to book a hotel for the first three nights of my trip and just kind of wing it from there. I'm definitely looking into Paris for at least one day. I figure that gives me a day to realize that I speak no French and to get sick and tired of trying to find my way around . :) Any ideas for that day?

Laura

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lhuff

I'm thinking that I'm going to book a hotel for the first three nights of my trip and just kind of wing it from there. I'm definitely looking into Paris for at least one day. I figure that gives me a day to realize that I speak no French and to get sick and tired of trying to find my way around . :) Any ideas for that day?

Laura

---

you'll cope in paris with english [and maybe a bit of hand gesturing] just fine.
the eiffel tower,louvre,arc de triomphe[worth climbing the stairs to the roof if only to watch the cars beneath driving around the arc from about 7 different directions and battling to get off it] and invalides are all do able in a day,even on foot,and if you like walking it's the nicest way to see the city and some of it's parks.this part is fairly compact.there is a very good underground transport system for getting you close to the attractions. a boat trip will give you a glimpse of a lot of these attractions as well as notre dam.very nice in the evening.
with a little more time it's worth a trip to the sacre couer and montmartre,there are some good views of the city from here,and a lovely village square with restaraunts and some weekends,artist markets e.tc.
just below here is the moulign rouge but be warned there are some "adult places" about and it can feel a bit seedy,particulary at night.
have fun!

Just like New Orleans then? :p

Yeah, Paris is a must. Rather than getting involved in flying - which will involve a quite tedious journey out to Heathrow - why not hop on the Eurostar from its new home at St Pancras (right on the edge of central London)? I've used the Eurotunnel (the freight service where you drive your car/truck/bus right on board a train near Dover) but haven't used the Eurostar out of London yet - I've heard very good things and I'm looking forward to using it myself at some point.

Hi

Just to say that we live in the Southwest (Devon). Last year we went to Paris on the Eurostar for the first time - from London Waterloo before it moved to St Pancras. The service was very efficient and really quick, and we found getting around Paris very easy on the metro.

If you're going to be out of London, maybe having done a trip to Bath or further Southwest, another option may be to fly from a regional airport. Flybe, for example, do really cheap flights from Exeter to Paris. I did the return trip last year and it was great not to have to spend hours getting to the airport - or having to queue for ages when I got there. Trip from Charles de Gaulle to centre of Paris is also easy by either metro or bus.

Best of luck!

Patti

I've discovered that a lady I work with on a part time basis is a travel agent in "real life". So it looks like it's the Chunnel for me to get to Paris.

Dumb question - would it be too far out of my way to see Normandy while on my way to Paris? My grandfather was part of the 82nd Airborne and did one of his four jumps into St. Mereeglise (sp?). I would love to be able to see that area. He spoke of it often before his war wounds finally killed him almost 50 years later.

Laura

i would have thought it is to far if you are talking same day.
possibly[i'm no expert here] the best way would be to go to caen from paris,there is a link from the gar den nour[sp?]station to here through eurostar using another rail system
caen is home to the peace memorial and museum that tells the story of the landings,i don't know how easy it is to get to the actual beaches from here is.
http://destinationsen.eurostar.com/s...&loc_id=131870
if you scroll down there is a route map and more info on the caen memorial.
hope this helps a little.

Yeah, I concur with the suggestion of Normandy being tricky to reach using Eurostar. If you did want to go there then the best bet would likely be to take a ferry from Poole, Porthsmouth or Plymouth on the south coast and head to Cherbourg which is near to St Mere Eglise. I keep promising myself that I'll had down that may myself but can't help you this time as I've jut realised I'll be out of the country when you are here. Sorry!

I swear that every single person I know in England is leaving the country for the time I'm there. Oh well.

Looking a little more. Since I've added Normandy I think I'll go the ferry route (much cheaper) and then take a train in to Paris. It's starting to look like I may spend a couple of days in France now. So I guess I'll be hunting around town for a French for Dummies tape.

Lets see how much this changes over the next month. But here's an overview. France is out and I have booked a couple of things.

April 29th - Fly out of Shreveport, layover in Atlanta

April 30th - Arrive at Gatwick Airport at 7:00 am - Hotel Booked for April 30th- May 2nd.

April 30th through May 2nd - Explore London. My hotel is near Victoria
Station and appears to be close to many of the attractions I want to
see. Must sees are The Natural History
Museum and the British
Museum. I think I mainly want to wander around London and just see
what I can find.

May 3rd through 5th - Head north to
Peaks Distric National Park. The area includes several old houses
mentioned in Pride and Prejudice and just seems to be a pretty area to
explore.

May 6th-7th - Make my way to Bath and more Jane Austen sights. I kind of
want to see Cornwall as well having been raised on too many gothic
romance novels set there.

May 8th-9th - Back in London. Booked to see Michael Ball in Hairspray (I
won't believe that's true until I actually see him on stage) on Thursday
night. Other than that I guess it will be more wandering around London.

As usual - I don't have many details since I like to kind of play my trips by ear. But if anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. I'm interested in History, Literature, Car Racing, etc.


One thing - how is the bus system over there? I looks like I can wander around via bus for a ton cheaper than by train. Also - is it pretty easy to just go up to a bus station and get a ticket to anywhere in England, or do I need to pre-book that kind of stuff. I really hope not, but I will if the more experienced among us say so.

Oh - what local cuisine should I be looking for over there? All I really know about the cuisine is what I've read in fiction novels. Not always a good indication of what tastes good.

Thanks!

Laura

The history aspect…….

The National Trust is a charity which does an admirable job in the UK. They protect and open to the public over 300 historic houses and gardens, in addition to many other places worthy of preservation for the benefit of the general public.

Their website makes a good reference point for UK visitors if interested in historical buildings and places of beauty. Just put the area you are interested in – say Cornwall or Jane Austen - in the search engine for a result.

Jane Austen for instance.

Happy travels.

That's a great website.

Laura

hi laura, whereas you can travel quite cheaply between coach stations,and in most cases have no problems just turning up and getting a ticket you will find it's once your at your destination that the public transport system could make getting from a to b frustrating and thats why most brits [that i know anyway] don't use it. if it's an option car rental is the best way to travel once out of london.
the peak district is a lovely area but you will spend a fair time travelling up there and back to bath. personally i would stick to travelling west with your time scale.
the cotswolds have some lovely countryside and qauint villages,check out bourton on the water in that link,one of my favs. you also have stratford upon avon,shakespears home town.
if you still have the urge for a "cornish" experience but hav'nt the time then exmoor is a real gem,by passed by the crowds on there way to cornwall,it's very relaxing and some of the nicest views in england where the moors meet the sea.lynton and lynmouth is a popular spot with half the town on top of the cliff and the other down in the harbour linked by the old cliff railway and theres a fantastic walk[unless you have a fear of heights]along the valley of the rocks.the whole area is steeped in history.
sorry for going on but theres a couple of bits for you to consider,and one last thing if you find yourself at the tower of london whilst there,and you fancy a bit of quiet time,just across the road [same side of the river] and fairly well hidden are st katherines docks,a great place to take time out and relax and maybe a refreshment in the old dickens pub.
have a great trip!

Don't just stick to the same old touristy London. Spend some time out in East London, especially Shoreditch and Bow, where you'll find plenty of history of the working classes rather just king and queenery.
Must do: Columbia Road flower market on Sunday. Proper London event.
Try Borough market too and Spitalfields.

And if you want to experience an old-fashioned East London boozer try the Owl And Pussycat on Redchurch Street, E2. In fact go to the flower market on Sunday morning and then have a massive Sunday lunch at the Owl And Pussycat - you won't regret it.

You could try Camden and Brixton too - go off the beaten track.

I'm definitely not a tourist trap girl. Thanks for all the tips. I really haven't planned my days in detail because I want to try to find off the beaten path things when I'm over there. I definitely have some "must sees" on my list, but they are few and far between.

Especially thank you for the lunch idea. I try to avoid chains and fast food when out on the road and really like to find local cuisine when I can. I'll definitely be on the look-out for the Owl and the Pussycat (love that name).

Laura

You can't go wrong with a bit of what we know as 'pub grub' -- and, as you say, indpendant places are generally far better than the chains. Finding the good places can be tricky so don't be afraid to ask for tips at your hotel. It's usually best to avoid Brewers Fayre, Beefeater, Hungry Horse and Harvester places. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them but they're very cookie cutter as you may say.

I bet you're getting excited abou your trip now?

Thanks for the tips on the chains. Something else to stick in my little book of knowledge. Oh and I have no qualms about asking people for ideas. I'm sure that I'll annoy more than one person in England while I'm over there. :)

I spent Friday at the Louisiana Department of Motor Vehicles trying to get a new drivers license. That's always fun, at least they didn't charge me. In a bizarre attempt to save money they printed all new licenses and renewals on cheap paper that fades over time. It's fine within Louisiana and anywhere close by. They just know, but I decided that I didn't want to try to explain the issue to the British government.

I think I've got all the clothes I'll need now and have a pretty good idea of what I'm taking. I've even e-mailed my hotel in London, and shocker of shockers, they e-mailed me back within a day to answer my question.

This is going to be the first time I've flown in over 10 years and only the second time I've flown without a cello. So that's what has me panicking the most.

It also doesn't help that I'm basically driving to Mexico this weekend for a wedding.

Laura