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  1. #1

    Default Oh no, yet another Western US trip!

    Hi all,
    I’m Simon from South Wales in the UK (yep, yet another one) and I’m trying to plan a trip starting and finishing in LA and visiting San Francisco, Las Vegas, Yosemite, Death Valley, the Grand Canyon and at least some of the PCH between LA and SF.

    Now before I start with the questions (quick, now’s your chance to run) I’d like to say what a great source of information this site is, I found it about a week ago and have spent most days and probably far too much time in work reading through it.

    Right then, I’m not too sure on the numbers of people going as yet, maximum would be 4 – 2 of my mates are currently looking at whether they can afford it and the other keeps going on about wanting to go away somewhere but has yet to give a straight answer as to where (in fact I’m not sure he’s given a straight answer ever!) so the minimum could be just me as I’ve decided I want to go regardless of whether they go or not, the last couple of years have been pretty crap for me and after returning to work in April after the best part of a year on sick leave it’s the first time for a while I’ve been able to afford and actually felt like getting out and exploring the world again.

    The idea for this trip, like most of our schemes, came from a night in the pub, I was moaning about still not having gotten around to visiting the Nurburgring in Germany and how I’d have to go while I can still afford to run a car worth taking there, as we’re all single again it soon expanded into doing a trip we’d always fancied doing but couldn’t afford to do when we were younger.

    Ideally I’d be looking to go in September although this may be too soon for 2 of them to be able to afford to go and waiting for them to save up to go would mean a delay until May at the earliest as a colleague of one of them is due to go off on maternity leave at the end of September dropping his chances of being able to take enough time off work to be able to go to pretty much none.

    Anyway, back to the whole point of this post – the roadtrip.
    As I mentioned above we’re looking at doing a loop from LA and I’ve roughly allowed 14 nights to do it in, although I’m willing to up the length of time if needs be.

    Now I started off looking at doing the trip in a Corvette or a Mustang but the cost of rental for that length of time plus the thought of 4 not exactly small blokes in a coupe (renting 2 Vettes is a non-starter) for hours at a time plus luggage wasn’t good so then I thought if I can’t have a car that’ll excite the petrol, sorry, gas in my veins then what about something that could be fun in other ways – an RV. Wondering whether they’d go for that idea I sent an email out suggesting it and the first reply I got back almost immediately was “What, like the Good Ole Boys in the Blues Brothers? Cool”

    My first draft of an itinerary is (I’ve included driving times as given by MS Streets & Trips):
    Day 1 – Fly into LA, spend night in hotel
    Day 2 – Pick up RV
    Days 3 & 4 – Sightseeing
    Day 5 – Head for Vegas in the morning, arrive at some point in the afternoon, park up at campsite and have a look around (4hrs approx)
    Day 6 – Drive to the Grand Canyon via Hoover Dam (4h21m) and stay overnight at GC
    Day 7 – Head back to Vegas (4h21m)
    Day 8 – Head for Death Valley (2h25m) and stop overnight
    Day 9 – Drive to Yosemite via Tioga Pass (5h21m)
    Day 10 – Spend morning looking around then head for SF in the afternoon (3h50m)
    Days 11 & 12 – Sightseeing in SF
    Days 13 & 14 – Drive down PCH to LA, ideally spending the night of Day 14 in a camp sight in LA so don’t have far to go to return RV the next day.
    Day 15 – Return RV and fly home.

    I’m not too worried about driving an RV as I’ve driven vans in this country that are the best part of 20ft long and down some country lanes that were so narrow that both mirrors were brushing against the hedges on either side. Plus I drive a mountain road every day to get to and from work, granted not as high as the Tioga pass, but I have an idea what to expect and I’ve driven in France (the only country I’ve been to where you can be doing 85-90mph and STILL have an old granny in a Renault 5 inches off your back bumper trying to get past), Spain (all I can say is that they’re just insane, especially the ones on scooters) and covered 2000 miles in 2 weeks in Florida back in 2002 so have an idea of what to expect from the American roads (being able to turn right at a red traffic light is quite possibly the best idea ever!), however I’d like to avoid having to take an RV into city centres if possible.

    With that in mind I’ve hit a few problems with trying to places to stay, particularly in LA, that are close to public transport links.
    Vegas seems pretty easy – there’s the KAO camp ground at Circus Circus on the Strip and after reading through Southwest Dave’s trip I’ve got the Oasis RV Resort to consider too.
    In SF I’ve found a park that has a shuttle bus (don’t have the name of it to hand unfortunately), plus the KOA place to the north of SF doesn’t seem too far out and I did find a place that was claiming to be within walking distance of a BART station, although do you think I can find their website again, so open to suggestions of where to stay here.
    So far the only place I’ve been able to find in LA is the Golden Shore RV Park in Long Beach which looks nice, is near to the Queen Mary which I wouldn’t mind a look around and is within walking distance of the Metro station, unfortunately it’s route into Downtown takes it through Compton etc so I’m not too keen on that one, especially for getting back to Long Beach at night and I’ve been considering staying in a hotel and renting a car to get around LA instead before picking up the RV and maybe staying in Long Beach on our return to LA at the end of the trip although any other suggestions would be welcome.
    The other things I’ve been wondering about are whether I’ve given myself enough time at Yosemite and how long you would suggest spending there, I’d like to have a chance to have a good look around, especially if I end up going on my own as Yosemite is more appealing to me than LA and Vegas and I’m currently allowing way more time in both than in Yosemite plus where would be best to stay?
    Plus does it make any difference which way you go over the Tioga pass? Is it a steeper climb up going say East to West than doing it from West to East?

    The other option I’m considering is doing the GC as a day trip with one of the tour companies that fly from Vegas as it would cut out a fair bit of time behind the wheel – a good thing if I’m doing this trip on my own and possibly freeing up some time to use elsewhere or to hire a car for the day to head out to Hoover Dam and go for a drive alongside part of Lake Meade maybe.

    My other concern is the drive down the PCH from SF to LA and whether allowing 2 days is enough plus I’m not sure where would be best to stay overnight en route, I’ve been using MS Autoroute the European version of Streets and Trips for years and know not to rely on it’s estimated times, so any more realistic estimates of driving time would be greatly appreciated. I'm also planning on using it on the road on my laptop with a gps receiver, although, as I work in IT, I don't trust technology so would also like to get hold of some decent maps of the area, so again any recomendations you may have...

    Umm I think that just about brings one of the longest posts I’ve written for a long while to an end :) other than to ask would I be considered mad for considering doing this trip on my own in an RV if the other decide not to go, obviously I’d be looking at a smaller vehicle if I am on my own – we’d probably looking at a 30ft C class for 4 of us so we get a bed each and the best deals I’ve found so far are with El Monte through a UK based broker, plus the El Monte RVs seem to be less of a rolling advert than the Cruise America ones, plus I’ve found a few write ups on Cruise America that suggests they’re not very good and so far I’ve found nothing but good reports for El Monte.

    The last question I have is about fuel economy, just how bad is an RV on sucking down the old go-go juice? How far am I likely to be able to get on a tank of gas and are there any places on the route I’m looking at where I may struggle to make it between gas stations?

    I think that’s it, thanks in advance for any advice.
    Last edited by wibble; 08-05-2008 at 06:17 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South of England.
    Posts
    10,749

    Default A few bits for starters.

    Hi Simon, welcome to R.T.A.

    My first draft of an itinerary is (I’ve included driving times as given by MS Streets & Trips):
    Day 1 – Fly into LA, spend night in hotel
    Day 2 – Pick up RV
    Days 3 & 4 – Sightseeing
    Days 1-4] I would consider staying in a hotel whilst in L.A. I can't see any advantage in sight seeing around the city in an R.V. so I would consider picking it up on the morning of your departure to Vegas.

    The other things I’ve been wondering about are whether I’ve given myself enough time at Yosemite and how long you would suggest spending there, I’d like to have a chance to have a good look around, especially if I end up going on my own as Yosemite is more appealing to me than
    On your day from vegas across Death valley I would try and end up around the Mammoth area [as near to Lee Vining as poss] and get an early start over Tioga pass, allow a lot of time for this mountainous road, not only is it twisty and slow going [but not bad] you will want to stop for the views along the way. If it's possible to spend an extra night here, then I would.

    The other option I’m considering is doing the GC as a day trip with one of the tour companies that fly from Vegas as it would cut out a fair bit of time behind the wheel.
    It would save time and a long drive just for one night at the Canyon, and it could be used at Yosemite,but that sunset and sunrise, oh boy!

    My other concern is the drive down the PCH from SF to LA and whether allowing 2 days is enough
    If you mean hugging the coast on route 1 than another night is going to be better to get the chance to take it all in, especially as it will be slow going and quite a work out in the R.V.

    realistic estimates of driving time would be greatly appreciated.
    Mapping systems won't allow for any type of stops such as re-fuelling, lunch, sight seeing, bathroom etc and will not take into consideration city traffic or the fact you are hauling a 30ft R.V. over mountain passes, so don't be fooled.

    would I be considered mad for considering doing this trip on my own in an RV if the other decide not to go,
    Not worth it. you would be much better off renting a compact car and using hotels that would work out a whole lot cheaper.

    looking at a 30ft C class for 4 of us so we get a bed each and the best deals I’ve found so far are with El Monte through a UK based broker
    Ideal size for four people, just keep an eye out for any special deals, and make sure you carefully add all the extras on to the price, these normally include: Extra mileage, Bedding kits, Kitchen kits,Preparation fees and Insurance Waivers.

    The last question I have is about fuel economy, just how bad is an RV on sucking down the old go-go juice?
    We averaged 9.5 m.p.g with that type of vehicle. No problems finding gas but if you got half a tank and see a station then fill it up.

    The Oasis in Vegas was great and only a $20 cab fare to the strip.

    For camping in Yosemite or other N.P's use there website. It's highly recommended as once you have parked up you can use the free shuttle bus system.

    Once you've picked your way through that and got a clearer picture come back and we can help you "fine tune" your trip.

    Dave
    Last edited by Southwest Dave; 08-05-2008 at 07:33 AM. Reason: clarity

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Green County, Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,067

    Default choices

    Welcome to the RTA Forum!

    I know its got to be hard trying to plan out a trip like this with so many of the important details - like how many are going - still up in the air.

    I would certainly agree with Dave that if it just ends up being you, then an RV would be way too much and too expensive. I would also say that even if you end up going with 3 other people, taking an RV mights still not be your best bet.

    Los Angeles really isn't a good city to try and get around via public transportation. This thread should give you a bit of an idea of how sprawling the area is. Las Vegas and San Francisco are a little easier to use public transit, but even there, having a car would make getting round a bit more simple.

    Since a good portion of your trip would be within those 3 cities, and since you plan to be on the move so much, I think that going with a regular rental car and motels might still end up being the easier and more economical choice for your trip. Of course, an RV trip is an experience in and of itself, so if that is what you are really looking for, then by all means, go for it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Washington state coast/Olympic Peninsula
    Posts
    3,318

    Default You've put a lot of thought into this trip!

    Quote Originally Posted by wibble View Post
    Now I started off looking at doing the trip in a Corvette or a Mustang...
    If it's just 1 or 2 of you that end up doing this trip, why not get the 'vette or 'stang? It would probably end up less expensive than the RV and would be a lot more fun to drive, imho. BTW, I totally agree that RVs make far more sense when people are focusing on national park and other rural settings. When your focus is the cities, a car is usually much better. And, even with four of you, it would still be cheaper in most cases to get a car and stay in motels. Of course, you could still camp if you want with a tent instead. But, then again, if the RV is part of the experience you're seeking, cost be danged!

    My first draft of an itinerary is (Iíve included driving times as given by MS Streets & Trips):
    S&T is notorious for under-estimating the time it takes to get from A to B. We generally agree that the best way to figure travel time is to take the miles and divide by 57mph. Because you travel slower in an RV, you might want to use something more like 52mph to calculate times in that. These allows time for brief food/fuel/bio breaks but not for longer stops so you would need to add time for any anticipated longer stops in. For example, you can't do Las Vegas to Grand Canyon Village in 4 hours, 21 minutes. Especially if you're in an RV. It's closer to 5 hours to get to the Grand Canyon. And you also need to add time to get through the entrance. The day I went, it took us almost 1 hour to get through the gate. It's not always that busy but you need to allow time for such things.

    The other option Iím considering is doing the GC as a day trip with one of the tour companies that fly from Vegas as it would cut out a fair bit of time behind the wheel Ė a good thing if Iím doing this trip on my own and possibly freeing up some time to use elsewhere or to hire a car for the day to head out to Hoover Dam and go for a drive alongside part of Lake Meade maybe.
    Personally, I wouldn't. If you have a car, use it and enjoy the freedom. When you get to the Grand Canyon, there are a lot of need things to see and great lookout points at Grand Canyon Village. But I think I enjoyed driving Desert View Drive (I-64) the most. There are numerous viewing points along that route and each offer a truly unique perspective. It's worth doing, imho. And going to and from Vegas there are other places you might enjoy exploring. But that's me; I don't like to give up my freedom to choose my own stops so I'm not much of a tour bus person.

    Most people recommend two days from LA to San Francisco, at a minimum. I agree with SW Dave that more days is better for this phenomenal stretch of road.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks for the welcome all, appologies for the delay in replying, have made a few attempts but kept getting dragged away.

    Days 1-4] I would consider staying in a hotel whilst in L.A. I can't see any advantage in sight seeing around the city in an R.V. so I would consider picking it up on the morning of your departure to Vegas.[/QUOTE]

    From looking at the options it does look the best, there don't seem to be many RV parks near to railway lines etc and as you say, I can't see driving an RV through a city being much fun - I do like a challenge but it is supposed to be a holiday after all! Plus having a car first would give me a chance to get used to driving on the other side of the road again without the double whammy of that and getting used to driving an RV at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    On your day from vegas across Death valley I would try and end up around the Mammoth area [as near to Lee Vining as poss] and get an early start over Tioga pass, allow a lot of time for this mountainous road, not only is it twisty and slow going [but not bad] you will want to stop for the views along the way. If it's possible to spend an extra night here, then I would.
    I hadn't thought of stopping for the night further along the route, but it certainly makes sense, thanks.
    The more I look at pics etc of Yosemite, the more convinced I am I could spend 2 weeks there alone, would definately like to spend more than one night there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    It would save time and a long drive just for one night at the Canyon, and it could be used at Yosemite,but that sunset and sunrise, oh boy!
    After looking at your pictures, I'm thinking it is worth the drive and an overnight stop.


    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    If you mean hugging the coast on route 1 than another night is going to be better to get the chance to take it all in, especially as it will be slow going and quite a work out in the R.V.
    I thought that may be the case, though from what I've seen of it, it does look worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    Ideal size for four people, just keep an eye out for any special deals, and make sure you carefully add all the extras on to the price, these normally include: Extra mileage, Bedding kits, Kitchen kits,Preparation fees and Insurance Waivers.
    The best I've found so far is with El Monte through www.motorhomebookers.com and their prices have the insurance, transfers, etc included, plus you can buy miles in advance and they're currently offering 1000 miles or all personal and vehicle kits free as a special offer. I got stung for all the extra insurance for a rental when I went to Florida in 2002, plus I was under 25 then too which didn't help, so it was the first thing I went looking for in the small print.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    We averaged 9.5 m.p.g with that type of vehicle. No problems finding gas but if you got half a tank and see a station then fill it up.
    Cool, did you make much use of the generator on the RV? Whilst looking about on the net I've seen someone suggesting that it can be more fuel efficient to run the genny and rooftop ac whilst driving than the dash ac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    The Oasis in Vegas was great and only a $20 cab fare to the strip.
    I've been looking through the pictures of your trip and it does look nice, I was considering the KAO at Circus Circus but that seems more of a big car park alongside the hotel especially compared to the Oasis!

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    For camping in Yosemite or other N.P's use there website. It's highly recommended as once you have parked up you can use the free shuttle bus system.
    Glad to hear that there's a shutlle bus system, do the other NPs have them as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    Once you've picked your way through that and got a clearer picture come back and we can help you "fine tune" your trip.
    Thanks, I think it needs plenty of fine tuning, although luckily, it looks like it's going to be delayed until May/June so my mates get a chance to get some money together and we get more time to plan it, although it does mean a long wait to go.

    I know its got to be hard trying to plan out a trip like this with so many of the important details - like how many are going - still up in the air.
    [/QUOTE]
    Tell me about it! After I've finished planning this I think I may have a go at herding cats, it'll probably be easier!

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Michael
    I would certainly agree with Dave that if it just ends up being you, then an RV would be way too much and too expensive. I would also say that even if you end up going with 3 other people, taking an RV mights still not be your best bet.
    Appart from sheer novelty value, you're probably right, although I still fancy doing it an RV and it does look like it won't be just me going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Michael
    Los Angeles really isn't a good city to try and get around via public transportation. This thread should give you a bit of an idea of how sprawling the area is. Las Vegas and San Francisco are a little easier to use public transit, but even there, having a car would make getting round a bit more simple.
    Yeah, I've been looking into the options and they do seem pretty limited, think a car to get about is probably the best bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Michael
    Since a good portion of your trip would be within those 3 cities, and since you plan to be on the move so much, I think that going with a regular rental car and motels might still end up being the easier and more economical choice for your trip. Of course, an RV trip is an experience in and of itself, so if that is what you are really looking for, then by all means, go for it.
    That's the funny thing really, I'm not really a city type, San Francisco I've always fancied seeing and there are places in LA I'd like to see plus Las Vegas is on the way to the Grand Canyon so it'd be rude not to stop off, I just thought that we might need 2 days in each in order to have time to get around. If we can get around the main sights of SF including Alactraz in a day then I'm happy to cut it to a 1 day stop, same with Las Vegas
    I allowed longer in LA as I thought that the arrival day could be written off due to jetlag etc, plus looking at it, it would seem that pickup times for the RV are in the afternoon unless you pay extra for a morning departure so thought that would be most of the day gone by the time we'd got the RV and stocked up on food etc. But having a car for the first couple of days and going for an early pickup could save a day as we could hit the road on the same day as we picked it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNW Judy
    If it's just 1 or 2 of you that end up doing this trip, why not get the 'vette or 'stang? It would probably end up less expensive than the RV and would be a lot more fun to drive, imho. BTW, I totally agree that RVs make far more sense when people are focusing on national park and other rural settings. When your focus is the cities, a car is usually much better. And, even with four of you, it would still be cheaper in most cases to get a car and stay in motels. Of course, you could still camp if you want with a tent instead. But, then again, if the RV is part of the experience you're seeking, cost be danged!
    As the date of the trip is being put back there's likely to be more than 1 or 2 of us, although I may go for a Stang whilst in LA, plus hopefully with everybody having more notice we may be able to increase the length of time we have for the trip so can spend more time in the national parks as well.

    S&T is notorious for under-estimating the time it takes to get from A to B. We generally agree that the best way to figure travel time is to take the miles and divide by 57mph. Because you travel slower in an RV, you might want to use something more like 52mph to calculate times in that. These allows time for brief food/fuel/bio breaks but not for longer stops so you would need to add time for any anticipated longer stops in. For example, you can't do Las Vegas to Grand Canyon Village in 4 hours, 21 minutes. Especially if you're in an RV. It's closer to 5 hours to get to the Grand Canyon. And you also need to add time to get through the entrance. The day I went, it took us almost 1 hour to get through the gate. It's not always that busy but you need to allow time for such things.
    [/QUOTE]
    I thought that may be the case, Autoroute, the European version of S&T, is very optomistic with it's travel time estimates.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNW Judy
    Personally, I wouldn't. If you have a car, use it and enjoy the freedom. When you get to the Grand Canyon, there are a lot of need things to see and great lookout points at Grand Canyon Village. But I think I enjoyed driving Desert View Drive (I-64) the most. There are numerous viewing points along that route and each offer a truly unique perspective. It's worth doing, imho. And going to and from Vegas there are other places you might enjoy exploring. But that's me; I don't like to give up my freedom to choose my own stops so I'm not much of a tour bus person.
    I'm not a fan of tour busses either, I tend to go stir crazy if I'm sat on one for too long, even though I'm quite happy to drive for hours on end!

    Quote Originally Posted by PNW Judy
    Most people recommend two days from LA to San Francisco, at a minimum. I agree with SW Dave that more days is better for this phenomenal stretch of road.
    With the extra time I now have for planning, plus possibly being able to add extra days to the trip, I hope I can fit this in.

    Thanks for the advice all, time for me to have another go at a plan!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    South of England.
    Posts
    10,749

    Default May and the Tioga pass?

    Welcome back Wibble

    The more I look at pics etc of Yosemite, the more convinced I am I could spend 2 weeks there alone, would definately like to spend more than one night there
    You most certainly could, although an extra night will make a difference to getting an overview of the park.

    After looking at your pictures, I'm thinking it is worth the drive and an overnight stop.
    If you have the time then most definitely, a nice camp ground at the south rim of the grand canyon and not to far from the rim.

    Cool, did you make much use of the generator on the RV? Whilst looking about on the net I've seen someone suggesting that it can be more fuel efficient to run the genny and rooftop ac whilst driving than the dash ac.
    Not sure on that one and not something I considered but I doubt theres much in it if anything at all and would'nt be worth it. You will find most rental co's charge extra for generator use, if thats the case then a def no.
    You will however need to use it in the parks with no hook ups, when cooking or heating water etc.

    Glad to hear that there's a shutlle bus system, do the other NPs have them as well?
    The Grand canyon and Yosemite do among many others [Zion, Bryce etc]
    but not in Death valley. Great free service and very frequent that takes you to all the main points of interest and start of walking trials.

    Thanks, I think it needs plenty of fine tuning, although luckily, it looks like it's going to be delayed until May/June.
    This is a critical time as to whether you will be able to cross the Tioga pass or not as these are the months it re-opens after the snow is cleared.
    Here is the official opening and closing times in recent years.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    You most certainly could, although an extra night will make a difference to getting an overview of the park.
    I'

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    If you have the time then most definitely, a nice camp ground at the south rim of the grand canyon and not to far from the rim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    Not sure on that one and not something I considered but I doubt theres much in it if anything at all and would'nt be worth it. You will find most rental co's charge extra for generator use, if thats the case then a def no.
    You will however need to use it in the parks with no hook ups, when cooking or heating water etc.
    Yes, I think El Monte charge $3 and hour or $5 a day for unlimited usage, which got me wondering as to how much we'd be likely to use it, I've seen on the National Parks website that most of their sites don't have hookups but I've also seen that they have "quiet times" when you can't use generators anyway. I may be worying about nothing as I don't know how much need there'd be for the ac - we never turned it off in the car in Florida but then we were there in September and it was 38 degrees and 80-90% humididty every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    The Grand canyon and Yosemite do among many others [Zion, Bryce etc]
    but not in Death valley. Great free service and very frequent that takes you to all the main points of interest and start of walking trials.
    From what I've found on the net that doesn't seem to be too much of a problem for Death Valley as most things seem to be near the road.
    Being able to park up and get on a shuttle for the other parks sounds great though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southwest Dave View Post
    This is a critical time as to whether you will be able to cross the Tioga pass or not as these are the months it re-opens after the snow is cleared.
    Here is the official opening and closing times in recent years.
    To be honest it's my main concern and why I was initially looking to go in September as it seems the better option in terms of the Tioga Pass being open and with the parks being quieter.
    I've been looking at having the route south towards Bakersville and maybe taking in the Sequoia National Park on the way as a backup option if the Tioga Pass isn't open, are the roads to and from Sequoia NP likely to be closed as well?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    9,358

    Default Each year is Different

    This link will give you information on the closing dates for several mountain passes over the last 6 years.

    AZBuck

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