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  1. #1

    Default A lot of questions...

    Hi!

    First of all, Iīm from Sweden and English is my second language. I therefor will apologise for the sometimes poor language and misspellings. If something is unclear, please ask.

    Me and my wife is planning to do a roadtrip in August/September 2007. We will start in New York, and the initial plan was to cross the country once. But, since the one-way-fee is pretty high (at least $500) and since we wanted to see so many different places, we decided to cross from East to West in the south, then up through California, and cross again from West to East in the north, to see Yellowstone, Mt Rushmore, the Swede-state Minnesota and the Niagara Falls.

    We calculate something like six weeks, and we know we will only have some kind of "US-express-light-trip", but itīs better then nothing. We have been travelling a lot in Europe by car and know we have no problem with go 600 miles in a day, and then see a great city for a day or two, and then go 600 miles in a day again. The tour is very roughly like this:
    New York
    Jacksonville
    New Orleans
    San Diego (Very long trips through Texas, New Mexico and Arizona)
    Los Angeles
    San Fransisco (The coastal No 1-way)
    Las Vegas
    Grand Canyon
    Yellowstone
    Mt Rushmore
    Minneapolis
    Niagara Falls
    New York

    But, this is gonna cost a lot, and my budget so far is as follows:

    I have from Google maps added 25% extra for all distances we are going to travel. I think that will be enough, since we donīt have time for some spectacular extra trips to somewhere else. First I added only 10%, but I like to be on the safe side. Anyone with an other opinion?

    Rent a Car costs $85/day incl taxes and insurances for foreigners.
    We prefer a big premium car, since weīre going to run 10,000 miles, and weīre not too small. The difference in price between an intermediate and a premium is not too big. Budget says 60 dollars more expensive in 42 days rental, and I think itīs worth it. Iīve been heard that I need SLI-insurance and LDW-insurance, which cost me $22/day. Do I need any more insurances? (We have swedish insurance for sickness, any accidents and any kind of hospitality need for our self).

    Budget gave us a price, un-negotiated on their website, at aprox $67/day incl taxes and incurances. But I know there will be parking fees, there will be fees for using the road, to cross a bridge, to use a tunnel and so on.

    A premium car needs more gas. Therefor I have calculated with 25 cents per mile. Unless OPEC, Al Qaida and other painmakers donīt do any very unpleassant, will that be enough? Does any car rentals have deals with gas companies, that will give you a discount when you fill your gas there? Even 5 or 10 cents/gallon will be some money at the end.

    We will sleep at motels not to far from the mainroads that we will use. I have checked some of them, and prices seems to be $50-$80/night + taxes for a room for us. I have calculated $110/night, so even if there is more expensive around Mt Rushmore, around Yellowstone and so, I think that will be enough. I have the same question about motels? Does any car rentals have deals with motels, that gives you $5 discount/night? Or, does the different chains often deals like "Sleep 5 nights with us, get the 6:th night for free"? That can be a lot of money to save. Has mostly motels and hotels free or cheap internet access if I bring my laptop computer in the luggage?

    Food is next post in our budget. We will try to buy soda, water, fruits and candy in ordinary grocery stores since itīs much cheaper than buying it on gas stations or truck-stops. We also plans to have breakfast that way most of the days. Weīve found out that we loose to much valuable time when start looking for a place to eat in the morning. Lunch will probably be on fastfood restaurants, and then try to eat something real at a restaurant at the evening. The budget is $85/day, will that be enough?

    I have an additional question about tipping, since we donīt have that system in Sweden.
    15% at restaurants it says in the guidebooks, but they also say I should not tip at McDonalds. OK, but where is the difference between a non-tipable restaurant, and a place where they expect me to tip them? Dennyīs?

    It also says I will tip at hotels. Is a Motel the same "tipping-object" as a Hotel? Should I tip the lady that clean the room after me and my wife has sleept for 8 hours and taking a shower? How much will I tip?

    Is it anything more I should know about tipping? Gas-stations? Parkings? Grocery stores? Can I tip with credit card? I really donīt have any idea and it makes the budget a little bit to roughly for me.

    The last post in our budget is "everything else". Itīs $70/day and will include everything like ice cream, CDīs, newspapers, postcards, souvenirs and doing laundry. Is it hard to find laundromats in US? Can you park a car outside? Is it expensive? Will it take long time? We donīt have laundromats in Sweden, so I have to ask.

    I donīt know so much about traffic in US, but I understand that speedlimits on Interstates are usually 65-75mph. I have calculated with an average speed of 45mph on the roads, for accidents ahead, for heavy traffic and for having time to stop and fueling, take a picture, visit a restroom and stuff like that. Will it be OK? (We will try to find motels on the "other side" of towns when stopping just for the night, so we donīt need to pass the city in the mornings rush hours).

    Is it easy to buy a cellphone and prepay for calls to Sweden? Will it cost a lot?

    How much extra equipment can you have inside a rented car? I mean, we probably will buy some kind of refrigerator for cars, so we always have cold drinks. We also have an GPS-navigator, we have a cell-phone and we have a computer that my wife can use for editing pictures and so during the drive. Will the battery and generator handle that?

    Thanks for reading all this. I will be very glad for every answer.

    Bernt Bergkvist
    Stockholm, Sweden

  2. #2
    RoadTripper Brad Guest

    Default Wow...

    First, Välkomnande till Forum / Welcome to the Forum! (Okay, I used an internet translator and it probably reads something way different, but I tried!).

    Second... I think I'll need some time to digest a bit of this post. It would be one of the longer ones I have seen in a long time. So, while I, and everyone else, pour over the questions and dig up some information, I thought I'd get you started with a link to some information for international drivers that you may find useful.

    So, let my start off by knocking out a few easy ones.

    I have an additional question about tipping, since we donīt have that system in Sweden.
    15% at restaurants it says in the guidebooks, but they also say I should not tip at McDonalds. OK, but where is the difference between a non-tipable restaurant, and a place where they expect me to tip them? Dennyīs?
    In short... no at fast food, yes at Denny's.

    The long version is if where you eat has a mascot that dresses like a clown, you food was under a heat lamp for 20 minutes before you even arrived, and they call your order number when it is ready... you don't tip. In fact, you may confuse the young man or woman behind the counter.

    Any place where you sit down and a waiter/waitress comes by and refills your coffee every few minutes, you might want to leave a few dollars. There are really no set rules for tipping, except maybe a few high end restaurants where everyone wears a tux. I've tipped anywhere from $5 on an $80 bill, to $20 on a $15 dollar bill.

    I've never tipped at motels, and never tipped at gas stations, since most are self-serve anyway (except Oregon). And tipping nearly anywhere else will most likely cause confusion. Tipping at a grocery store is actually not advised, since it might cause a security concern.

    Denny's restaurants allow you to tip with a credit card, and so do most larger restaurants.

    Basically, it comes down to if you feel you should tip, then do it. Otherwise, most places it either isn't expected or advised. Others might disagree, so take my advice on tipping as just my humble opinion.

    The last post in our budget is "everything else". Itīs $70/day and will include everything like ice cream, CDīs, newspapers, postcards, souvenirs and doing laundry. Is it hard to find laundromats in US? Can you park a car outside? Is it expensive? Will it take long time? We donīt have laundromats in Sweden, so I have to ask.
    Laundromats have been disappearing from the landscape. Many are hard to find, and increasingly are in bad neighborhoods, from what I have been able to see. However, the road-trips I have been on, I have never had to do laundry, so I'm not the best one to go into too much detail on.

    Thats about all I can dig up for now. Don't forget to check the links below about related threads. There may be some good info there as well.

    -Brad

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    9,358

    Default A Few More Answers

    Din engelsk är bättre än vår svensk!

    I'll try to answer a couple more of your questions. I like your plan to take a quick loop around America. While it will have to be quick, you can see a lot in that amount of time, and you can spend a few days occasionally in spots that really appeal to you as long as you keep a good overall pace.

    As far as car insurance goes, you should first check with your own insurance company in Sweden, then check with any auto club that you may belong to, and finally check with any credit card companies that you may plan to use. Any of these may offer some coverage on rental cars, thus reducing your overall cost for the car.

    If you are going to stop in Minnesota for the Swedish flavor, you should also consider stop in Wilmington, Delaware where the first Swedish settlers landed.

    As far as phones go, rather than buy a phone here (we do use different frequencies than European cell phones), you might want to look at two alternatives. The first is to buy a 'phone card'. These are available at most convenience stores (and elsewhere). You buy card for some pre-paid amount (say $5) and then you can use any phone to call internationally. The other option, since you'll have a laptop computer with you, is to look into some of the VOIP (voice over internet protocol) plans like Vonage or Skype. You would then make calls through your computer, assuming you have internet connectivity.

    AZBuck

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Washington state coast/Olympic Peninsula
    Posts
    3,318

    Default Jag hoppa det vi kanna hjälp du planera en stor tripp!

    I hope that says "I hope we can help you plan a great trip!"

    I think adding 25% more miles to your trip for sidetrips sounds adequate. To be on the safe side, I might make it more like 33% but I don't think you'll be too far off. Of course, you might track your progress and if you find you're driving more than you had previously considered, adjust your driving or your budget while on the road so you don't come up short at the end.

    The Budget website says that it's premium car is a Mercury Grand Marquis or something similar, and that it gets 18-25mpg. Gas is averaging $2.30 per gallon right now. So, if we figure an average of 20mpg, that is closer to 12 cents per mile than your 25 cents per mile estimate. Of course, it never hurts to estimate higher costs...I tend to do that too so I have a buffer. A great place to keep an eye on gas prices in the US is at the Gas Buddy website. You might keep an eye on it as you get closer to your trip. Then you can go to the Fuel Cost Calculator on this website to get a better idea of what expense this might be.

    I would suggest checking with the car rental company to see if they have any partnership deals with gas stations, hotels, etc. I rarely rent cars since I usually do roadtrips using my own car so I'm no help there. Some of the different motel chains do have frequent stay programs similar to getting frequent flier miles from the airlines. You might check out there websites and see what's out there. Just google the name of the chain to get to their website. There are so many chains, it's hard to make suggestions. Some of the lower-priced (clean but not fancy) chains are Motel 6, Super 8, Days Inn. Some of the more upscale chains are Holiday Inn, Ramada, Shilo, Marriott, La Quinta. Gosh, there's lots more. I'm sorry I'm not thinking of any others to list right now.

    I think your lodging will usually cost less than the $110/night you have budgeted. But budgeting high is good and will leave you money to do some extra playing with so it's not a bad number to work with.

    Watch for visitor centers at the state lines. Many of them have coupon books good for discounts on lodging and meals and some attractions. Sometimes your hotel/motel will have these in their lobbies and some restaurants have them as well. Denny's often has them.

    Your plan for grabbing breakfast food at grocery stores is good. I would suggest going a step farther and buying supplies for lunch as well. Most grocery stores in the US have good deli sections where you can get good sliced meats, cheeses, and other sandwich and/or salad fixings. This can actually end up being cheaper and, obviously, much healthier than fast food joints. And there's an added advantage....you can stop at a beautiful scenic viewpoint, park, river, etc. and have a nice picnic enjoying the scenery vs. being stuck in a fastfood line. To save funds when traveling, I usually eat most of my meals this way, including dinner, and then only eat out every 2-3 days. But, when I eat out, I usually eat someplace quite nice. Just a thought.

    As for tipping....personally, I don't consider it an option. Most food service workers make very low wages and depend on their tips. Like AZ Brad said, whenever you have someone waiting on you at your table (table-service), you should tip. For good service, tips of 15-20% of the total cost of your meal is considered proper. If you get poor service, then less or none at all, at your option. I think one thing needs to be taken into account if you think you got poor service and that is....did the waitress/waiter work their tail off and was slow service simply a matter of not having enough staff available for the number of customers? I don't penalize the food service worker for a manager/owner who doesn't have enough staff available. I also don't penalize the table server for bad food. It's not their fault if the food isn't good.

    And, no, you don't tip at fastfood joints when you have to go to the counter to get your own food and clean up after yourself.

    You can tip the maids in the hotel/motel if you want. It's not as common but people do it for good service. If I request something extra or leave an particularly bad mess in the room for some reason (rare but things happen sometimes...once I spilled a pop all over the foot of the bed and left a sticky mess), then I will leave a tip for the maids. Like food service workers, they are very low-paid and depend on tips.

    If you stay in a nicer hotel with staff that help carry your bags to your room, you tip them. I think the standard is $1 per bag or so. You also tip the delivery person if you order room service. I think just a few bucks (maybe $2-4) is fine for this but I do it so seldom, I'm not really sure myself. Bartenders and cocktail waiters/waitresses are also usually tipped even if you sit at the bar so they don't have to bring your drink to a table. Again, just a couple of bucks is usually fine unless you have sat their for hours, then you might want to leave $5 or so.

    These are just guidelines. No one will arrest you if you don't tip. If someone has done their job in such a way to make my experience enjoyable or do something that seems above-and-beyond the call of duty, I always tip...and usually quite well, as a way to show my appreciation for their efforts. But that's me. Do what's comfortable for you.

    You don't tip at gas stations or grocery stores. However, if you have someone take your groceries to your car for you and help you load them into your car, you can tip them. That's a rare event but some stores do have folks that offer to do this. I never use them but, if you do, tip them a buck or two.

    You don't tip at a self-park place. However, if you use valet parking...meaning you give your keys to an attendant who parks your car for you and then brings it back to you when you want it...you do tip the valet. I NEVER use this service so I'm not sure how much you tip. I would assume $2-3 would do? Just a guess.

    If you pay by credit card, you can add the tip to the bill. Hope this helps. It is confusing.

    Some hotels have laundromats at their facility. I'm not sure how common this is.

    Hope this helps a bit. Keep asking good questions and we'll help as we can. Do you have any questions about your intended route?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1998
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    10,059

    Default Tipping: Another perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Brad View Post
    In short... no at fast food, yes at Denny's.
    I disagree. Tipping is a good custom and should be used anytime and anywhere to reward good customer care. I often tip the employees that are cleaning tables at fast-food establishments (I actually don't use those services very often -- but I nearly ALWAYS leave something). I prefer to give the tip directly to a person rather than leaving on a table -- but I use whatever means works.
    Any place where you sit down and a waiter/waitress comes by and refills your coffee every few minutes, you might want to leave a few dollars. There are really no set rules for tipping,
    On a basic level that might be true, but most folks tip 15% to 20% of the bill, whether that bill is a $10 haircut or a $1000 meal at a expensive restaurant for a couple of close friends.

    I can also tell you that if you are a good tipper and your travel plans include being in one place for a couple of days, you will be treated well -- there is something about "giving" that yields dividends in unexpected ways -- A generosity of spirit is always returned and tipping is an easy way to participate when in unfamiliar places.
    I've never tipped at motels, and never tipped at gas stations, since most are self-serve anyway (except Oregon).
    I ALWAYS tip maid service and for other motel/hotel services. Some folks leave tips for housekeeping when they check out, but since there are so many forms of work weeks I make a point of tipping every morning before I leave the room. I can just guarantee that the housekeeper will spend a little more time in your room that day.
    And tipping nearly anywhere else will most likely cause confusion. Tipping at a grocery store is actually not advised, since it might cause a security concern.
    That has never been my experience -- there is nothing quite as cool as getting an expected tip from someone while working at a job. You want to do something really fun -- tip your rubbish collector some time -- The smooth ones will make it look like "its all in day's work" but their eyes will tell a different story.

    Sometimes a kind word of thanks is far better than a monetary tip -- But being stingy is not the way I would recommend for any roadtripper in search of true adventures.
    Basically, it comes down to if you feel you should tip, then do it
    Not for me. I tip when I wish to reward someone's kindness and professionalism. "Should" never enters into the equation.
    Laundromats have been disappearing from the landscape. Many are hard to find, and increasingly are in bad neighborhoods, from what I have been able to see.
    Hmmmm. I have been doing laundry in laundromats while on the road for years -- Yes, sometimes they are not found in the trendiest neighborhoods, but they are someone's home neighborhood and you and often find ideas and tips about a new town that you might not discover on your own. The other option, which I use these days, is most chain motels have a guest coin-operated laundry room.

    Mark

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Québec, Montreal, Arizona, California, France
    Posts
    761

    Default Tips and trunk space

    Hi Bernt,

    Quote Originally Posted by berrafromsweden
    I have an additional question about tipping, since we don´t have that system in Sweden.
    Since you might want to cross the border into Canada when you visit Niagara Falls (the view is by far better from the Canadian side by the way), I'll add my two cents here. Just keep in mind that I am Canadian and not a USA-an.:-)

    Quote Originally Posted by berrafromsweden
    but they also say I should not tip at McDonalds.
    I believe McDonald's have an absolute no-tip policy? At least I'm pretty sure they have one in Canada.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Brad
    In short... no at fast food, yes at Denny's.
    I disagree, I always tip (minimum 1$) at fast food restaurants (exception made of McDonald's where no tips are accepted whatsoever) unless I get really bad service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Editor
    Tipping is a good custom and should be used anytime and anywhere to reward good customer care.
    I totally agree. The custom in Canada is to give between 15%-20%. I tend more on the 20% side. Bad service will be rewarded 15%, nothing more nothing less - no tipping, even if the service was really bad is regarded as terribly rude and crass around here. On the other hand, when I get good service, especially at restaurants or bars, I will usually give 25%-30%. In a nightclub, 1$ per drink is the absolute minimum. It would be a shame to give a fifty cents tip even if the drink costs 2-3$.

    Always give hairdressers a tip (15%-20%) in Canada unless they totally ruined your coiffure. Cloakroom clerks : at least 1$. Delivery guy : 20% but at least 2$ if the total cost of the delivery is under 10$. Maître D in some particular cases where you get personal service : 5$ or more. Hotel doorman on certain occasions : 1-2$. I rarely take a cab, but when I do I'll give the driver 20% (only 15% if he continues to smoke after I politely asked him not to do so OR make unnecessary detours) + extras if I ask him to carry my luggage. For all of the above, I tend to tip the same when I go to the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Brad
    I've never tipped at motels
    I usually tip at motels and hotels chains when I stay more than one day. For some reason I'm more likely to give a tip at a Mom & Pop operation even if I stay only one night. Although, if I stay somewhere and feel like I got la crème de la crème and an impeccable room I will leave a generous tip. I never tip at B&B's since it could be regarded as impersonal, unless they put an envelope in the room for that purpose. I'd rather compliment the host(s), recommend the place to friends and come back whenever I get a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Brad
    and never tipped at gas stations
    Most people don't tip at gas stations here, but sometimes they will when they get exceptional and courteous service.

    You can use your credit card for tips at restaurants and at some bars where they will let you pay the entire bill when you leave, but if you want to tip taxi drivers, maids, cloakrooms clerks, fast food joints employees, you better have cash with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by berrafromsweden
    How much extra equipment can you have inside a rented car? I mean, we probably will buy some kind of refrigerator for cars, so we always have cold drinks.
    American cars are usually pretty spacious and you can load them up with a lot of stuff, but if I were you I would try to make everything fit into the trunk so you won't have to leave anything in full view on the back seat (thieves). Just to give you an idea, I manage to put all of these in the trunk of my small japanese car (Honda Civic 2005) : a huge duffel bag, a laptop computer and camera with lenses, a sleeping bag, a camp stove and refill canisters, hiking boots and poles, a tent, a screen room, 2 jugs of water, a hiker's backpack, 2 small coolers (dry food), a thick foam mattress, a spare tire (full size), first aid kit, booster cables, a jack, engine coolant jug, windshield washer fluid, fix-a-flat canister, engine and brake oil, spare headlights, power inverter, cb radio, car shades and curtains, + a shovel and tractions aid in the winter and, eventually all the souvenirs I buy during a trip -- usually glass art, handmade artsy mirrors, paintings, posters, books, pottery, clothes and or jewelry -- and yes I did break a mirror once but I was lucky with the other stuff.

    It seems like a lot, but I try to use all the space I can, including the space on each side and in the middle of the spare tire. I used to have an American Car and the trunk space was pretty much the same. Since you will fly to the US and baggage sizes are limited, I doubt you will ever have to put up with as much stuff as I have to fit in the trunk anyway I am sure:o)) So whatever you will bring with you, you should be able to fit it all in the trunk with a little imagination...and a little pressure:o)

    As for the rest, I usually leave my full size plug-in-the-lighter cooler and guidebooks in the passenger's or back seat, hide my cds under the front seats and every other valuables in the gloves compartment (including cell phone). Eventually, my car always gets kind of messy : guidebooks everywhere and the exterior all dirty but I don't mind since a messy and dirty car will necessarily look older and worn out and therefore might not be as attractive to robbers. Maybe.

    You can find coolers that plug in the cigarette lighter in any K-Mart, Wal-Mart or Target throughout the US for ~40$ to 120$ depending on what you're looking for. If it is small and you have enough room in your luggage, maybe you could bring it back with you in Sweden afterwards.

    Happy planning!
    Geneviève
    Last edited by Quebec Gen; 12-28-2006 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #7

    Default Thanks!

    First of all: Thank you for all this information. Itīs very valuable to get information from people over there, who really knows what they are talking about.

    Second: Swedish internettranslators isnīt too good. We have so many ways to put words together and we change the order of words, and it suddenly means something completely different. However, most of it was understood.

    Third: If a driver smokes in a cab in Sweden, he would be fired at once, the drivers licens will be cancelled and some tip will be totally out of question. But, the world is a little bit different, and thats why people love to travel :-)

    I think I understand the tipping system now, and since many of you has different experienses I probably wonīt be shot, or sent to Huntsville State Prison, if I donīt tip all persons that has been expecting it.

    I will probably have more questions and wonderings later, when we try to finish our route and so, but for now Iīm really happy.

    Thanks!

    Bernt Bergkvist
    Stockholm, Sweden

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1998
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    10,059

    Default Las Vegas is going through that now

    Quote Originally Posted by berrafromsweden View Post
    Third: If a driver smokes in a cab in Sweden, he would be fired at once,
    It is a new day for smokers -- Las Vegas, long a haven for smoker's rights is struggling with that transition right now. I am a third generation Swede, -- you will find plenty of them in Minnesota and the northwest. Enjoy the planning!

    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Green County, Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,063

    Default Tipping, and Minnesota Tips

    Let me add one more thing to the discussion about tipping, sit down restaurant service is the one place where failing to tip is really unacceptable - unless the person providing the service is extremely bad. In many states, there is a separate minimum wage for waiters and waitresses based on the theory that they are tipped employees. While a fast food counter jockey will make at least $6-7 per hour his/her first day on the job, in many places, people who actually serve food will make as little as $2-3 per hour before tips. Tipping is always appreciated in any setting, but restaurant waitstaff actually count on tips to make up the majority of their pay.

    For the portion of your trip in Minnesota, are you planning to visit any places other than Minneapolis? I imagine you'd really enjoy one of the many small towns that really embrace their Swedish heritage. I'll try to remember some of my favorites here for you in the near future.
    Last edited by Mark Sedenquist; 12-29-2006 at 05:37 PM. Reason: fixed typo

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tel Aviv, Israel
    Posts
    9

    Default cars and laundromats

    I am in the middle of working on my own trip these days, and here's my two cents as a foreign tourist:
    1. get a AAA card. You can get your membership as soon as you land in the US, but we got ours here, at the local automobile club which is AAA affiliated. Cost us around $27 for year, 2 international drivers' licence included. Besides road service which you are also supposed to get from the car rental company, AAA gives you discounts in hotels, restaurant chains, provides you with free maps etc. so it's a well-worth investment.

    2. You have plenty of time before your trip and I strongly advise you to spend some time researching car deals. Leaving the fact that I work at a travel agency and get good discounts aside, for Israelis it is somewhat cheaper to reserve cars via a local travel agency, as the offers you get through the agency include the insurances you'll need, i.e waive of damage etc. The prices you'll see in American car-rental websites are really low but they usually don't include taxes and insurance. In any case, upon renting the car make sure you'll have in writing whatever is included in the price.

    3. Laundromats: I had no problem finding them in my previous trips to the US, in 1996 and 1999, but I stayed at the inner cities most of the time. Things have probably changed since. However, many motels do have laundromats in the premises so this will doubtly be a problem.

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